WCICS pan car 2010/11 battery discussion thread
11-17-2009, 04:10 PM
#16
lots of great talking points guys.
just to be clear though, this thread is only the start of what I anticipate will be an interesting discussion for what to run next year.
I'm really thinking li-po only next year will be the way forward.
I do think though that some sort of limit in the rules would be handy, even if just so guys don't feel they have to wait until the last minute to buy cells in case something new and exciting comes out the week before the first event.
you know how we all are with technology...
Stu
just to be clear though, this thread is only the start of what I anticipate will be an interesting discussion for what to run next year.
I'm really thinking li-po only next year will be the way forward.
I do think though that some sort of limit in the rules would be handy, even if just so guys don't feel they have to wait until the last minute to buy cells in case something new and exciting comes out the week before the first event.
you know how we all are with technology...
Stu
11-17-2009, 05:33 PM
#17
I agree with Mike and Scott! Mike has a good idea, or as Scott points out, the points split isn't hard to do either.
Put it this way, I've got the most (points) to lose going with Mike's idea, and I'd still rather do that then just keep the classes combined!
But we all agree that we should seperate the classes. I don't think it will hurt anything, and there were several lipo WGT guys that didn't run because of the round cells, so we'll most likely increase the total registrations.
Josh
Put it this way, I've got the most (points) to lose going with Mike's idea, and I'd still rather do that then just keep the classes combined!
But we all agree that we should seperate the classes. I don't think it will hurt anything, and there were several lipo WGT guys that didn't run because of the round cells, so we'll most likely increase the total registrations.
Josh
11-17-2009, 07:37 PM
#18
We all started this season knowing what the rules were and you really couldn’t have thought a lipo battery would be competitive with a 4 cell Nimh battery. But as far as next year goes I realize that most racers will be switching to lipo packs. I just hope that as far as the rules go for next year that all the club members are take into consideration Not just the few members of each club that travel from race to race. We need to take into consideration clubs like Regina for instance where the majority of our members do not go out of town to race but do keep up with their annual fees and pay drop in fees to race on occasion, but do take part in the annual race at the bible collage. How do we tell these racers that they need to buy a complete new lipo set up to use to race there. Isn’t this just discouraging new member’s that are vital to keep our club funded and running. I assume that most clubs are in this same position. The annual race is a huge percentage of our club income and a lot of that income comes from Kids and Families that just come out for that one yearly race. Most of the newer members buy batteries, cars and other equipment from the more competitive members in the club thus keeping their initial costs down. This helps them gradually upgrading their equipment while we upgrade ours. I am currently holding off on switching to lipo set ups for my 1/12 pan cars because for now 4 cell is faster, I am waiting to see what technology will change over the course of the year, mainly ESC’s. But for the rules I am hoping we are going to make battery exceptions for locals coming out to WCICS events. They are vital to sustaining our club. I hope that this is something that we take into consideration. Thanks to Stu for starting this discussion its good to see that next year is being thought about.
- Ryan
- Ryan
11-18-2009, 11:30 AM
#20
Ryan,
That's why just splitting the classes is the best idea. It doesn't force anybody to buy anything, everybody who has NiMH can run them, as can li-po. In fact, from the lipo WGT people that didn't run that I talked to, it will actually INCREASE the registrations!
Nothing bad here, all positive.
Just like the TC 13.5 and 17.5 issue (they're the same lap times), WCICS does it's best, but these are new motors, batteries, technology, and it's unfair to expect them to get it perfect the first time. With this changing tech, we need to be flexible when we see we obviously didn't get it right.
WCICS thought lipo and NiMH would be close, but it's not. OK, lets move forward. The class split doesn't harm anyone, helps many, and quite possibly will improve registrations.
Put it this way, certainly the lipo guys will be happy to run in thier own class, and there will probably be more out, but do you see any of the NiMH guys NOT running because they're driving against only other NiMH's? There was only 2 lipo's in the A anyway, they won't even notice.
So what's the downside?
Let's split the class for this technology "leap" year, and move forward.
Josh
That's why just splitting the classes is the best idea. It doesn't force anybody to buy anything, everybody who has NiMH can run them, as can li-po. In fact, from the lipo WGT people that didn't run that I talked to, it will actually INCREASE the registrations!
Nothing bad here, all positive.
Just like the TC 13.5 and 17.5 issue (they're the same lap times), WCICS does it's best, but these are new motors, batteries, technology, and it's unfair to expect them to get it perfect the first time. With this changing tech, we need to be flexible when we see we obviously didn't get it right.
WCICS thought lipo and NiMH would be close, but it's not. OK, lets move forward. The class split doesn't harm anyone, helps many, and quite possibly will improve registrations.
Put it this way, certainly the lipo guys will be happy to run in thier own class, and there will probably be more out, but do you see any of the NiMH guys NOT running because they're driving against only other NiMH's? There was only 2 lipo's in the A anyway, they won't even notice.
So what's the downside?
Let's split the class for this technology "leap" year, and move forward.
Josh
11-18-2009, 11:45 AM
#21
Tech Addict
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In the pits throwing wrenches at slow cars!
Posts: 548
We have to reaslise that a new class such as WGT coupled with ever advancing technology creates a situation where we can not possibly make rules that will be good for en entire season. I understand the economic viewpoint of some racers (I'm in the same boat). However you do have to pay to play. We can try and adapt rules to suite our little corner of the world but....we limit ourselves in doing so.
I think the current situation is a result of not testing directly ourselves. We had only second hand knowledge to base the WGT rules on for this season. By starting now we can gain the insight necessary to properly evaluate the available technology so we don't have this issue next season.
Round cells are clearly on the way out. Lipo is the power source for the (near) future of our cars. I am confident that the major sanctioning boddies will end up with 2 divisions; WGT1 for 10.5 motors (already called Pro WGT at iic and other major races) and WGT2 for 13.5 motors.
I would like find out who would be interested in running a second WGT class with me this year. My idea for the rules would be as follows:
WGT1
-this is the current class as it runs now as a points paying class
-WGT rules
-4 cell/1105g or Lipo/930g
WGT2
-DEMO class this year, no points this season. Class to be used to gain insight in order to shape the class for the future.
-Lipo ONLY
-930g
-WGT rules
-13.5 motor for Lethbridge
-10.5 motor for Regina and Calgary
My suggestions are only in regards to the WGT class. I have no frame of reference on the 1/12 cars rather only observations.
I think the current situation is a result of not testing directly ourselves. We had only second hand knowledge to base the WGT rules on for this season. By starting now we can gain the insight necessary to properly evaluate the available technology so we don't have this issue next season.
Round cells are clearly on the way out. Lipo is the power source for the (near) future of our cars. I am confident that the major sanctioning boddies will end up with 2 divisions; WGT1 for 10.5 motors (already called Pro WGT at iic and other major races) and WGT2 for 13.5 motors.
I would like find out who would be interested in running a second WGT class with me this year. My idea for the rules would be as follows:
WGT1
-this is the current class as it runs now as a points paying class
-WGT rules
-4 cell/1105g or Lipo/930g
WGT2
-DEMO class this year, no points this season. Class to be used to gain insight in order to shape the class for the future.
-Lipo ONLY
-930g
-WGT rules
-13.5 motor for Lethbridge
-10.5 motor for Regina and Calgary
My suggestions are only in regards to the WGT class. I have no frame of reference on the 1/12 cars rather only observations.
11-18-2009, 06:34 PM
#22
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
Leave the WGT alone. It was fun to have 2 full heats. If we split them up then we will back to 6 or 8 in each class. I ran Lipo, sure it was slower but I still had fun out there. If I would have tightened all the screws on my car before the race I would have finished in the top 5. This class is a riot don't ruin it!
Jody
Jody
11-18-2009, 06:44 PM
#23
1 more time, just to be clear:
This thread is ONLY TO DISCUSS WCICS PAN CARS FOR 2010/11.
any discussion for the current series, let's keep it on that thread please.
What we are looking for here is thoughts and opinions on which way forward for the pan car classes with particular regard to cells and how we can keep the classes popular and indeed continuing to grow.
This thread is ONLY TO DISCUSS WCICS PAN CARS FOR 2010/11.
any discussion for the current series, let's keep it on that thread please.
What we are looking for here is thoughts and opinions on which way forward for the pan car classes with particular regard to cells and how we can keep the classes popular and indeed continuing to grow.
11-18-2009, 09:40 PM
#24
1/12th, 13.5 on 1s is plenty for anybody. 730 grams.
WGT, 13.5 on 1s is plenty for anybody. Not quite as fast as 1/12th, but the better handling makes up for it at 930 grams.
10.5 is very fast in a pan car.
All things to consider, remember this. You don't want faster cars, you want BETTER racing. A bit of control yields better racing. Faster cars usually don't yield faster lap times. everybody has a line they cross where a more powerful motor yields slower lap times, and it usually doesn't take much motor to see it. a LOT of racers when running stock and then given the opportunity to run any motor on earth, turn slower lap times with unlimited power.
And that crazy racing, yields broken parts and flared tempers to top it all off.
I'm still a fan of silver can 1/12th. Or 21.5. Although I haven't played with 21.5 on 1s to see how bad the rollout is, but I suspect it's the final line to cross where the pinions are bigger than the spur. It's possible, based on the diameter of the diff ring, that we might not be able to do it. Be close though. Only take one pack to see.
BETTER RACING, not faster cars.
How'd you like to be in a local 10 car amain and have every single car finish on the same lap... How often does that happen? How'd you like to run neck and neck, bumper to bumper with the winner being the guy that made the fewest mistakes? Not the winner being the only guy to survive the first corner mess, or being taken out by somebody that was being lapped for the 5th-10th time. go 3 feet wide in a corner and lose a spot as it should be. not the usual get punted by the next car through because he was going 50mph and overshot the line down low trying to tuck under you.
Faster motors always, ALWAYS, only help the top drivers. Well thought out motor choices help everybody else drive better for a quality race.
BETTER RACING, not faster cars.
WGT, 13.5 on 1s is plenty for anybody. Not quite as fast as 1/12th, but the better handling makes up for it at 930 grams.
10.5 is very fast in a pan car.
All things to consider, remember this. You don't want faster cars, you want BETTER racing. A bit of control yields better racing. Faster cars usually don't yield faster lap times. everybody has a line they cross where a more powerful motor yields slower lap times, and it usually doesn't take much motor to see it. a LOT of racers when running stock and then given the opportunity to run any motor on earth, turn slower lap times with unlimited power.
And that crazy racing, yields broken parts and flared tempers to top it all off.
I'm still a fan of silver can 1/12th. Or 21.5. Although I haven't played with 21.5 on 1s to see how bad the rollout is, but I suspect it's the final line to cross where the pinions are bigger than the spur. It's possible, based on the diameter of the diff ring, that we might not be able to do it. Be close though. Only take one pack to see.
BETTER RACING, not faster cars.
How'd you like to be in a local 10 car amain and have every single car finish on the same lap... How often does that happen? How'd you like to run neck and neck, bumper to bumper with the winner being the guy that made the fewest mistakes? Not the winner being the only guy to survive the first corner mess, or being taken out by somebody that was being lapped for the 5th-10th time. go 3 feet wide in a corner and lose a spot as it should be. not the usual get punted by the next car through because he was going 50mph and overshot the line down low trying to tuck under you.
Faster motors always, ALWAYS, only help the top drivers. Well thought out motor choices help everybody else drive better for a quality race.
BETTER RACING, not faster cars.
Last edited by Bob-Stormer; 11-18-2009 at 09:50 PM.
11-18-2009, 10:25 PM
#25
Tech Addict
iTrader: (40)
Leave the WGT alone. It was fun to have 2 full heats. If we split them up then we will back to 6 or 8 in each class. I ran Lipo, sure it was slower but I still had fun out there. If I would have tightened all the screws on my car before the race I would have finished in the top 5. This class is a riot don't ruin it!
Jody
Jody
I don't see it fun only have a few guys to race with the entire weekend. Bigger class = better racing
11-19-2009, 08:49 AM
#30
Tried out 12th 10.5t using 1s lipo for the second time last night. The reduced weight of the car coupled by the less rip of the lipo makes for a very pleasant and predictable car to drive. Last year I tried running it and I was everywhere but straight.
Left the track fuming a couple times at myself for missing my line causing my car to be carried home with me in a dust buster.
Kudos goes out to whoever landed on this class as I think it's going to be a thrill ride.
Left the track fuming a couple times at myself for missing my line causing my car to be carried home with me in a dust buster.
Kudos goes out to whoever landed on this class as I think it's going to be a thrill ride.