Steve S

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, I was thinking about it some more and realized that the qualifying divisions are actually the skill divisions. I think the best thing the clubs can do is encourage deep fields so that there is competition at every level within the class.

Dog Bone

iTrader: (4)

There, fixed that for you.

Sorry Pete

On a more serious note, I agree - this is a really difficult one to deal with. I would leave it alone, and let people race in the classes they want to race. As has been mentioned by others, you can't keep everyone happy - by changing the rules, we'll simply shift where the unhappiness currently lies.

I think WCICS has been working quite well the last few years - why mess with it by restricting who can race what classes?

E-BUSS

Hello All,

Sounds like a good podcast, Ivan. I'll have to give it a listen.

I actually like the structure we have now. As was mentioned previously, there is usually some good racing in any of the mains.

I enjoy racing with people at a similar skill level. If I'm racing with Dog Bone for instance. The first 1/2 or 3/4...or however long it takes him to break his car that heat......is good racing!!!

Later,

Dog Bone

iTrader: (4)

Too funny - but that's pretty-bumper history :-)

Giuseppe

ROAR used to disallow drivers from entering Stock and Mod in the same class at the same event (ie if you run 2wd Mod Buggy, you were not allowed to enter 2wd Stock Buggy). Yes, we aren't ROAR, but the rule kinda makes sense.

Couple Pro's
1. no driver discrimination by a rule or a fellow driver. If a driver wants to be a Stock driver that weekend, so be it. If he want's to be a mod guy, that's cool too.
2. it keeps the winners in Stock and the winners in Mod different

Con's - um, you can't run all 8 class Ivan. Sorry.

I think some driver's have already decided, willingly, to restrict entry in the slower classes. I don't think it needs to become a rule, but more a mindset.

BoneCrusher

iTrader: (2)

You put your money where your mouth is Jason cause you ran TC mod but not TC stock at our Calgary race. I think that's crazy driving like 8 hours to our race and not run the most popular and competitive class but I respect your point of view. Then again, making the A Main in TC Mod was actually quite difficult too if you remember our qualifying rounds together.

At the other extreme, I'm a proponent of run whatever classes you want and however many you want as long as you can Marshall after all your races (or get volunteers) and you don't make others wait for you on the driver's stand cause you really can't handle that many classes.

But after 3 years of running all the classes at WCICS races, I've decided to only run 4 classes this coming season by choice a while ago. Apparently maintenance and trying different setup changes in between heats may yield better on track performance than my well tested universal setup.

Now that's crazy.

Ivan

notsocrazybrit

iTrader: (2)

+1. At first the pre-sort gives us our skill divisions. Then we race against people of similar ability. It doesn't get any better than that in my opinion.

I also agree with Ivan. I really want the top drivers to race stock classes, I like to compare my performance to the very best.

IronRing Racing

lol, this discussion mirrors almost exactly how the conversation went at the WCICS meeting a few years ago when we discussed it.

The pre-sorts really do solve a lot, and allows us to leave every class open to every racer to enter.

I've always enjoyed having the best racers in the classes I run, chasing the top guy is always motivation. But as some mentioned, there does come a time, and after taking 4 out of 6 possible championships over the last 2 years, I'll be stepping away from Mini, VTA & 12th Stock. I'm just going to focus on the mod classes, WGT, and TC Stock.

The sponsors understand this as well. As an example, Great Hobbies gave gift certificates to the B-main winners, and one of the new sponsors for next season is sending t-shirts for the winners of the B-main in the class they're sponsoring. They understand too that sometimes the same guys always win the A, so want to reward the B-main rising stars with some love too!

At the end of the day, the main reason we'd never say "Pro's" couldn't run a certain class, is because NOBODY wants the job of classifying who is a Pro, and who isn't. It's a certain amount of judgement call, and nobody wants those politics landing in their lap.

Josh

monkeyracing

iTrader: (10)

Tamiya tried arbitrarily classing drivers last year and it blew up in their face. I believe they tried to do it by how many years someone had driven, rather than actual talent.

BoneCrusher

iTrader: (2)

So you looking to win some gift certificates and free t-shirts next season Mr. Rising Star?

Ivan

Scottmisfits

iTrader: (7)

We are a very different breed when it comes to our classes and qualifying. Any other form of racing I have done there have been skill levels. To move to the next skill level, you had to do so well in your current level OR willingly move yourself up to the next group of better and faster racers. In those classes you then had your qualifying and sorting. That's where it becomes very similar to what we have.
How do you get better? Track time is great. It will help a lot. But track time against those that are faster than you is even better. Follow their cars, mimic their lines, just try to stay with them.

I ran stock for quite some time, onroad and offroad, exclusively, always afraid at how much mod racing cost because of what people had told me. I was never one of the IT guys in stock, but I wanted more, I wanted faster. I was very surprised when I moved to faster cars. I was getting better and it was happening faster. Obviously there were other people that had the same idea because mod classes grew, especially with brushless and lipo.

I have always been a fan of graduated racing. However, given our situation with the WCICS series, I think it must be left to the individual racer. I really do like Jason's idea. In remember when we had that here in offroad and people seemed to be really happy about it.

Just my thoughts from a very occasional onroad racer.

Killer Bee 1

Steve Soon, ( Calgary ) Chris Clifton ( medicine hat ) and myself started the tricities series in 98. if you contact Chris he might have more information i have been looking through some old stuff to see if i can find old results and stuff like that

Danny-b23

iTrader: (3)

I myself won't be touching the stock classes this year. For me it's just too hard to go from Stock TC to Mod TC. Waaay too different. Both are difficult, but for totally different reasons.

The nice thing about having a stock-only mod-only kind of approach is you[re then dealing with drivers who are running faster classes all weekend, not trying to bounce back and forth. I think this will make racing that much better as people will have time to get used to the speed of what ever class set they're running and stay at that speed.

Using Ivan as an example; I've harped on him pretty hard that because he's trying to run so many classes that are SO different, all of them suffer because he never really has a chance to get used to one sort of car with one sort of speed. Now, with him only() running 4 classes, he'll be a guy to watch in the top 5's and podiums for sure.

BoneCrusher

iTrader: (2)

I'm gonna have to disagree with you Danny. I could concentrate on 1 class and it wouldn't make me any faster. In your case, that would be different cause you're young still. I'm also disappointed too that you and Korgae have opted out of TC Stock next year. Good thing Steve is still running.

Most of the 'top' guys in this series in any of the classes are either younger than me with faster reflexes (I'm probably twice your age), started this hobby when they were teenagers so with more experience (at least 4 times longer than I've done this), or have some kind of real world racing experience where you know more about driving lines, setup changes and such than me. There's no way I can catch up and I'm ok with that.

Most know my driving style: Stay away from trouble!!! My attitude on the drivers stand: like a kid having fun. (Sorry for being chatty on the driver's stand at times). I've actually done pretty well in my opinion the 2 most competitive classes of TC Stock and TC Mod the last couple of years not because I'm fast, but because I stay outta trouble and most first corner carnages during the mains, don't break and finish every race, and just really run my own race like I'm in qualifying. No pressure.

I'm running less classes this coming year not because I've won any of the slower classes (I haven't won anything in the last 2 years), or I'm bored with the ironman thing cause it's actually quite fun and easy to do, or I wanna do better or have the delusion of being top dog , or even appease the people who think I shouldn't be running in classes like Mini (I thought it was the fun class......technically aren't they all suppose to be fun?), it's really to try a different aspect of this hobby that could also be fun like trying different setup changes and how that will affect handling as the track changes thru the weekend. If others have different goals, thats great too!

I also like a bit more time helping out the real newbies in this hobby that have cars that run like crap that affects how they are having fun. They are the future of this hobby. If I'm doing it for any other reason like its gonna help me beat the real fast guys in this series, I'm gonna be thoroughly disappointed.

I don't want to be an angry guy inside on the driver's stand with a chip in his shoulder that's got something to prove. I'm just a budget racer out to have fun.

Ivan

monkeyracing

iTrader: (10)

Good post, Ivan. Sums it all up.