rhino

after discussions with several club members and officials from various clubs it came to my attention there is no national governing body for the above mentioned class

As I see it, each club runs different rules for the "Pull start class" which when traveling for special events can make it hard to comply with each clubs regulations.

I've also heard from several officials and club members the need for a steeping stone or mid range class between Pull Start and Pro Tourer.
As it was put to me today....

"The electric guys have 540 - Stock - Mod where as the gas guys have pull start or pro tourer"

Is there not room for the gas guys to have say 3 classes to progress through, for example

Pull Start -

Stock (Factory) chassis no hopups and an operational pull start up to .8hp (.12 & .15) engine
Basically an original car that hasn't been altered in anyway perhaps maybe a two speed ???

Examples would be -

Kyosho V-one-S, FW05T / S etc
HPI NITRO RS 4, 3

Gas Tourers -

Pro tourer type chassis allowed fully optioned with or without pull start, limited again to .8hp (.12 & .15 engine)
Basically any type of 1/10th 200mm chassis with any config but limiting engine to .8hp

Examples would be -

Kyosho V-one-R / RR / RRR, FW05R / RR
Mugen MRX
TEAM ASSOCIATED NTC3

Then you would move up to the Pro tourer league within a different organization such as IFMAR

This gives the gas guys a way to advance with out the big jump from pull start to pro tourer in much the same way as the electrics are run.

the idea is to combine the two classes under one set of rules this would entail the development of a national sanctioning body with nation wide rules developed for each class, it would then become each clubs decision to either belong and race under these rules or to continue to run as they currently are.

I understand this may not work, too many ideas and different situations for each club but at least it's in the open now and put up for discussion, if we can get an idea of peoples thoughts about this perhaps we can get this class nationally recognized and create a new one as the steeping stone????

Looking for your comments and or suggestions both good and bad.

vr01

From an Electric side there is only Stock and Mod touring car, 540 is not a nationally sanctioned class.

I'm not a nitro racer so I won't go into the details of your proposed classes, but why do you suggest to create a governing body?

You have a national governing body in AARCMCC. What you need to do is make a proposal for a new class to them. Probably better to pass it around all of the clubs to get their input and then collate it all together. The clubs would then vote for it.

Putting it up for discussion here is another excellent way of getting the rules "right".


Regards
Chris Peet
AARCMCC Electric Section

oldnitro

iTrader: (6)

rhino
as vr01 stated the govening body is already there it is AARCMCC.
I dont know how long you have been in 200mm nitro but when the origanal draft (No 3;31/07/2000)was bought out it included a 200mm Sport-Touring class.
All the technical specifications were the same except for the following:
Weight:
Min weight without fuel and transponder 1700 grams(excepting those competing ing Sport-Touring class with no pull start will be 1800 grams)
Tyres:
Sport-Touring:Moulded control tyres only are allowed.(a lot more is writtten basically on what type of tyre and how it is to be controlled)

appox 10.8.2001 Postal Votes were taken on the removal of reference to the all reference to Sport Touring Class
Proposal 1
Min weight without fuel & transponder to be 1700 grams(direct powered transponder tare allowed to be fitted)Remove all reference to Sport Touring
proposal accepted 5-0
Proposal 5 TYRES
Section 1 Remove reference to Sport Touring completly
Proposal accepted 4-1
These changes were bought about after the 2001 state titles i was in and the total confusing in scrutineering with the interpritation of the rules
I stil have copies of the draft rules and postal vote results
If you intend to put a proposal forward make sure it is well defined and good luck
Allan Johnson

rhino

ok 540 isn't a governed class however up here when we ran the QLD Electric titles early this year.... or was it late last year???? anyway they where involved and I believe there was and still is a QLD 540 champion.

As I am to understand it there is no pull start or pull start type national event and if you go to 3 or 4 differant clubs you'll find major rule differances.

Discussions have been going on up here for years on rules and reg's for this class and last year we ran the first interclub championship with what I thought was very successful however to this day the 3 major onroad clubs in Brisbane (example only) still run differant rules.

The new class for a gas tourer would be something in between pro tourer and pull start as previously stated with a national event....

I also just visited the AARCMCC 1/10TH I.C. 200mm NITRO TOURING CAR RULES page on the website, I noticed the .12 limitation???? are these rules for Pro Tourer or Pull Start? because we all know you can get a 1.3hp .12 engine and as far as I am aware no club that runs a pull start type class allows anything bigger than .8hp for example a OS - CV

SO I guess my arguement is....

Is there actual rules pertaining to a pull start type class because as far as I can tell there are not but rather a set of rules that leave a lot open for variance like the hp rating.

The second is the fact that many racers feel that the gas guys need a mid range class something between the pull start and pro tourer or open class as it's called, we need a class where there guys can mod up there gas tourers, run non pull starts while keeping the .8hp limitation, they can run any type of gear they like while keeping within say the 1800gram weight limit?????

So does the AARCMCC actually have a gas tourer national event like the Pro tourer class and how many other people would be intrested in running a open type gas tourer limiting only engine size in hp not cc????

I dont know, perhaps I'm way off here

Havago Racing

iTrader: (3)

Rhino,
I hear what your saying and I think there is a few things that need to be clarified before the topic goes in the wrong direction.

AARCMCC IC Section only caters for one class: 1/10 200mmNT and that's it currently - (no entry level class or intermediate class).

I believe Rhino races at a non AARCMCC Affiliated club (not listed on AARCMCC Web site anyway) that races two classes for their 1/10th Scale Nitro Tourers. (As described in his initial post)

ORRCA Qld has already been asked to undertake the task of trying to develop a set of rules for the state of QLD that caters for two classes. So far, the work David Guyatt (Heavy) and representative from SEQ clubs put into the "Inter-club Challenge" last year may end up being the rules we adopt as official rules haven't been finalised yet. (Our regional clubs need to be able to add their input as well so that the rules suit the majority of racers effected)

For a racing scale that ORRCA Qld doesn't hold an annual state titles meet for, these rules are only aimed as a guide for affiliated clubs to use to help sort out the mess on club race days.

Adding a third class perhaps should be discussed more at your local track. A clear distinction is needed between classes with set methods of measuring the differences (ie HorsePower etc). You also need the demand to make it worthwhile - usually more that five.

My main question is WHY? - what is the driving force / idea for a third class?

P.S - I started this ramble before Rhino just posted so please excuse the double up on subject/topic.

rhino

Ok currently we run a A & B Gas Tourer it's not called Pull Start anymore because the committee has decided there's more than one way to start an engine, this sought of leads us to the question.

Our club has what I would say (and this is educated) the biggest following in SEQ / QLD maybe even AUS of this type of class, and it grows each and every meeting, most meets we run 3 full heats of tourers and in a few months this will likely become 4, my guess is it's due to the way the meeting is orginised and the track is best suited to this type of class, we even have pro tourer drivers droping down to race gas tourer basically because of the intence and compeditive racing on a somewhat even playing field.

This has opened a big can of worms....

The committee has on several occasions discussed the way in which this class is run and after talks today with several members alot wondered why gas only has two classes and only one in which has a national or even regional championship.
A idea sprung to a fellow racer, a very long time serving committee member who has many years experiance head....

Can we not have a thrid class.....

Class 1 Pull Start
Your basic run of the mill RTR Style car, no hopups limited to only pull start and a really good cheap place to start.

Class 2 Gas Tourers
More advanced racing pro style chassis with only minor limitations, 80% of our club currently run in this type of class while still running against a complete newbe, not that thats the bad thing, basically we'd like to give the new guys a good place to start, race against people of thier own ability therefor an increased chance of winning something.

Just look around, generally you would have 5 or so guys at any given club always winning, how much fun is that for a up in coming driver, this way if the new guy thinks he's up to it he can then move up a class, not straight into it....

Do you see where I'm going with this??????

The other thing was a national or even a regional championship, one thing I think the pull starters really lack, just about every other class has some form of championship, and yes the interclub was a good start but what ever happend to that????

I'm just looking to move this type of racing further, to be recognised on a national level as I believe it's one if not the fastest growing class in Australia.

aussie racer

iTrader: (-1)

this topic will go on for years till someone decides to push it further to make it or another class a national or state class.......
As you would see with our tamworth cup we hold this class which is very popular and have made different rule changes over the years... The major change for this class is the action of banning carbon modified optional parts ,the reason for this is you would be able to run any chassis really.....Another change was not to use starting aids---eg.bump start boxes....defeats the purpose of PULL START....
So if any one decides to follow this idea of classes to make it one rule class please let me know as will help with its organising........

moot

how would you measure 0.8hp? alot of rtr pull start cars are rated at a fair bit more than this. as an example,a hobao gpx4 is sposed to be 1.4hp from the factory (bit optimistic )

i think there should be a 3rd class too

bigtez

iTrader: (6)

check out the rules for the vortec series in victoria. i think they have the right idea when it comes to splitting the classes.
heres a very basic outline.
Class1: Pull start RTR's with a single speed transmission
Class2: As above with two speed transmission
Class3:Pro Tourers with Single speed transmission
Class4: Pro Tourers as per AARCMCC rules.
Perhaps a similar system could be adopted up here.
However i would suggest removing class3 and allowing faster motors in class2 eg up to 1hp. This would allow a more gradual transition between the classes. Heres how i see a typical progression going.
By an RTR and start racing almost immediately. When funds and skills are developed purchase a 2spd and move up a class. Further down the track after wearing out original engine a more powerful engine can be purchased.
I believ this would allow most people to progress through the classes at an affordable rate that allows for sufficient skill development to keep the racing clean and hack free.

Thats my 2c.

rhino

Now we're getting it!

So from what I can gather most of you like the third class progression scheme and bigtez while the vortec series system seems all good n well I dont think a single speed makes all that much differance espically at a small track, when I first started running pull start I ran a v1s with the factory single speed and was competitive, the only advantage with it is faster out of corners and saves the engine over reving down the straights????

I could be mistakin here but my opinion only!

Well there can only be a couple of cars in this catagorie and you'd have to draw a line somewhere, generally speaking the majority of RTR type cars are under .8hp

And it already has thats why I'm pushing it, I've asked around for a couple of months now and the only answer I get is the clubs cant decide on a set of rules????? thats bullshit and is easily fixed, run the AARCMCC 1/10TH I.C. 200mm NITRO TOURING CAR RULES with a limitation of .8hp just include the two differances between the pull start class and the proposed new class.

As Aussie Racer said the rules for the Tamworth Cup are good for the Pull Start Class hence the reason for my jorney down there to race, basically a stock standered Pull Start RTR car up to .8hp

I'd love to race my FW05RR as I do up in brissy but this is the variance between clubs so I'll have to race my v1sII again the reason for a second class.

We need a starting class for the new guys not wishing to spend much money and the Tamworth guys have that exactly right, again my opinion! the progression I think should be the way the BRCCC guys run, I mean all you have to do is look at the numbers this club get compared to any other SEQ club in this class, the progression dosent have to cost the racer anything either, say for example the racer in pull start is winning everything..... they can then move up to gas tourer without spending any money to start, if they would like to become more competitive start buying carbon perhaps droping he pull start even as much as buying a pro style chassis like the mugen?????

If you guys are intrested lets start by getting a set of rules together then submit it to AARCMCC, I'm sure with the way our club is run we'd be more than happy to try it out next season, committee desision pending of course, then once we have enough clubs running under the specified rules orginise state and even national championships????