178LikesKannapolis Raceway Park
11-26-2017, 06:03 PM
#61
Did those rules differ from locally acceptable rules. The races where the mini's ran at Bush River were different than the winter series rules or were they the winter series races? I have no problem with making it any 21.5 or equivalent brushed as you mentioned if it can cut costs initially.
We have solid rules for US/GT/VTA/F-1 and are able to make local changes as needed that have been mentioned like alternate bodies or tires.
We have solid rules for our locally run 1/16 oval cars and there are established rules for the oval Legends cars that are gathering dust. There are rules for the oval cars that regularly compete at Easley should those participants choose to take a turn on what certainly would be a short track for them. We want a modified class for the speed freaks but that should be really simple. Anything under 21.5 is run what ya brung and hope it's enough. That leaves 1/12 scale which to my way of thinking should be a modified class like 1/10 mod to keep it simple. Then there are the WEC cars such as the ones that are based off the F-1 chassis as well as some others that are out there that would adhere to the any 21.5 rule plus any acceptable rules that are recognized. That gives us 10 odd on-road classes plus 3 or more oval classes of which no more than three will be run at any one event.
What do you think?
We have solid rules for US/GT/VTA/F-1 and are able to make local changes as needed that have been mentioned like alternate bodies or tires.
We have solid rules for our locally run 1/16 oval cars and there are established rules for the oval Legends cars that are gathering dust. There are rules for the oval cars that regularly compete at Easley should those participants choose to take a turn on what certainly would be a short track for them. We want a modified class for the speed freaks but that should be really simple. Anything under 21.5 is run what ya brung and hope it's enough. That leaves 1/12 scale which to my way of thinking should be a modified class like 1/10 mod to keep it simple. Then there are the WEC cars such as the ones that are based off the F-1 chassis as well as some others that are out there that would adhere to the any 21.5 rule plus any acceptable rules that are recognized. That gives us 10 odd on-road classes plus 3 or more oval classes of which no more than three will be run at any one event.
What do you think?
11-27-2017, 07:54 AM
#62
Mike, RC racers can't agree what color the sky is. So 'locally acceptable' is hard to say.
There have been so few "Mini" races actually held recently, and no track actually had any rules for the class. The TCS rules are the only nationally recognized rules, and they are a bit restrictive IMHO, at least on the motor. We tried to run a "box stock" class in the points series, but that was the biggest headache of all the classes I offered. It had the most cheating and crying about the slowest, most awful handling class in existence. lol. I would never do a 'box stock' class again.
The easiest thing in my opinion would be to spec the tires & chassis allowed, and put a limit on the motor (21.5/25.5/27T brushed). Done. The tires are the equalizing factor in Mini.
MC
There have been so few "Mini" races actually held recently, and no track actually had any rules for the class. The TCS rules are the only nationally recognized rules, and they are a bit restrictive IMHO, at least on the motor. We tried to run a "box stock" class in the points series, but that was the biggest headache of all the classes I offered. It had the most cheating and crying about the slowest, most awful handling class in existence. lol. I would never do a 'box stock' class again.
The easiest thing in my opinion would be to spec the tires & chassis allowed, and put a limit on the motor (21.5/25.5/27T brushed). Done. The tires are the equalizing factor in Mini.
MC
11-27-2017, 08:20 AM
#64
Originally Posted by NutDriver
I am only speaking of what I've read, but the latest iteration of the mini (M07?) seems to be head-and-shoulder above all of the previous cars as evidenced by its dominance in the TCS Finals in August.
Unfortunately there are so few Mini racers around here, it's not really an issue. If people want to go out and buy new M07's instead of racing what they have, it's hard to stop that.
The typical RC solution to that would be to have an "M03" class, an "M05" class, and "M06 class", and an "M07" class, with 1-2 cars in each race.
MC
11-27-2017, 08:25 AM
#65
I am 100% in agreement on the "can't agree" statement. That's why I like handing out a box(so to speak) and telling them to stay in it. I am always amused at the self proclaimed "hot shoe" that states that he will refuse to come to your track or I will sell everything I have before I follow these rules. My usual response is to thank them for their interest and show them the door. You often gain support from the masses by not letting the guy with the "I" problem show his fanny. The first sign that will be hung on the track gate will say, "no Ego's beyond this point". We are just not going to tolerate it.
As far as a box stock class goes, I have checked around with tracks that are doing it and they are having good success with it as long as they keep the established racers away from it. Sure, you will have some stretching of the rules but if anyone gets too far ahead of the pack or wins too frequently you just promote them to a higher level. I am all for developing skills either tuning, driving or both for that matter. I hate the skills that come in a can.
We have to start out with a structured program. If we don't then it will never happen. On the other side of it we don't want to negatively affect the investment that someone has made, wisely or not, in an attempt to include everyone and everything into the program. We will get enough initial flack from the rank and file on our selection of the timing system.
As far as a box stock class goes, I have checked around with tracks that are doing it and they are having good success with it as long as they keep the established racers away from it. Sure, you will have some stretching of the rules but if anyone gets too far ahead of the pack or wins too frequently you just promote them to a higher level. I am all for developing skills either tuning, driving or both for that matter. I hate the skills that come in a can.
We have to start out with a structured program. If we don't then it will never happen. On the other side of it we don't want to negatively affect the investment that someone has made, wisely or not, in an attempt to include everyone and everything into the program. We will get enough initial flack from the rank and file on our selection of the timing system.
11-27-2017, 08:35 AM
#66
Also, the Tamiya Euro Trucks are getting popular. Box stock w/ bearings.
In regards to your box stock & established racer comment, I agree. If/when I do another Points Series, if I did a box stock class it would be for kids & novices ONLY. If any experienced racers want to play, split them out into their own class and let them modify them for speed/handling. Within limits of course.
MC
In regards to your box stock & established racer comment, I agree. If/when I do another Points Series, if I did a box stock class it would be for kids & novices ONLY. If any experienced racers want to play, split them out into their own class and let them modify them for speed/handling. Within limits of course.
MC
11-27-2017, 09:49 AM
#67
I was just over on that forum and some are whining how some people just like to cheat because they are finding innovative ways to utilize what comes in the box.
If the experienced guys want to play ,let them. Nothing like having an "A" and a "B" plus the possibility of a "C". We always had the most fun with box stock. You run an 8 minute race and everybody is on the same lap. The suspense was unbelievable. There was absolutely no room for a mistake cause you couldn't make it up. It improved everyone's skills and we never had anyone feel slighted cause they didn't make the "A". They were pretty happy though when they earned their way up there.
If the experienced guys want to play ,let them. Nothing like having an "A" and a "B" plus the possibility of a "C". We always had the most fun with box stock. You run an 8 minute race and everybody is on the same lap. The suspense was unbelievable. There was absolutely no room for a mistake cause you couldn't make it up. It improved everyone's skills and we never had anyone feel slighted cause they didn't make the "A". They were pretty happy though when they earned their way up there.
11-27-2017, 10:19 AM
#68
Originally Posted by mleemor60
I was just over on that forum and some are whining how some people just like to cheat because they are finding innovative ways to utilize what comes in the box.
If the experienced guys want to play ,let them. Nothing like having an "A" and a "B" plus the possibility of a "C". We always had the most fun with box stock. You run an 8 minute race and everybody is on the same lap. The suspense was unbelievable. There was absolutely no room for a mistake cause you couldn't make it up. It improved everyone's skills and we never had anyone feel slighted cause they didn't make the "A". They were pretty happy though when they earned their way up there.
If the experienced guys want to play ,let them. Nothing like having an "A" and a "B" plus the possibility of a "C". We always had the most fun with box stock. You run an 8 minute race and everybody is on the same lap. The suspense was unbelievable. There was absolutely no room for a mistake cause you couldn't make it up. It improved everyone's skills and we never had anyone feel slighted cause they didn't make the "A". They were pretty happy though when they earned their way up there.
E.G....can I bumpsteer by adding shims to the steering linkages? Can I add 1M diff fluid to the diff? How about flipping the shocks upside down and filling them with heavy diff fluid? Or adding foam ear plugs to the diffs? and the list goes on and on...Have fun with tech! lol
MC
11-27-2017, 12:38 PM
#69
If it didn't come in the box with the car then it doesn't go on the car. Exceptions: bearings and maybe some lubricants. If you want to cut shims out of the plastic flashing that the parts trees have on them then go ahead. It came in the box.
There are speed secrets in every class out there lurking in the darker gray corners of the posted rules. I salute those that find them. Is it cheating? Therein lies the argument. It generally raises its head only after the hero driver in the "B" with an A800 gets bested by a perceived lesser driver in the "B" with a tub TC-4. Now that's cheating!!
If you think someone is cheating file a protest and pay the protest fee. We will tear them down and check what was protested. If you win the protest you get your money back and the cheater can take the walk of shame. If found legal then the protest fee is forfeit and you get hung with the crybaby moniker. How does that sound?
There are speed secrets in every class out there lurking in the darker gray corners of the posted rules. I salute those that find them. Is it cheating? Therein lies the argument. It generally raises its head only after the hero driver in the "B" with an A800 gets bested by a perceived lesser driver in the "B" with a tub TC-4. Now that's cheating!!
If you think someone is cheating file a protest and pay the protest fee. We will tear them down and check what was protested. If you win the protest you get your money back and the cheater can take the walk of shame. If found legal then the protest fee is forfeit and you get hung with the crybaby moniker. How does that sound?
11-27-2017, 02:08 PM
#70
Originally Posted by mleemor60
If it didn't come in the box with the car then it doesn't go on the car. Exceptions: bearings and maybe some lubricants. If you want to cut shims out of the plastic flashing that the parts trees have on them then go ahead. It came in the box.
There are speed secrets in every class out there lurking in the darker gray corners of the posted rules. I salute those that find them. Is it cheating? Therein lies the argument. It generally raises its head only after the hero driver in the "B" with an A800 gets bested by a perceived lesser driver in the "B" with a tub TC-4. Now that's cheating!!
If you think someone is cheating file a protest and pay the protest fee. We will tear them down and check what was protested. If you win the protest you get your money back and the cheater can take the walk of shame. If found legal then the protest fee is forfeit and you get hung with the crybaby moniker. How does that sound?
There are speed secrets in every class out there lurking in the darker gray corners of the posted rules. I salute those that find them. Is it cheating? Therein lies the argument. It generally raises its head only after the hero driver in the "B" with an A800 gets bested by a perceived lesser driver in the "B" with a tub TC-4. Now that's cheating!!
If you think someone is cheating file a protest and pay the protest fee. We will tear them down and check what was protested. If you win the protest you get your money back and the cheater can take the walk of shame. If found legal then the protest fee is forfeit and you get hung with the crybaby moniker. How does that sound?
My dad used to tell me to just drive faster than the cheaters can cheat...works for me.
MC
11-27-2017, 02:34 PM
#71
Rules do little to stop cheaters or rules benders in general. Rules serve to keep the honest guy's honest.
I remember the old SCCA system. I preferred the old IMSA system. We used to go to Billy(I think his name was) he would ask "are you legal" we would say yes and he would give you the tech sticker. Those were the early days during the BF Goodrich radial Challenge where there would be 85 cars entered and later during the Kelly American series.
I remember the old SCCA system. I preferred the old IMSA system. We used to go to Billy(I think his name was) he would ask "are you legal" we would say yes and he would give you the tech sticker. Those were the early days during the BF Goodrich radial Challenge where there would be 85 cars entered and later during the Kelly American series.
11-27-2017, 05:28 PM
#72
Originally Posted by mleemor60
Rules do little to stop cheaters or rules benders in general. Rules serve to keep the honest guy's honest.
I remember the old SCCA system. I preferred the old IMSA system. We used to go to Billy(I think his name was) he would ask "are you legal" we would say yes and he would give you the tech sticker. Those were the early days during the BF Goodrich radial Challenge where there would be 85 cars entered and later during the Kelly American series.
I remember the old SCCA system. I preferred the old IMSA system. We used to go to Billy(I think his name was) he would ask "are you legal" we would say yes and he would give you the tech sticker. Those were the early days during the BF Goodrich radial Challenge where there would be 85 cars entered and later during the Kelly American series.
If only it were that easy.
MC
11-27-2017, 08:24 PM
#74
Originally Posted by mleemor60
I didn't mention what Ole Billy would do when he found out you weren't. He had a nasty habit of checking things after the race when it mattered at the pay window.
MC
11-28-2017, 12:56 PM
#75
Managed to get ALL the bright green run off areas done today. Couldn't have done it without my wife who is willing to wade into the project to help it get completed. Tomorrow we will do our best to get the white trim done so we can start putting the boards up. That will leave the drivers stand and I got all the lumber pre cut yesterday. We might make that open house before Christmas yet.
If there is anybody out there that needs information on I-Lap transponders please start posting here.
If there is anybody out there that needs information on I-Lap transponders please start posting here.
