FIVE 7

iTrader: (8)

Classes

Touring Mod (Brushed or Brushless, NiMh or Hardcase LiPo)
Touring Stock (27 Turn Locked Endbell Brushed Motors Only, NiMh or Hardcase LiPo)
Touring 19T (ROAR Approved Only 10.5 Brushless OR any 19T Locked Endbell Brushed Motor, NiMh or Hardcase LiPo)
Touring Novice (27T Locked Endbell Brushed Motors Only, NiMh or Hardcase LiPo)
Touring Nitro
19T Pro-10 (ROAR Approved Only 10.5 Brushless OR any 19T Locked Endbell Brushed Motor, NiMh or any Soft or Hard Case LiPo)

Rick Speer

Hey, you can add me to the list

Pre-Reg Rick Speer (Wheels)

TC Stock, Ch.88 - PT.9206411
Pro10 19T, Ch.88 - PT.9910967

BulletMan

i do believe that 13.5 is now the equvilant to 19t.... its thw way most tracks are going...

vote #1 for TC19/13.5

martin

Giuseppe

Just want to be clear on what's what.

13.5 is the ROAR ruling for the 19t class, but based on race experience with the 10.5 vs 19t, I would say a 13.5 is not equivalent to a 19t motor.

We have allowed the 10.5 int he 19t class before (Mid-Winter) and saw very little differences (Korgae TQ'd with 10.5 only seconds ahead of Flodell with 19t).

JMO but with only 3weeks to go, can't really wait long to make changes...

BulletMan

how many seconds? both very good drivers with top equipment, so this tells me that the 10.5 IS FASTER.

Gilligan

Hey, Guys.

2008 ROAR
Stock = 17.5 and 27T
Super Stock = 10.5 and 19T

2009 ROAR
Stock = 17.5 and 27T
Super Stock = 13.5 only - no brushed motors.

Mixing 13.5 in there is a local rule without real logic in terms of wattage. It's fine but should be capped as spec'd out (10.5) by current rules. Good data to support it (as opposed to anecdote). If you are racing 13.5 and 19T, and are equal to your peers, run a 19T!

My $.02.

Phil

Kody

iTrader: (9)

What about us coming from Seattle, WA... $4 a gallon and a five hour drive if they let us over the boarder!

Kody

Kody

iTrader: (9)

Kody Knudtson

19T TC
Mod TC

Doug has my numbers on his comp...

Kody

BulletMan

so are you supporting 10.5 & 19T in the same class? i am confused

Gilligan

Howdy.

ROAR supported them since the January meeting and for what it's worth, it's what we've been running here. Locally we have had both brushed and brushless win that class on a regular basis. So, it makes sense to me personally for now until the new Super Stock rules come into effect which is exclusively 13.5. It remains, however, at the discretion of the race organizers and local clubs to decide.

We've seen excellent drivers win TC with a 13.5 in 19T class but when racing gets closer with a dozen guys like it has been with our 30 or so Pro10 drivers, the 13.5 blows up trying to catch the fast guys - tried and tested every time when the 10.5 or 19T pack is a screaming freight train and you're way under powered.

P.

Dan Boundy

So Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like what you are saying Phil is that in order to be competitive the 13.5 has to be geared to the nut and on the verge of blowing up?

The 10.5 is a much better comparison to the 19t brushed motors? Correct?

This is supported by dyno tests which I believe we saw in previous posts from TBang and what we have seen on the track at several events and at club races, Correct?

Dan

Gilligan

Hi, Dan.

You are correct. It's straight forward to use a mathematical formula to figure out where you need to gear to reach the same top speed but you run out of room to achieve that on the track. As a test back in February, we put a 13.5 up against a 10.5 and two 19T. The 13.5 could not reach the same speed at all, nor did it have the punch coming out of the corners. I tried several different sweet spots and came off the track at 260 degrees after the speedo thermalled. Both the rotor and motor can were a total write-off each time we tested it and I could simply not touch the performance of the 19T. We've repeated the test several times outdoor, too, figuring it would be easier on the motor, but it was a no-go and the same thing happened with different motors, drivers and speedos. 10.5 is a different story altogether.

The wattage on the 10.5 is much closer to a 19T. An excellent X19 Hemi K produces upwards of 180-185 watts at 7 volts whereas the 10.5s we've tested produce 179-181 watts with very little variance in manufacturing specs as opposed to what we've seen in brushed motors. RPM and torque numbers are bizarre to compare, and the wattage still gives us the best overall basis for dyno comparison which holds up in on-track testing. The unknown factor is the capacity of the brushless speedo to digitally advance the timing on the motor. There are a few on the market that can do this, but certainly not everyone has them nor do they have the knowlege or testing to make things fair for everyone. So, who knows about that issue. What I am suggesting here is based on a comparison of stock timing and stock speedo settings for both motor types.

Of course, we've seen excellent TC drivers such as Albert and Keith drive to beat less skilled 19T drivers, so it is important to consider the comparison when all things are equal. You could see a 19T stomp the daylights out of a 13.5 on the straight where drivers had to apply brakes to avoid hitting the 13.5 but the smooth skills of the 13.5 drivers held them at bay. Besides, no one wants to get in the way of the top drivers anyway!

So, yes, 10.5 is a much better match to 19T which is precisely why ROAR endorsed it for this year.

Make sense?
Phil

FIVE 7

iTrader: (8)

Thanks Phil....hopefully that clears it up. We decided back in July to run either the 10.5 or the 19 Turn brushed in the same class as this is what was being run and we wanted to stay in pace with what was happening at other tracks.

Dan Boundy

Cool, thanks Brent.

So now we just need Phil to post the same thing on the Big Chill thread and we are set. LOL

Dan

stulec52

iTrader: (26)

Hey Phil (or if anyone else ventures an opinion)

Does the above reasoning also mean that 27 brushed is now more similar to 13.5 rather than 17.5?

Just really wondering for going forward into a new season.