Spec Classes 2012
 

Just thought I might throw this out and see what people think..

With some talk of 21.5 going non-timed next year as an entry level class, we've tried locally a TC class using the Hobbywing mini brushless system. Good speed, and very close racing. We figure it would make a good cheap class to run with many people possibly not racing mini, but having the running gear sitting around. Keep other rules as they are, with GT bodies etc, just specify power system.

Any thoughts?

I believe there are a few sydney clubs running zero timing 21.5 now. They seem to enjoy some very close racing which is the whole point of spec racing. That said I see very little difference in performance in "Boosted" 17.5 these days anyway. Most people have very similar power and speed regardless of their system. The only problem is people still blow stuff up.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png

To be easy going we let Minis run anything down to a 17.5 competing with the HW system at Club Meetings (it's astroturf so lots of power just means more traction rolling anyway), but we don't encourage it.

If you want to run cheaply with an ESC/motor combo then put a 540 in and run brushed. The low end spec TC class in NSW is going to be non-boosted 21.5 (at least this was the feeling at the last CC round), and 540s can run with that.

For a club meeting, sure, let people run the HW system, but don't encourage it, we have enough classes as it is. The reason this system wasn't chosen as a spec TC class to begin with is because cogging can be a serious issue if you want to gear the car optimally. So, you'll want to control the gearing too if you want to use it.

What we need for good racing is numbers in classes. Splitting the numbers we have into too many groups diminishes the racing. If you just get everyone to run the 21.5 or Stock formats instead of going a separate way then we all benefit.

We've been running 21.5 blinky for a year now and it's become our most popular class. The racing is very close, the speed is accesible to novices stepping up, and the racers love being able to choose their own brands. It's been a real success story for our club :nod:

+1 Craig

21.5 non timed at SMA is a great class, excellent numbers and some very close racing.

No restrictions to one individual brand for motor and speedy lets the racer step up to the next class by just throwing in another motor and away they go.

Ohhh somebody did win with a 540 can as well one night, so they aren't that far behind

Not to mention the success on the 2011 NSW State Titles. Best racing I have ever been involved in. Rally X is up there as well :D

Nice cartoon RA :D

I tend to agree with the shift towards blinky 21.5 class as a viable replacement for the venerable 540 motors. I like racing in 540 as it is quick enough for my skill level and still relatively "cheaper" then some other classes, however due to the inconsistency in the performance of each 540 motor it can just be as expensive to get that 1 motor that performs.

Yes some 21.5 motors may be "better" then others but I believe some perform better at different tracks and/or track layouts etc.
That's where half the fun is I believe, matching a motor to the track and your driving style etc. :)
Another plus is with no brushes there's less maintenance and if you want to change the bearings you can do that too.

Cheers
Rob.

we have been running 540 for novice and pro, 21.5t no boost for Vintage touring cars, 21.5t boosted, 13.5t boosted and mod

i have just received a 3rd car to try the "Ultra Sportsman V3.0 Brushless Motor - 21.5R" on blinky mode to see if it's a even pace to replace the 540 motor at club level

We haven't had any real issues with cogging though maybe we're not pushing them as hard as others. We found them to be reliable, certainly more so than some of the turbo systems running now, nobody has popped one in a tourer yet, and the speed is similar to an old 27t stock system on our track. From my point of view, it made sense anyway. We're not necessarily talking about adding another class, if 21.5 becomes the new 540, this class could be the 21.5 replacement.

4 Motor classes is too many. One of the main reasons the club delegates at the CC round table discussion were in favour of a combined non-boosted 21.5/540 class was to reduce the number of classes and by doing so improve the racing.

There does not need to be a level between entry level and Stock. If we ever get to the situation where 4 classes are necessary the sport will be in trouble in this country. Too many classes dilutes the pool of racers we have, and smaller clubs can't handle this.

We want the classes to be the same everywhere so we can travel and race at other clubs, and compete in series with each other. This goal is actually enshrined in the AARCMCC constitution, and they've got the top end and mid-level classes covered. If the rest of us can agree on one entry level class then all the better.

IMO the sanctioned classes need to be blinky 21.5(open speedy and motor), 17.5 open and mod. Gives somewhere for slower/less cash spending racers to compete at an agreed standard or performance at "big" meets, be it state or national level. Then step to a more serious level of performance for 17.5 before having all of thier shortcomings realised when they go to mod.... not that I am speaking from experience:spidey:

Blinky 21.5 may be the saviour of EP onroad. It is cheap enough to get going in, has options at a club level to run with older style motors and is quick enough to maintain interest until they can handle the extra pace of the 17.5's.

The big point here is that clubs need to encourage the purchase of the appropriate gear when people start turning up-they really need to push the point that a speedy that can do blinky and boost is the most vital element in thier racing setup as it allows them to develop thier speedy tuning skills as the driving and setup abilities increase.

Once a blinky racer wants go go a bit faster there is nothing stopping them putting boost on thier current gear and running with the 17.5 guys for a bit. From what I have seen there is bugger all difference with the pace on most tracks in any regard, so they will still be able to have a race and get the feel for the more complex tuning requirements before laying down hard earned on new motors etc. Once they have decided that it is for them then they can get into it more.

So for about couple of hundred bucks for a motor/speedy that will be graet at club days in blinky 21.5 yet still able to be run at a bigger event also, yet let them dip their toe into faster classes if they need to.

The major issue with this motor class split is that there is still some differences between AARCMCC and state organisations-especially the victorians with 13.5 as thier stock class and various 540 rules for beginners and people who want to race slower clsses, but I feel that this will always be the case regardless of what happens on a national level.

I agree that 4 motor classes will kill EP onroad, but a sanctioned starter class is still required to formalise what most forward thinking clubs are doing at the moment in any regard. Even 3 is too many, but the speed and experience needed to compete in 17.5 nowdays is way too much for a person new to the sport to get on top of quickly, but blinky 21.5 allows them to focus on the other parts of racing at sanctioned events wthout the stress and worry of having thier ass handed to them on the track and needing to work on car setup, speedy setup and driving all at the same time-at least blinky removes the speedy setup part of the equation and will allow them to also have the time to get a feel for the other fun elements of the sport-especially in the pits and watching the quick guys run around.

Just re-read this and apoligise for the length... if you made it this far well done:lol:

I made it to the end, and agree with pretty much everything you posted.

The only point I'm not so sure about is making the entry level class a full sanctioned class. In my experience if you run a class at that level it stops being cheap, and retains better drivers in it for longer. I used to run 540 offroad at National level and it was incredibly expensive because the light weight parts you wouldn't use in Mod because they were too fragile were a necessity in the slower classes. You also needed to make sure you had the absolute best packs (that's less of a factor these days, but you will still need new packs).

I'm happy enough having the entry level class selected as a demonstration class at these meetings. Perhaps there is room to remove the entry cap (or the number of support classes cap) at less well attended meetings to enable the entry level class to run more regularly.

With regard to the State bodies running different rules, my hope is that at some point that will stop being the case, that those State bodies will decide to move toward running the National rule set, and at the same time become more active within AARCMCC making proposals to get the rule set closer to something that suits everyone.

We run 21.5 no timing, 17.5 no timing and mod. Good spread of guys through the field.
21.5 is cheap to get into, you can get the excellent speed passion cirtix 21.5 combo for around $130 now, and properly geared beats most 540 silvercans. No one runs 540 silvercans at our track anymore in that class.
The new breed of 17.5 motors with timing on the motor provides enough adjustment in the stock class and nice learning curve up from 21.5.
I think the hobbywing 13.5 motor/speedy combo is ok for mini, but compared to the price of the justock speedy and v3 speed passion motors its quality lacks a bit.
I personally think there are too many options, but unfortunatly with the amount of motors and combos we are blessed/cursed with choice and need to make some hard decisions.
I think club race days should be limited to three classes, with larger meets over a few days open to 5 or six classes. Seems to work reasonably well for our local club days and the bigger interclub events.
I think if there is too much confusion, and rules changing to often, people will leave the sport, as it costs far too much as it is, and if we have to throw gear away at the end of a season as it is not legal to run anymore people will leave and go drifting or something cheaper