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Kannapolis Raceway Park

Old 11-25-2017, 04:59 PM
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Mini's will be run since they have a following in the Carolina's already. Whether they will be the beginner's or box stock class will have to be determined. There are a lot of things to be discussed before the first tire turns a lap but the top priority right now is to get it completed so that we have a track to run on.
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:07 PM
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I wouldn't recommend the Minis as a beginner's class. They are twitchy and not easy to drive, despite how cute they are. I have "modified" Minis, as do a lot of others around here. Box stock minis have some critical weaknesses which can only be cured with aftermarket parts.

The 4Tec seems like a solid platform as a RTR car.

Just some input,

Mark
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:13 PM
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Mike, what motor are you going with for your F1 class? 21.5 or 25.5?
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by scirocco14 View Post
Mike, what motor are you going with for your F1 class? 21.5 or 25.5?
I am running a 25.5 until it's too slow which may be awhile
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:47 PM
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We run 21.5 or 25.5 at Easley. Most guys are running 25.5's. It makes them easier to drive. Myself and a couple of others run 21.5's, but we have to turn them down a little when running on the asphalt.
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:59 PM
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Mark, point taken on the mini's. I would think the overall size of the track would negate using the stock one's. As for the F-1's, what does USGT/VTA call for? I agree with driver's choice for club events but for sanctioned event's I would stick to the published rule's. What was the "official" motor for Nashville?
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
Mark, point taken on the mini's. I would think the overall size of the track would negate using the stock one's. As for the F-1's, what does USGT/VTA call for? I agree with driver's choice for club events but for sanctioned event's I would stick to the published rule's. What was the "official" motor for Nashville?
The USVTA/USGT rules allow the track to choose. 21.5 or 25.5. The points will still count either way.

What Nashville used is irrelevant. It was held on a small, indoor carpet track. You have a larger, outdoor track.

I prefer/recommend 21.5 F1 because it is CHEAP. Any old 21.5 motor is too much power, so no need for 'motor of the week'. Once you specify 25.5 motors for F1, then the motor becomes very important and people start chasing motors, cranking up the timing and gearing to the moon to try and extract every last erg of power out of it. And burn them down sometimes.

That being said, the new 25.5's are almost as fast as the last generation of 21.5's. I can barely stay in front of the 25.5 F1's at Easley using a 21.5.

Just my input.
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:46 AM
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The Tamiya M chassis is such a cool class. M01 3 and 5 of course are front wheel drive kits. M02 4 and 6 are the rear wheel drive. I have a couple M06 VW beetles.
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:25 AM
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Good point again Mark. We certainly aren't interested in getting a "motor of the month" thing going. A 633 ft. lap should be able to use some of the 21.5 much like Easley so for the time being we will just follow the established USGT/VTA,F-1 rules package where it pertains to the open wheel cars.

Coffin9, the single most important thing for us to address for a while at least will be "access" to product. Any product. Since our local hobby shop closed a couple years ago we have to rely on mail order or visit shops that are a fair distance from us that cater primarily to the off-road crowd and are staffed by, lets say, people that aren't fluent in on-road competition cars, parts or anything for that matter. The nearest true shops to us are The Hobby Connection in Easley and Hayes hobby house in Fayetteville plus Ho-B-Max in Durham and King. That is what makes Traxxas look good as a source for "box stock" or beginners classes. You can find the stuff anywhere and their customer support is above average. All of this despite the recent attempts to play legal games over patents and such. My preference would be for Vaterra products but for the fact that everything has to go through Horizon I think. Either product provides very good bang for the buck usage in a top line "basher" market which can be used for entry level competition with the likely prospect of resale to another beginner when a progressive step up is wanted. I suppose that the Associated APEX could be factored in as well but I am not familiar with it enough to toot it's horn. Tamiya falls into this group as well but I am totally in the dark as to where you can find a ready supply of any parts outside of E-bay or TQ racing.

Until we get our feet under us I suppose we will see what shows up and in who's hands and group them accordingly at the entry level.

Beyond that, until the driver's stand goes up we will take as much input as possible and wait and see.
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:04 AM
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With doing some corporate and educational stuff with different cars, this is what I have seen.

APEX- uses allen screws to hold on the wheels. They can strip, are a certain size, and not anyone will have extras. Only come is brushless.

Vaterra- good cars, not alot of adjustablility on the radio side to slow them down for a true NOVICE. Comes in brushed or brushless.

Traxxas- Traxxas always durable, great amount of adjustments on radio and speedo. They stand behind there stuff. Battery and charger sold separately. Uses the traxxas ID plug, but can be changed. comes in brushed.

Novices, brushless if usual to much power, not fun when they are sliding all over the place and crashing/breaking.

Mark, I agree on the F1 motor, after just moving and all, i will be picking stuff up and racing again with you all. Usvta and usgt, 4tec. I think these would be solid classes for the road course.

Bill
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Coffin9 View Post
The Tamiya M chassis is such a cool class. M01 3 and 5 of course are front wheel drive kits. M02 4 and 6 are the rear wheel drive. I have a couple M06 VW beetles.
Tamiya has a new M07 FWD Mini out, and apparently it is very good.

Here's my M06 Beetle. And M05 Mini Cooper

MC
Attached Thumbnails Kannapolis Raceway Park-beetle2.jpg   Kannapolis Raceway Park-18274807_10212889067961032_1843144356935182488_n.jpg  

Last edited by scirocco14; 11-26-2017 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:26 AM
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Knuckles, great info. Your APEX comments are enough to eliminate it from contention. The plan is of course to advance drivers not necessarily mechanics. I am partial to the Vaterra's because of their durability but also the Traxxas for the same reason with the exception of the 12T motor which is iffy so which ever way we go we will have an alternate motor choice. I do like that either Vaterra or Traxxas come equipped with an ESC that allows for Lipo use. I don't want to push people into brushless to early but the batteries are another matter and the Traxxas ID system is a good way to learn the technology while minimizing the risks that come with the technology. Yes, the ID charger has a low amperage output compared to most others but we are talking about entry level and the possible resale value as people progress.

Mark, you know that I love the "Mini's" both real and scale and I grew up on VW's. Everything on road is going to race that we can build a class for. We would love to have to address the problem of too many different cars. You are probably going to get tired of being pestered for input.

Spent some time at the track this morning for meetings with the park owner. Made some plans for promotion in the future through the Kannapolis Recreation Park social media site and making arrangements for on-site food and drink service while races are being held. Although there will not be immediate on site electricity it will happen sooner than we expected pending permitting and cost.

Could have gotten some painting done today but have chosen instead to pre cut the lumber for the drivers stand. That way I won't have to haul so many tools to the track

Please keep the input coming.
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Old 11-26-2017, 02:29 PM
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With the Mini class, we found the stock brushed motor and a 21.5 brushless motor to be very equal. In our Points series, I won two races with a stock kit brushed motor and one with the 21.5 brushless. I found the difference in lap times to be negligible. The stock ESC will do either.

The ONLY things the Mini needs to make it reliable and drive well are two things: the metal steering rack upgrade (the stock plastic ones break if you look at them sideways), and a set of proper shocks. 3Racing sells a set of shocks w/ springs for the Mini that costs around $25 shipped. Any other bling just adds looks and costs, not speed. That is all I have done on my M05 and it is as fast as anything out there.

For Mini "rules" I'd allow either the stock kit brushed motor or a brushless 21.5. Blinky ESC (if someone wants to substitute the kit ESC, which actually works pretty well). Any Tamiya tire, and any body designed for the Mini. I wouldn't worry about a minimum weight (makes tech easy and the cars actually drive better with a little weight in the right place).

Just more input.
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:10 PM
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So there is a set of existing rules for mini's that is acceptable from Easley to Durham and Columbia and back? Everything you mentioned above is included in these rules? If so we run with it. Where can I find them so I can print them up? The simpler we can make it then the easier it will be to get and keep everybody on the same page.

You mention a few kibbles and bits to make the mini drivable. Outstanding! However, this brings us right back to one of our prime concerns which is parts availability. When the show starts I want to be able to hand a comprehensive list of reachable hobby shops and e-tailers that the average noob can go to and find what they want and be able to get it in a reasonable period of time at a fair price. If this thing takes off I would bet we might be able to have a local shop again that can stock the parts that everybody will "need" without the endless list of $30 quad copters and paint that doesn't work with lexan. In other words a racing shop. If you want a static model of the starship Enterprise you can go to Hobby Lobby or a particular type of tree or bush for your layout then there is Chuck's Trains.

I digress but nothing can slow us down or stall us out quicker than a racer watching cause he is waiting for parts. That is what makes Traxxas a standout. I wouldn't be surprised if I found them at Rite-Aid.

Keep it coming.
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
So there is a set of existing rules for mini's that is acceptable from Easley to Durham and Columbia and back? Everything you mentioned above is included in these rules? If so we run with it. Where can I find them so I can print them up? The simpler we can make it then the easier it will be to get and keep everybody on the same page.



Keep it coming.
Not sure if it's acceptable everywhere, but I based my Points Series rules on the TCS rules:

https://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/l...te_8-21-17.pdf

The TCS rules specify a REEDY 21.5 but I think that is too restrictive. Also, I would allow the stock kit brushed motor, since it's provided in the kit.

Any M-chassis, any Tamiya Mini Body, 20T pinion only, stock gear set. Any lipo battery that will fit (no grinding of the chassis to fit square lipos). 1300g minimum weight. Any Tamiya Mini tire.
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