1/10th Off-road. Dirt, Carpet, or Astro?
 

Thread idea suggested by Christina Munday, and now seconded by me.
Australian off-road 1/10th tracks have traditionally been dirt/clay. And for good reason too.
But....Europe (especially the UK) run mainly on synthetic or grass surfaces and all over the world people are taking to these types of surfaces with relish. Why? Consistent grip, very little maintenance, and also very little car cleaning after.
Is there a place for this type of track here? How do they compare cost-wise anyway?
I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other to be honest but I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

I think for me it's dirt outside as a preference. It is more work and relies on weather but I love the challenge it offers and how the track maybe tacky in winter at the start of the day but blue grooves later on. Have to think more on tyre choices. More of a challenge also with new bumps or ruts that pop up each week. Don't care if my car is dirty...think I don't like carpet because it feels boring without the challenges. Interested in indoor clay but not si much if it's high bite. Cool my old school I guess. Off road is off road. I think in Europe weather plays a big part with the colder winters.

If tracks are going to carpeted in between race meeting (which I agree with to protect the surface and reduce maintenance), do it properly. Not this bits and pieces here and there. Make it look good and driveable. Even run a winter series on the carpet, sweep the standing water off and away you go.
Just my 2 cents

I personally think astro could work here in Australia. Each club's situation is different , wether it be the avalibility of resources or the climate.

Low maintenance , no watering and ready to use within a moments notice.

I guess some people are against astro (and/or carpet) because it goes against tradition, now we have Stadium Supertrucks racing on road circuits in here and in America....now THAT is going against tradition! :eek:

Not about tradition for me. I like Dirt, mud, clay, puddles etc.

For me offroad is about natural surfaces. I actually really enjoy racing on grass. It's possibly my favourite form of offroad. Grass is high grip but with a well set-up car quite forgiving. The track starts pristine and then develops in the same way hard packed dirt tracks do with the racing line wearing. Dealing with the changing track condition is a key aspect of the racing.

As for carpet or astroturf, to me those are onroad RC surfaces. I rather like it when you have one or two corners on a track of them, variety is another important (lost) part of offroad, but I really don't like whole tracks of them. If you have a whole carpet track then it doesn't develop in the same way over the course of a meeting, and you don't have to do the same maintenance or set-up changes on your car, and those are key parts of what makes offroad offroad. Onroad buggy/truck is like those supercross trucks they have racing on road circuits in the US. That always seems like it's about as sensible as racing F1 on a dirt road. If you've got a carpet surface then let's race the RC cars we have designed for carpet on it.

you really must like cleaning your vehicle??

Don't forget that less track work during the meeting means either more racing or a shorter day, something that is raised quite often.

Radio Active, your comment about racing cars on carpet that were designed to actually applies to buggies these days too. Yokomo and X-ray make carpet/Astro focused models, with Kyosho now making a conversion and TLR talking about the laydown gearbox conversion coming out soon.

I personally like it. There's still set-up work to do, but the racing can be faster and closer with high traction and consistency.
I do also like racing on dirt, but the days are longer, which can be an issue in winter with big events and those that have young kids and/or partners who want to see us for some of Sunday.

The specific vehicles are designed for those surfaces, but the class of cars is not. The heritage of the buggy and truck classes is of scale models designed to mimic real buggies and trucks custom built for running on rough offroad surfaces. If we're going to depart so radically from that heritage, why even call it offroad, or why even bother mandating windows anymore?

A long time ago FWD buggies were banned from competing in the 2WD class because people feared you'd have to have two different buggies depending upon the conditions. By racing on carpet tracks alongside dirt tracks that situation is recreated. You need a different buggy on each surface, either that or you have to *completely* rebuild your car into an entirely different configuration. If you're time poor that second one isn't an option.

I mean this in complete jest, but you have way more than one RC car, don't you? In percentage terms, what would one more car make to your fleet? 😬
Joking aside, there are those out there who bought a B5 and a B5M when it was a new platform, so not that much difference. However, for the record, that Kyosho front wheel drive buggy was horrible.

I raced on carpet and standard Losi 22 2.0 buggies were competitive with carpet focused cars (4wd rear bolted onto a 2wd front).

I seriously think you could do an extra round in a race day or finish 2 hours earlier on a major event or give all mains 3 legs, not just the As! Surely that alone makes it a consideration to attracting more people to our hobby?

RC needs to get back to the scale racing it was always supposed to be.
You don't see real cars racing on Astro, or on carpet.
So what that the track changes, that happens in the real world too. It also adds to the challenge. Not only do you need skill, you need to be smart too.

Same applies to on road.
You don't see real cars race on foam tyres, or on carpet, nor do they use traction compound.
And don't get me started on the body shells! Lol

This can be argued from so many different angles, so I've said my piece about what I think is important - more racing for everyone - so I'm leaving it now.

But, scale? So you'd be happy with scale speed and jumps too? Or are you going to just go with surface, because these buggies are based originally on sand dune racers.

Thinking long term, are tyres suited to dirt, low grip conditions etc be available for much longer? Seems like US/Europe dont really race on conditions like we do so will major tyre suppliers bother with such a small market?

if so then maybe astro or carpet might be something to think about.

I wasn't so much thinking about the established racer, but the newcomer, and what type of message it sends to them about the cost of the sport if everyone has their carpet car and their dirt car to compete in the same class. And if we have major championships on both those surfaces that is what will happen.

As someone who has run major meetings, On a 1-day meet we did 5 minutes maintenance per round. There are about 7 rounds in a day. So that's 35 minutes you're saving.

Personally I would do away with regular track maintenance before I would consider making such a radical change to the surface. Round-by-round maintenance came in to negate the problems of rocket round qualifying. We don't have rocket round qualifying anymore, we use an IFMAR qualifying system with points. So, there is no reason to have to equalise the rounds. The track should be allowed to develop.

Oh, and in terms of competitive race cars, presently I have 3. I have a 2WD Buggy, and 2 12th scale cars. One of the 12ths is new and unbuilt, and when I get around to building it I intend to sell the other one. So I will have one onroader and one offroader.

I also have two vintage cars that are keepsakes accumulated from 20 years of racing.