AARCMCC I.C. Off-Road Rule Proposal
10-11-2011, 11:15 PM
#32
Now on the next five places that you mention we need to look back to our R/C heritage. Back in the day, electric offroad had 8 or ten cars direct into the A final and so on back through the field. The B final in particular was always a bit of a joke as it contained highly motivated individuals who no longer had the opportunity to aim for the top. By allowing five bump ups, there is always the opportunity to advance further.
10-11-2011, 11:30 PM
#33
i'm not too sure about it, there are some bits i like and others i am unsure off. I think when we look back at this years entries to state events there has been a definite impact due to the economy. In this respect i think the 3 day event is a good move and will reduce costs.
Entry fees should be made lower and should be consistent throughout the country, so that beginners into the sport do not get put off.
I believe that clubs should not be having warm up events at all on the track to be used for the main event. This just adds to the cost of the competitor if they wish to attend that event to gain an advantage.
I would also like to see the State Titles being held within a 2 hour drive of a major airport. I know each club deserves to have the opportunity to hold one of these events but again it adds to the cost and time of getting to an event.
No rules are ever going to please everyone but whatever rules are in place should be for the benefit of the sport and to encourage new people into it.
Entry fees should be made lower and should be consistent throughout the country, so that beginners into the sport do not get put off.
I believe that clubs should not be having warm up events at all on the track to be used for the main event. This just adds to the cost of the competitor if they wish to attend that event to gain an advantage.
I would also like to see the State Titles being held within a 2 hour drive of a major airport. I know each club deserves to have the opportunity to hold one of these events but again it adds to the cost and time of getting to an event.
No rules are ever going to please everyone but whatever rules are in place should be for the benefit of the sport and to encourage new people into it.
10-12-2011, 02:25 AM
#34
maybe the proposal should be split into 3 or 4 seperate units.
average joe racer wants to attend something special for his first state title and not have the superstars screeming at him to get out of the way or abuse as a marshall which 7mins and top ten straight through will become the noem and you will lose even more attendees.
you may have spoken to full blooded racer but you have made no atttempt to find out what would get the 32nd and onward drivers to attend. I have received many phone calls about this proposal and im sure will receive a few from my sponsors too but hey i guess i will not require them if this proposal goes through.
whatever proposal has less track time and ABC finals will receive a huge negative from me.
could we also see some transparency in what the clubs vote too.
Tony Nettleton
average joe racer wants to attend something special for his first state title and not have the superstars screeming at him to get out of the way or abuse as a marshall which 7mins and top ten straight through will become the noem and you will lose even more attendees.
you may have spoken to full blooded racer but you have made no atttempt to find out what would get the 32nd and onward drivers to attend. I have received many phone calls about this proposal and im sure will receive a few from my sponsors too but hey i guess i will not require them if this proposal goes through.
whatever proposal has less track time and ABC finals will receive a huge negative from me.
could we also see some transparency in what the clubs vote too.
Tony Nettleton
10-12-2011, 02:55 AM
#36
Why do people "have" to travel to 4 events?
The AARCMCC National Championship Series shall consist of 4 pre-nominated AARCMCC State Championship events and the AARCMCC Australian Championship event (5 rounds total)
the races are 7 mins so as to fit into a 3 day sheduale... not so superstars can out sprint anyone.. as Most "superstars normally still do well over 10 mins"
and the superstars that cannot keep their car intact for longer than 15mins will deny someone a spot in the Amain
Un the USA all of there nationals and major event are run the same as our new rule proposal.
We are not the USA
Our national championships will still stay the same as
ifmar.
Maybe im reading it wrong
The AARCMCC National Championship Series shall consist of 4 pre-nominated AARCMCC State Championship events and the AARCMCC Australian Championship event (5 rounds total)
The AARCMCC National Championship Series shall consist of 4 pre-nominated AARCMCC State Championship events and the AARCMCC Australian Championship event (5 rounds total)
the races are 7 mins so as to fit into a 3 day sheduale... not so superstars can out sprint anyone.. as Most "superstars normally still do well over 10 mins"
and the superstars that cannot keep their car intact for longer than 15mins will deny someone a spot in the Amain
Un the USA all of there nationals and major event are run the same as our new rule proposal.
We are not the USA
Our national championships will still stay the same as
ifmar.
Maybe im reading it wrong
The AARCMCC National Championship Series shall consist of 4 pre-nominated AARCMCC State Championship events and the AARCMCC Australian Championship event (5 rounds total)
10-12-2011, 03:16 AM
#37
Tech Adept
The National Championship event will remain the same as it is now, run over 4 days with 10 minute qualifiers and christmas tree finals. The aim of this proposal is to reduce State Title events to 3 days, which is what everybody has been asking for over the past 2 years so that people can attend more events as they have to take less time off work. Under the current rules, EVERY state title counts towards the National point series, so to do well in the pointscore you have to attend EVERY state title as well as the buggy and truggy national titles. Under the new proposal, only 4 of the state titles plus the nationals will count towards the pointscore, encouraging more people to attend those events.
10-12-2011, 03:20 AM
#38
I'm with you Shifty , good points.
Numbers are dropping. Work is getting harder for a lot of people to get the time off and the race fees need to be kept balanced and resonable for all to attend.
3 days instead of 4 , great step to help encourage more numbers.
I think a national series for the Pro's to crown the champion like the majority of sports is fantastic . A lot of sports you need to qualify to go to the Nationals (Pro). Do we want it to be a sport or a hobby ?
Pro and sportsman is a must . A race in a race encourages participants .
The chances to win something is appealing to a lot of people.
For the top 10 qualifiers going straight through , can't comment , haven't been there.
I'm all for change , if it doesn't work try something different again.
Numbers are dropping. Work is getting harder for a lot of people to get the time off and the race fees need to be kept balanced and resonable for all to attend.
3 days instead of 4 , great step to help encourage more numbers.
I think a national series for the Pro's to crown the champion like the majority of sports is fantastic . A lot of sports you need to qualify to go to the Nationals (Pro). Do we want it to be a sport or a hobby ?
Pro and sportsman is a must . A race in a race encourages participants .
The chances to win something is appealing to a lot of people.
For the top 10 qualifiers going straight through , can't comment , haven't been there.
I'm all for change , if it doesn't work try something different again.
10-12-2011, 03:24 AM
#39
I like the idea. 7min qualifying takes pressure off needing a pitman. Frees up more people to marshal. I also like the A B C finals as you would have to beat everyone on your way to the final, you don't get to miss racing against people because they are in the A or B group of the tree.
If track time is such an issue perhaps an extra round of practice between qualifying and finals, it could easily be removed if time was an issue?
Three day events would for sure encourage me to come along to more events, and the fact that attending only 5 events allows me to compete fully in a national championship also makes it more attractive to get along in coming years (once I'm done with uni).
Also what is the definition of a 'sportsman' racer? Non-sponsored?
If track time is such an issue perhaps an extra round of practice between qualifying and finals, it could easily be removed if time was an issue?
Three day events would for sure encourage me to come along to more events, and the fact that attending only 5 events allows me to compete fully in a national championship also makes it more attractive to get along in coming years (once I'm done with uni).
Also what is the definition of a 'sportsman' racer? Non-sponsored?
10-12-2011, 03:45 AM
#40
Tony,
I'm sure we all appreciate your point of view so thank you for sharing it.
My view is that this proposal is good no matter what level you race. Actually, I think for the first time, it swings the amount of potential track time back toward the lower level racers. Let me explain. If you manage to bump up you will have competed in two races in the finals with a potential for more, the top 10 will only race in one (I accept that the duration is longer but this has always been the case). Keep this very quiet though as we don't want to let these guys know that we are stealing some of there track time to give to the average guy.
But there is more! The proposal also includes a new 'sportsman' final to further reward the average guy for showing up and having a go.
Over the three days, the track time will be used to the full by maximising the number of qualifying rounds (between 4 and 6) so no matter what the race length, I don't think you can increase further your bang for your buck.
Cheers
Chris
I'm sure we all appreciate your point of view so thank you for sharing it.
My view is that this proposal is good no matter what level you race. Actually, I think for the first time, it swings the amount of potential track time back toward the lower level racers. Let me explain. If you manage to bump up you will have competed in two races in the finals with a potential for more, the top 10 will only race in one (I accept that the duration is longer but this has always been the case). Keep this very quiet though as we don't want to let these guys know that we are stealing some of there track time to give to the average guy.
But there is more! The proposal also includes a new 'sportsman' final to further reward the average guy for showing up and having a go.
Over the three days, the track time will be used to the full by maximising the number of qualifying rounds (between 4 and 6) so no matter what the race length, I don't think you can increase further your bang for your buck.
Cheers
Chris
10-12-2011, 03:45 AM
#41
No offence taken
Any three day format will involve less track time. There's no way around that, short of running under lights- and there goes the capped entry fees. From most of the feedback, 3 minutes a heat and the top ten (effectively) forfeitting a semi final seems to be worth one less day off work, accommodation, car hire, etc.
We've been asked by the AARCMCC general executive not to make each club's vote public (assuming this is what you're suggesting?). None of the proposals (since at least 2008-odd) have done this either. Short of outing who voted for what, we're happy to do whatever to prove fairness and transparency.
10-12-2011, 04:50 AM
#42
Tech Fanatic
With the A,B,C finals if, for example, we got 7 lower buggy final (A,B,C,D,E,F,G) and just 3 truggy final (A,B,C), we can put the B and C truggy between the F_G and E_F buggy. In the new proposal i can not find the rule that explain what is going to happen if someone bump up from the E to the D buggy final when there are not any truggy left to put between the to buggy final.
There will be a set of time between the two final ?.
"Race organiser's discretion" is not an answer because we need a CLEAR rule that has to be followed wherever we go and from every "Race organiser".
Thank you
There will be a set of time between the two final ?.
"Race organiser's discretion" is not an answer because we need a CLEAR rule that has to be followed wherever we go and from every "Race organiser".
Thank you
10-12-2011, 03:40 PM
#43
Tech Master
maybe the proposal should be split into 3 or 4 seperate units.
average joe racer wants to attend something special for his first state title and not have the superstars screeming at him to get out of the way or abuse as a marshall which 7mins and top ten straight through will become the noem and you will lose even more attendees.
Well as you know Tony....... I have been to a lot more races around the country than you and while I am happy to admit some of your so called "superstars" are quite abusive to be quite frank I have seen more than the my fair share of your so called "average joe racer" shouting their abuse to marshalls and the race director
you may have spoken to full blooded racer but you have made no atttempt to find out what would get the 32nd and onward drivers to attend. I have received many phone calls about this proposal and im sure will receive a few from my sponsors too but hey i guess i will not require them if this proposal goes through.
Actually at the Nationals held in Sydney this year there were more average racers at the AGM than your so called "Superstars" and they voted for this change.
whatever proposal has less track time and ABC finals will receive a huge negative from me.
As Chris has stated in actual fact we are reducinig the racing time for the fast guys
could we also see some transparency in what the clubs vote too.
This has been a issue for some time, my ideal goal would be for every club member who's club is a member of AARCMCC would get a vote.
However, this would mean a massive upgrade of the website which of course costs money which of course no one want's to pay by increased fees etc.
Tony Nettleton
average joe racer wants to attend something special for his first state title and not have the superstars screeming at him to get out of the way or abuse as a marshall which 7mins and top ten straight through will become the noem and you will lose even more attendees.
Well as you know Tony....... I have been to a lot more races around the country than you and while I am happy to admit some of your so called "superstars" are quite abusive to be quite frank I have seen more than the my fair share of your so called "average joe racer" shouting their abuse to marshalls and the race director
you may have spoken to full blooded racer but you have made no atttempt to find out what would get the 32nd and onward drivers to attend. I have received many phone calls about this proposal and im sure will receive a few from my sponsors too but hey i guess i will not require them if this proposal goes through.
Actually at the Nationals held in Sydney this year there were more average racers at the AGM than your so called "Superstars" and they voted for this change.
whatever proposal has less track time and ABC finals will receive a huge negative from me.
As Chris has stated in actual fact we are reducinig the racing time for the fast guys
could we also see some transparency in what the clubs vote too.
This has been a issue for some time, my ideal goal would be for every club member who's club is a member of AARCMCC would get a vote.
However, this would mean a massive upgrade of the website which of course costs money which of course no one want's to pay by increased fees etc.
Tony Nettleton
Mark
10-12-2011, 03:51 PM
#44
Tech Master
With the A,B,C finals if, for example, we got 7 lower buggy final (A,B,C,D,E,F,G) and just 3 truggy final (A,B,C), we can put the B and C truggy between the F_G and E_F buggy. In the new proposal i can not find the rule that explain what is going to happen if someone bump up from the E to the D buggy final when there are not any truggy left to put between the to buggy final.
There will be a set of time between the two final ?.
"Race organiser's discretion" is not an answer because we need a CLEAR rule that has to be followed wherever we go and from every "Race organiser".
Thank you
There will be a set of time between the two final ?.
"Race organiser's discretion" is not an answer because we need a CLEAR rule that has to be followed wherever we go and from every "Race organiser".
Thank you
And yes I agree Race Directors Discretion has to go
Cheers
Mark
10-12-2011, 04:07 PM
#45
Originally Posted by Wild Thing
This has been a issue for some time, my ideal goal would be for every club member who's club is a member of AARCMCC would get a vote.
What you desperately want to avoid is people who have been a member of a club for 5 minutes texting their vote in like they are voting for their favourite act on The X Factor.
The direction of the sport and its rules cannot be a popularity contest. What is required are careful considered decisions from responsible people.
The situation in EP works reasonably well -- each club gets a vote. The members of the clubs elect their officials who are generally the ones who make the call on which way to vote. Those are the people club members trust with the running of their clubs, and those are the people who are responsible enough to do the proper research and thinking on each proposal.