2015/2016 WCICS Official Thread
10-07-2015, 10:19 AM
#151
Actually, after testing open 17.5 and then running 21.5 for a while, Tamiya went back to a spec motor that's very close to the Orca/Sky units. We went after those motors pretty hard, but Tamiya will not sell them in N America. They only have the, as handouts at TCS events.
10-07-2015, 10:25 AM
#152
Actually, after testing open 17.5 and then running 21.5 for a while, Tamiya went back to a spec motor that's very close to the Orca/Sky units. We went after those motors pretty hard, but Tamiya will not sell them in N America. They only have the, as handouts at TCS events.
10-07-2015, 10:41 AM
#153
Matt,
Lets not start any further confusion,
I suggest as a guideline to ANY racer racing in the WCICS series or any other series please take a few moments to read over the series rules you have to have a basic understanding of them. In the question that Matt raises, The RD does NOT have the Ability to decide if points will be given out or not given out. The WCICS rule states that their has to be a min of 4 cars registered and running in order for points to be scored. It does not say the class will not be run, that is the RD's choice or the Host club's choice if they want to accommodate the racers to run there cars. Does that make sense to everyone? The rule is there because our series does get very competitive and sometimes overall championships come down to issues like this. This rule is to ensure that no one can take advantage of small class turnouts at one event to scored high points. Is it perfect? Maybe or maybe not but it is what it is for now.
Remember WCICS is based 100% on volunteer time, If you guys want iron clad rule sets, then I suggest we look to you the racers to fund this one way or another, step up and volunteer your time to help out.
Korgae
A
Lets not start any further confusion,
I suggest as a guideline to ANY racer racing in the WCICS series or any other series please take a few moments to read over the series rules you have to have a basic understanding of them. In the question that Matt raises, The RD does NOT have the Ability to decide if points will be given out or not given out. The WCICS rule states that their has to be a min of 4 cars registered and running in order for points to be scored. It does not say the class will not be run, that is the RD's choice or the Host club's choice if they want to accommodate the racers to run there cars. Does that make sense to everyone? The rule is there because our series does get very competitive and sometimes overall championships come down to issues like this. This rule is to ensure that no one can take advantage of small class turnouts at one event to scored high points. Is it perfect? Maybe or maybe not but it is what it is for now.
Remember WCICS is based 100% on volunteer time, If you guys want iron clad rule sets, then I suggest we look to you the racers to fund this one way or another, step up and volunteer your time to help out.
Korgae
A
Here is my issue with the situation. A racer that qualified for the A main at that race could not participate in the A main. As the WCICS rule states, If a racer has qualified for a main, but does not start that main, he is awarded last place. If more than one racer does not start the main, they are awarded last place points based on their qualifying standings. So by someone bumping themselves up from the B to the A and finishing the A main, he is finishing ahead of the guy who couldn't start the main, throwing the points. My question is, how is this fair to the guy who couldn't start and qualified ahead of Mr. Bump?
As participating racers in a series that, myself included, a lot of people enjoy following, issues like these should be discussed openly.
Im saying this with peace and love.
10-07-2015, 11:33 AM
#154
can I own my own motor? offers to borrow are great and that's how racing stays fun people willing to help someone always.
I don't have a motor at all and I cant not practice or anything until I have a motor. I am having a hard enough time remembering how to get around a track I don't need to add in the first time I run something is on the Friday of a race weekend (I just did it in Saskatoon and it didn't work that well for me lol)
also I didn't say there wasn't work Im meaning jumping to a motor before its made and if it would be out for races was the mistake. the other mistake was posting clearly what the rules would be on july 1st then not doing it. as clearly the choice had been made then changed or it would not have been posted.
again as I stated in many posts before not bashing or knocking anyone and heck I think the idea is great it just didn't fall through proper for this season not anyone's fault crap happens hence why I started asking along time ago and asked again as the rules clearly state silver cans can not advance past the c main mind you I would be lucky to make it that far anyway. but we all want to compete as best we can, to be limited on your results for a motor because you cant buy your own motor is not right.
all that was asked was what is plan b no plan has been made clear by anyone with any title type thing as to what is to be done for races the motors are not out for. there was no c main in Saskatoon so even if I could have raced and done well (wouldn't have happened lol) with a silver can I would have been last because of my motor, the only ones I am able to buy currently
this is so stupid and silly I don't even want to race mini anymore as I cant have time on a legal motor to practice even. I did not post the rules would be 21.5 on july 1st if orca didn't have a motor then well into july change the rule to a motor that isn't out.
10-07-2015, 11:55 AM
#155
This is what someone sent me on PM:
Hi Ivan. Just wanted to send you a thank you for sticking your neck out for all the racers. I'd weigh in on this publicly but I personally have enough drama locally fighting favouritism amongst "the elite". It takes a lot of guts to stand up and bring up this issue and all us guys who would never have this happen for them appreciate it. Rules are rules and there should never be any grey areas. At least this happened at the first race of the season and can now not be used by any racer to make the A main. Again thank you
Sincerely a B main racer
Hi Ivan. Just wanted to send you a thank you for sticking your neck out for all the racers. I'd weigh in on this publicly but I personally have enough drama locally fighting favouritism amongst "the elite". It takes a lot of guts to stand up and bring up this issue and all us guys who would never have this happen for them appreciate it. Rules are rules and there should never be any grey areas. At least this happened at the first race of the season and can now not be used by any racer to make the A main. Again thank you
Sincerely a B main racer
10-07-2015, 12:03 PM
#156
Snopro I am sorry you don't want to run mini anymore. It was suggested previously (this subject has been debated about at length a few months ago) that people can be inconvenienced (especially new racers) when the spec motor supply has issues (this happened with the Orca combos a few times), but these inconveniences are far less problematic than jumping into an open motor, and many feel the same. Reading about the issues in the US, and the money spent to be fast, its a direction I hope mini doesn't have to take. But like I mentioned, a few hard working people gave us a solution, and I hope you can be patient enough to let it play out. No one wants a single racer to quit mini.
A solution to your issue is to practice with a cheap cheap motor, and borrow a spec motor until the spec motor is available.
A solution to your issue is to practice with a cheap cheap motor, and borrow a spec motor until the spec motor is available.
10-07-2015, 12:28 PM
#157
MINI MOTORS!!!
Good news everyone... the motors have finally arrived!!! They literally arrived this morning! 
We thank everyone for their patience while dealing with SkyRC in the production of the new spec motor.
ATD Hobbies has 50 and Great Hobbies will have their 50 very shortly.
For those of you on the fence about running the class, those worried about the 21.5 option pushing forth... We can all relax now and breathe a sigh of relief.
If you are in Alberta contact Joe as soon as possible; if you are in BC you can call me or email me.
For those of you attending the Penticton leg of WCICS on Oct 16, we're more than happy to bring them with us to the track. Just give me a call and I can tag it as yours so you don't have to stress about it at all!
Again, thanks for everyone's patience during this tedious process!
Amber
We thank everyone for their patience while dealing with SkyRC in the production of the new spec motor.
ATD Hobbies has 50 and Great Hobbies will have their 50 very shortly.
For those of you on the fence about running the class, those worried about the 21.5 option pushing forth... We can all relax now and breathe a sigh of relief.
If you are in Alberta contact Joe as soon as possible; if you are in BC you can call me or email me.
For those of you attending the Penticton leg of WCICS on Oct 16, we're more than happy to bring them with us to the track. Just give me a call and I can tag it as yours so you don't have to stress about it at all!
Again, thanks for everyone's patience during this tedious process!
Amber
10-07-2015, 01:30 PM
#159
Actually, after testing open 17.5 and then running 21.5 for a while, Tamiya went back to a spec motor that's very close to the Orca/Sky units. We went after those motors pretty hard, but Tamiya will not sell them in N America. They only have the, as handouts at TCS events.
10-07-2015, 04:14 PM
#160
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
I did not say the RD has the ability to decide if points are counted or not.
Here is my issue with the situation. A racer that qualified for the A main at that race could not participate in the A main. As the WCICS rule states, If a racer has qualified for a main, but does not start that main, he is awarded last place. If more than one racer does not start the main, they are awarded last place points based on their qualifying standings. So by someone bumping themselves up from the B to the A and finishing the A main, he is finishing ahead of the guy who couldn't start the main, throwing the points. My question is, how is this fair to the guy who couldn't start and qualified ahead of Mr. Bump?
As participating racers in a series that, myself included, a lot of people enjoy following, issues like these should be discussed openly.
Im saying this with peace and love.
Here is my issue with the situation. A racer that qualified for the A main at that race could not participate in the A main. As the WCICS rule states, If a racer has qualified for a main, but does not start that main, he is awarded last place. If more than one racer does not start the main, they are awarded last place points based on their qualifying standings. So by someone bumping themselves up from the B to the A and finishing the A main, he is finishing ahead of the guy who couldn't start the main, throwing the points. My question is, how is this fair to the guy who couldn't start and qualified ahead of Mr. Bump?
As participating racers in a series that, myself included, a lot of people enjoy following, issues like these should be discussed openly.
Im saying this with peace and love.
Let's keep facts as facts here.
Keep in mind, I am not WCICS executive, a WCICS club representative, or anyone who has any amount of say in what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to formal protests and regulations. I'm just a racer, who happened to be participating in the race in question, and who also was part of organizing the event.
10-07-2015, 04:30 PM
#161
Yes Ryan Rice technically, the lowest he should have finished was 5th by qualifying, but he finished with 6th place points because a racer who according to WCICS rules participated in a Main he didn't belong.
The facts according to WCICS rules the Mains are 50/50 not 60/40 or 70/30. If a racer is fast enough to be added to a Main, can you remove a driver because you feel that they are to slow for a Main? If the racers decide a guy is too slow kick them out of the race and if the RD agrees then it can't be questioned. Lots of grey area here that needs to be looked at.
The facts according to WCICS rules the Mains are 50/50 not 60/40 or 70/30. If a racer is fast enough to be added to a Main, can you remove a driver because you feel that they are to slow for a Main? If the racers decide a guy is too slow kick them out of the race and if the RD agrees then it can't be questioned. Lots of grey area here that needs to be looked at.
Last edited by Madulla; 10-07-2015 at 05:15 PM.
10-07-2015, 06:19 PM
#162
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
Yes Ryan Rice technically, the lowest he should have finished was 5th by qualifying, but he finished with 6th place points because a racer who according to WCICS rules participated in a Main he didn't belong.
The facts according to WCICS rules the Mains are 50/50 not 60/40 or 70/30. If a racer is fast enough to be added to a Main, can you remove a driver because you feel that they are to slow for a Main? If the racers decide a guy is too slow kick them out of the race and if the RD agrees then it can't be questioned. Lots of grey area here that needs to be looked at.
The facts according to WCICS rules the Mains are 50/50 not 60/40 or 70/30. If a racer is fast enough to be added to a Main, can you remove a driver because you feel that they are to slow for a Main? If the racers decide a guy is too slow kick them out of the race and if the RD agrees then it can't be questioned. Lots of grey area here that needs to be looked at.
To me this whole issue is being pushed by people who have motives elsewhere. Just my opinion.
10-07-2015, 07:38 PM
#163
I did not say the RD has the ability to decide if points are counted or not.
Here is my issue with the situation. A racer that qualified for the A main at that race could not participate in the A main. As the WCICS rule states, If a racer has qualified for a main, but does not start that main, he is awarded last place. If more than one racer does not start the main, they are awarded last place points based on their qualifying standings. So by someone bumping themselves up from the B to the A and finishing the A main, he is finishing ahead of the guy who couldn't start the main, throwing the points. My question is, how is this fair to the guy who couldn't start and qualified ahead of Mr. Bump?
As participating racers in a series that, myself included, a lot of people enjoy following, issues like these should be discussed openly.
Im saying this with peace and love.
Here is my issue with the situation. A racer that qualified for the A main at that race could not participate in the A main. As the WCICS rule states, If a racer has qualified for a main, but does not start that main, he is awarded last place. If more than one racer does not start the main, they are awarded last place points based on their qualifying standings. So by someone bumping themselves up from the B to the A and finishing the A main, he is finishing ahead of the guy who couldn't start the main, throwing the points. My question is, how is this fair to the guy who couldn't start and qualified ahead of Mr. Bump?
As participating racers in a series that, myself included, a lot of people enjoy following, issues like these should be discussed openly.
Im saying this with peace and love.
If we are talking about the same racer, ( that volunteered to remove himself from the event as he needed to travel home) then this is a separate issue that has also been revisited behind the scenes as it came to light during my investigation of the events. Infact a nice side note to this is that it was 1st pointed out by a WCICS rep that is in a different province then the racer above mentioned
I would have expected the question from his clubs rep.Basically this racer asked to be removed from the event after qualifying was complete and he did not feel he could commit to enough races to worry about points. The Host club and RD removed him from the event and the mains listing. When we started the review we discovered and corrected this according to WCICS rules. We will apply the points to this racer for last place in his main with a 'DNS" As per the scoring rule set.
Basically if you qualify and do not receive a disqualification from the event or series then you will be scored points. Plain & simple. ( * As long as the class meets the min required amount to score points )
Behind the scenes there is lot's of good communication between reps/exe's in form of emails and phone conversations. This was the point I was trying to make to Ivan, I simply do not have the time to address these loaded questions that leads to more questions. When a problem comes to light it is much easier and transparent for me to investigate and write a report that is then sent out to all of the reps to communicate directly with their clubs and or members face to face.
10-07-2015, 08:06 PM
#164
Let me be clear.
Heard from everyone at the race that the venue, people, atmosphere, volunteers, sponsors, etc were awesome. Not the issue.
Volunteer RD was new at this and did his best and was awesome. We all appreciated you time and effort. Not the issue.
Mark: 1:17:00 in the video: RD says “Up next we have the Modified Touring B Main….qualified 6th thru 10th”
Mark: 1:17:49 in the video: RD says “I’m told the drivers had a discussion and they bumped Josh into the A Main”
Not the RD’s fault. He was told what to do.
Here is the issue: Heats were posted according to the rules. 5 in A Main and 4 in B Main. Someone suggested to change the rules. The person who WROTE the rules was there. If the RD, being new to this was told by the person who WROTE the rules that’s it’s ok for 6 in A Main and 3 in B Main, the RD isn’t going to argue. The RD did nothing wrong. I repeat, the RD did nothing wrong.
Doesn’t need to be public? Sorry, I’m asking for Transparency.
WCICS RULES Page 14, paragraph 14:
“14. All heats will be structured according to a 50% rule to ensure the enjoyment of all
racers. When the number of racers in the last heat is at or below 50% of the max
number of cars in a heat, the last 2 heats will be split, and if there is an odd
number of cars, the faster heat will have 1 more than the slower heat. (i.e. if there
are only 9 vehicles for the mains, and normally 8 maximum cars run per heat, it
would be broken up into an A-main of 5, and a B-main of 4).”
Interestingly this is the exact situation presented at the race.
I was at the race 7 or 8 years ago when I first started where a young lady was put to tears cause “we needed to fill the higher Mains” when she was left on the drivers stand all alone cause 2 racers in the lowest heat didn’t want to run in the “slower heat”. This is why we have the 50/50 rule to fill the Mains. That’s why rules are in place to not to let this happen again. Incidentally, the person who WROTE the rules was at this race too.
I appreciate your volunteer time. I guess it was easier if I just asked on the forum: Can you tell me what happened at the last WCICS race about an entitled racer bumping himself up from the B to the A Main and how you handled it? Would you have answered it then? Can you answer that now?
I’m going to take a guess but I think you’re talking about me.
Motive: Transparency.
I am also not a WCICS executive or WCICS club representive or ever plan to be, not my club (CARCAR) executive, or anyone who has any amount of say in what goes on behind the scenes. I’m just a racer.
Who am I? Ask racers who have actually raced against me and talk to me in the pits. I’ve won a few “Best Sportsmanship Awards” from at least 3 different clubs voted by my peers. I can say you will have never seen or heard me handle myself in anyway that is detrimental to the RC hobby. Personally Danny, I remember a few years back at a WCICS race, where an overly aggressive racers got pissed at you during a race and at the end of the race, came up to you and threaten you to “take it outside”. Who was the first one to stand between you and the aggressor to calm things down while getting an earful myself? Me.
Sorry, let me correct myself. I guess my motive is Transparency and standing up for racers.
Ivan
Heard from everyone at the race that the venue, people, atmosphere, volunteers, sponsors, etc were awesome. Not the issue.
Volunteer RD was new at this and did his best and was awesome. We all appreciated you time and effort. Not the issue.
Feel free to jump to the 1:30:00 mark of the video coverage of the event; no need to rely on what you may have heard. I openly announced what I was told over the microphone during the Mod B Main warm-up. Yes, in the moment I did not object to or question what the Mod class drivers had discussed.
http://livestream.com/tvtruck/events...deos/100494590
http://livestream.com/tvtruck/events...deos/100494590
Agreed. Wish I had known at the time that one or more drivers would be upset by this situation. Sorry to frustrate you monkeyracing, just wanted to clear up any rumors that may be floating around. I'm not aware of what decisions have been made post race since I don't race in the series. I'll leave it at that.
As for the racer going into the A main, he was the one that asked me if I had a problem with him going into the A, As he said he was faster then all of us in the b (take a look he was) and other racers wanted him in the a as they were so close to have a good battle.
I said I just don't want to be in anyones way im more then rusty lol.
if the other drivers in the A wanted him to have a good battle awesome its about having fun!
IF the driver had hidden reasons then shame on him with who it was there was no race director error or bad choice you assume that person knows the rules and how things should be run so you would just go along with it. and on that he did a great job as rd all weekend!!!!
I said I just don't want to be in anyones way im more then rusty lol.
if the other drivers in the A wanted him to have a good battle awesome its about having fun!
IF the driver had hidden reasons then shame on him with who it was there was no race director error or bad choice you assume that person knows the rules and how things should be run so you would just go along with it. and on that he did a great job as rd all weekend!!!!
Mark: 1:17:49 in the video: RD says “I’m told the drivers had a discussion and they bumped Josh into the A Main”
Not the RD’s fault. He was told what to do.
Here is the issue: Heats were posted according to the rules. 5 in A Main and 4 in B Main. Someone suggested to change the rules. The person who WROTE the rules was there. If the RD, being new to this was told by the person who WROTE the rules that’s it’s ok for 6 in A Main and 3 in B Main, the RD isn’t going to argue. The RD did nothing wrong. I repeat, the RD did nothing wrong.
Matt,
Lets not start any further confusion,
I suggest as a guideline to ANY racer racing in the WCICS series or any other series please take a few moments to read over the series rules you have to have a basic understanding of them. In the question that Matt raises, The RD does NOT have the Ability to decide if points will be given out or not given out. The WCICS rule states that their has to be a min of 4 cars registered and running in order for points to be scored. It does not say the class will not be run, that is the RD's choice or the Host club's choice if they want to accommodate the racers to run there cars. Does that make sense to everyone? The rule is there because our series does get very competitive and sometimes overall championships come down to issues like this. This rule is to ensure that no one can take advantage of small class turnouts at one event to scored high points. Is it perfect? Maybe or maybe not but it is what it is for now.
Remember WCICS is based 100% on volunteer time, If you guys want iron clad rule sets, then I suggest we look to you the racers to fund this one way or another, step up and volunteer your time to help out.
Korgae
Lets not start any further confusion,
I suggest as a guideline to ANY racer racing in the WCICS series or any other series please take a few moments to read over the series rules you have to have a basic understanding of them. In the question that Matt raises, The RD does NOT have the Ability to decide if points will be given out or not given out. The WCICS rule states that their has to be a min of 4 cars registered and running in order for points to be scored. It does not say the class will not be run, that is the RD's choice or the Host club's choice if they want to accommodate the racers to run there cars. Does that make sense to everyone? The rule is there because our series does get very competitive and sometimes overall championships come down to issues like this. This rule is to ensure that no one can take advantage of small class turnouts at one event to scored high points. Is it perfect? Maybe or maybe not but it is what it is for now.
Remember WCICS is based 100% on volunteer time, If you guys want iron clad rule sets, then I suggest we look to you the racers to fund this one way or another, step up and volunteer your time to help out.
Korgae
“14. All heats will be structured according to a 50% rule to ensure the enjoyment of all
racers. When the number of racers in the last heat is at or below 50% of the max
number of cars in a heat, the last 2 heats will be split, and if there is an odd
number of cars, the faster heat will have 1 more than the slower heat. (i.e. if there
are only 9 vehicles for the mains, and normally 8 maximum cars run per heat, it
would be broken up into an A-main of 5, and a B-main of 4).”
Interestingly this is the exact situation presented at the race.
I was at the race 7 or 8 years ago when I first started where a young lady was put to tears cause “we needed to fill the higher Mains” when she was left on the drivers stand all alone cause 2 racers in the lowest heat didn’t want to run in the “slower heat”. This is why we have the 50/50 rule to fill the Mains. That’s why rules are in place to not to let this happen again. Incidentally, the person who WROTE the rules was at this race too.
Behind the scenes there is lot's of good communication between reps/exe's in form of emails and phone conversations. This was the point I was trying to make to Ivan, I simply do not have the time to address these loaded questions that leads to more questions. When a problem comes to light it is much easier and transparent for me to investigate and write a report that is then sent out to all of the reps to communicate directly with their clubs and or members face to face.
Motive: Transparency.
I am also not a WCICS executive or WCICS club representive or ever plan to be, not my club (CARCAR) executive, or anyone who has any amount of say in what goes on behind the scenes. I’m just a racer.
Who am I? Ask racers who have actually raced against me and talk to me in the pits. I’ve won a few “Best Sportsmanship Awards” from at least 3 different clubs voted by my peers. I can say you will have never seen or heard me handle myself in anyway that is detrimental to the RC hobby. Personally Danny, I remember a few years back at a WCICS race, where an overly aggressive racers got pissed at you during a race and at the end of the race, came up to you and threaten you to “take it outside”. Who was the first one to stand between you and the aggressor to calm things down while getting an earful myself? Me.
Sorry, let me correct myself. I guess my motive is Transparency and standing up for racers.
Ivan
10-07-2015, 08:52 PM
#165
[QUOTE=Madulla;14213701
The facts according to WCICS rules the Mains are 50/50 not 60/40 or 70/30. If a racer is fast enough to be added to a Main, can you remove a driver because you feel that they are to slow for a Main? If the racers decide a guy is too slow kick them out of the race and if the RD agrees then it can't be questioned. Lots of grey area here that needs to be looked at.[/QUOTE]
Cal, I know you read the email, and being a WCICS rep yourself I think you should save your thoughts for the AGM as discussed. One would think that would be the place we can hammer out changes.
I would direct you to rule 1 on page 17: “1. Race Director’s ruling is final on all matters.”
I know the touring mod class was the target of this enquiry but in my findings, the above actually applies to multiple classes.
In talking to the RD he expressed an interest in making splits based on the size of the track and the ability of the drivers and classes. It was his judgment call, I find no pattern that he followed in setting up the mains as they all ran different splits. ( Best example I can find is WGT ran 9 cars in a single main)
Since there was no pattern in setting up the numbers for the mains, other then trying to maintain an exciting ‘A’ main everything was done within our rule set.
The facts according to WCICS rules the Mains are 50/50 not 60/40 or 70/30. If a racer is fast enough to be added to a Main, can you remove a driver because you feel that they are to slow for a Main? If the racers decide a guy is too slow kick them out of the race and if the RD agrees then it can't be questioned. Lots of grey area here that needs to be looked at.[/QUOTE]
Cal, I know you read the email, and being a WCICS rep yourself I think you should save your thoughts for the AGM as discussed. One would think that would be the place we can hammer out changes.
I would direct you to rule 1 on page 17: “1. Race Director’s ruling is final on all matters.”
I know the touring mod class was the target of this enquiry but in my findings, the above actually applies to multiple classes.
In talking to the RD he expressed an interest in making splits based on the size of the track and the ability of the drivers and classes. It was his judgment call, I find no pattern that he followed in setting up the mains as they all ran different splits. ( Best example I can find is WGT ran 9 cars in a single main)
Since there was no pattern in setting up the numbers for the mains, other then trying to maintain an exciting ‘A’ main everything was done within our rule set.
