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Real Stock On Road Racing...

Real Stock On Road Racing...

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Old 04-05-2010, 05:26 PM
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Default Real Stock On Road Racing...

I know there has already been a thread started about On Road racing, but this thread sole aim would be to get conversations about a true Stock Spec race series start.


Stand on Soap Box

Can anyone else tell me if your club is suffering from this problem…

Someone interested in starting onroad racing arrives at the club to see what it is all about, we start to tell them about the different classes this is always why there is Mini’s running round the track we explain this is a good starting point it is a cheap and fun way to race..

After a while the fast TC come out they always go “WOW!!! I want some of that!!” when you then start to explain it is 21.5 the entry level / novice class (in most clubs) and someone is running a Tekin 203 with x12 21.5 which sounds like a jet..

There faces drop when they think they need to compete against them, never mind the starting costs. The X12 and Tekin RS will set you back $400.00 + don’t forget a car and radio and battery and charger. Don’t make it so appealing when you need to sell the wife and kids to start a hobby – saying that there was a guy on RcTech trying just that LOL

At this point most of the guys interested in starting think get a RTR car and smash it around outside there home...

The sport dies … may OnRoad RIP…..

I know this is very extreme

In a way it is happening no club out there can say the number are growing, as a person starts 2 people stop just because of cost’s of they fed up of getting bigger and bigger credit card bills just to compete, I was talking to one of our locals who is a good driver and he was telling he already spend $$$ this year but unless he buys a Tekin and x12 he is not going to be able to compete and he would rather just stop and spend the money else where.

Off Soap Box

Where this conversation is going!!!

At Windsor we have decided no club can keep going like this to keep going we need fresh blood, new starter people who want drive though the ranks.

Most important keep the club’s going

To do this with the help of local suppliers Vemon and Feral batteries they have supplied us two choices of combo’s,… Which are being tested by a number of people in the club. The long term aim would be to start a season where these combos are starting point for novices also some more experienced drivers to compete on a level playing field.The cost of the systems would be less than $140 RRP

We have found the suppliers what we need now is more buy in from clubs and fellow racers.

We are not asking for anyone to stop racing Tekin,LRP, Advanced Electrics, Team Wave, Castle or even GM ESC we are wanting a True Stock Racing event where everyone and anyone has a chance to win, some wheel to wheel racing and somewhere for the new starter to get a chance at close racing and learn even more have a great race and keep coming back.The argument about having to buy a new ESC when the racer eventually moves to the next class is void as the cost of the new class motor is the same as the combo price, not to mention the fact that for most a new model ESC is released every year or so, as such their old speedie would be all but useless to compete in the new class.

Here are the True Stock Spec Combo's, we are happy to test more if there a need for it.

Hobbywing 35 amp sensoreless speed control and 1450kv 380 size Sensoreless motor.

Venom (TZW manufactured) 60 amp sensored speedie, with venom 21.5t sensored (Feigao manufactured) motor.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:17 PM
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Good stuff Alex, its seems after only 19 posts the other thread lost its way.

Shore up the entry level classes and the rest will eventually take care of itself.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:27 PM
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Yeah I agree with this. I just want to race people on equal footing. I want racing where the depth of your skill gets you through, not the depth of your wallet. Will such a "true stock" class be just at Windsor, or at say SMA and Ryde too?
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:33 PM
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Isn't that class called 540 Silvercan?

I understand there is a marked difference in the motors etc - and then someone with a brushed only speedy would then need to buy another one before they went to stock, but in all honesty, someone who runs this new fangled 'spec' intro class, would be STUPID not to go out and buy a Tekin if they were going to move up anyhow.

Why are we all trying to reinvent the wheel?
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by reconrc View Post
Yeah I agree with this. I just want to race people on equal footing. I want racing where the depth of your skill gets you through, not the depth of your wallet. Will such a "true stock" class be just at Windsor, or at say SMA and Ryde too?
We are just testing a system at Windsor

Really hoping that SMA, Ryde and other clubs round Australia take on the concept..

Don't really want to take you away from your normal club but should want to test drive the system for youself would be happy to lend you one of them for an evening to test it out, just ask you give some feedback in return?

PM me if you are intrested.

Alex
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:38 PM
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Well said.

There needs to be a category where we can get novies (like myself) a chance to run TC's in a cost contained atmosphere.

I hope the Windsor idea takes off and other clubs jump on it. it has to be the way forwards

Jason
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by NT View Post
Isn't that class called 540 Silvercan?

I understand there is a marked difference in the motors etc - and then someone with a brushed only speedy would then need to buy another one before they went to stock, but in all honesty, someone who runs this new fangled 'spec' intro class, would be STUPID not to go out and buy a Tekin if they were going to move up anyhow.

Why are we all trying to reinvent the wheel?

Arrrr a Tekin driver you can just tell....

Why are we all trying to reinvent the wheel?

Seem this kinda negativity is the reason why this series of racing will not take off...

Maybe we should ask people who are starting up in the sport to spend $400 + on a Tekin and Tekin 21.5 in this case..

Or as I pointed out there are few club which run a 540 can event most don't because not enough people turn up...

How about we try and get people into the sport before it dies off from everyone needing a Tekin or the Next big thing to keep up.. No good if you cannot drive the dam thing first.

Stock Spec is an idea the world is driving for this reason, we need to fix it now else there will be 20 people racing Tekin's round a track why everyone remembers the good old times.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:50 PM
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Blame your club for allowing 21.5. Up in QLD 3 clubs tested 21.5 and it was shut down and we continued to run 540 brushed motors and the competition is quite close and new comers dont need a degree in esc technology to have fun. At the end of the day the new guys just need to focus on their driving not the speed they can get out of the car and thats the problem right there.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by reconrc View Post
Yeah I agree with this. I just want to race people on equal footing. I want racing where the depth of your skill gets you through, not the depth of your wallet. Will such a "true stock" class be just at Windsor, or at say SMA and Ryde too?

Hiya, Windsor have been the first to take up the ball in the search for a suitable solution, the 2 Tony's are also looking at it for Vic.
At the MACCA's meeting it was bought up as an issue for the national body, and it was pointed out that it is an even greater issue in offroad.
I would like to see a nationwide universal adoption of a true spec class, both on and offroad.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by vazzo View Post
Blame your club for allowing 21.5. Up in QLD 3 clubs tested 21.5 and it was shut down and we continued to run 540 brushed motors and the competition is quite close and new comers dont need a degree in esc technology to have fun. At the end of the day the new guys just need to focus on their driving not the speed they can get out of the car and thats the problem right there.
Ok so you are running the 540 event...

Do you using a Tekin powered 540??

Not having a pop just asking the question, wanting to find out how it performs with 540 can.

Never raced in QLD so some feedback here would be good, do you run a 540 as a state title event?
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by vazzo View Post
Blame your club for allowing 21.5. Up in QLD 3 clubs tested 21.5 and it was shut down and we continued to run 540 brushed motors and the competition is quite close and new comers dont need a degree in esc technology to have fun. At the end of the day the new guys just need to focus on their driving not the speed they can get out of the car and thats the problem right there.

Long term 540 racing is perfect for absolute beginners, but as a racing class it has already been disproven a million times as a cheap level playing field.

Unfortunately some people in the know bought in 21.5 as a 540 replacement, without proper consultation, this has been doubly affected by the significant increase in speed via software in the last 6 months.
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:12 PM
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Yes our club suffers from this problem, just on a smaller scale than most. As we struggle for numbers at the best of times, but this whole class thing doesn't help.

But I think the real problem is the naming of the classes. If you are new to the sport and look at 540 pro and stock you are going to think that stock is a lower class than 540 pro. We have a new group of people who want to run a single make class with some cheap $200 RTR cars. But straight away there was a problem where they seen the cars as stock out of the box, watched out stock class and realized they had no way of keeping up. So you end up having to explain to them how it all works, and confusing them even more, and it gets them starting to think they need to spend $1000 just to start racing. Why I think this is great, I can see that give it two weeks and they will be off buying something else to compete in stock/super stock. We currently have a real small field of 540 cars. I have run 540 from the start of the year, and will most likely drop it soon to concentrate on stock and mini. As after all the mini is just as quick or quicker than the 540 most of the time.

Maybe the real solution to the problem from a beginners point of view is a renaming of the classes. Rename stock to 17.5 or something along those lines and clear up the confusion.
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Me_MrTyson View Post
Ok so you are running the 540 event...

Do you using a Tekin powered 540??

Not having a pop just asking the question, wanting to find out how it performs with 540 can.

Never raced in QLD so some feedback here would be good, do you run a 540 as a state title event?
Just on that here in Victoria our Club Hosted the 2009 Vic Titles Last Year with 540 Silvercan we had 22 Entries 2009 Harris Classic we had 13 540 Pro & 6 Novice ( Silvercan ) 2010 we held the Flight Centre Classic and had 15 540 Pro Entries - We dont seem to have a Problem attracting Silvercan Entrants here - Will be interesting to see what the Vic Titles at Templestowe attract in May I know they are running 540Pro with a handout Motor $15-$20 pretty good value i recon..... Thats why i am surprised to hear that the 2 Tony's are testing Brushless Combo's here ...

I really don't see these cheap combo's helping anything here in Victoria or at our Club anyway ...

Do RTR Cars now coming out with BL Systems or Silvercans ? Maybe if they are coming out BL combos could have some merit here ..

BTW I don't run the Silvercan Classes ... Just going on what I see at our Club which is obvisouly going against the trends and growing each year for the past 5 Years !!
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by lupin_au View Post
Yes our club suffers from this problem, just on a smaller scale than most. As we struggle for numbers at the best of times, but this whole class thing doesn't help.

But I think the real problem is the naming of the classes. If you are new to the sport and look at 540 pro and stock you are going to think that stock is a lower class than 540 pro. We have a new group of people who want to run a single make class with some cheap $200 RTR cars. But straight away there was a problem where they seen the cars as stock out of the box, watched out stock class and realized they had no way of keeping up. So you end up having to explain to them how it all works, and confusing them even more, and it gets them starting to think they need to spend $1000 just to start racing. Why I think this is great, I can see that give it two weeks and they will be off buying something else to compete in stock/super stock. We currently have a real small field of 540 cars. I have run 540 from the start of the year, and will most likely drop it soon to concentrate on stock and mini. As after all the mini is just as quick or quicker than the 540 most of the time.

Maybe the real solution to the problem from a beginners point of view is a renaming of the classes. Rename stock to 17.5 or something along those lines and clear up the confusion.
Good Post, we knew it was more than one club suffering thanks for the feedback

When I talk about the classes these day 10.5, 17.5 or 21.5 is the only way to refer to them...

SMA ran a stock challenge so we all ran 17.5 for a evening to find a base setup.

That night we found 17.5 was able to get a lap record the same time as a 10.5 for that reason we are all still running 17.5 mainly because it is the biggest class but if we can post them times why bother with 10.5..

Saying that the racing is close and very quick so is just as much fun..

So there is still a place for mod, 10.5, 17.5 and 21.5 but the whole in the market is a class which is used on a National Level where the winner is becuase they can drive and found a good setup

Being on a level playing field same motor and same esc the rest is down to car setup and yourself.

Not because they worked out on the laptop how to make the car run with NOS.
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:32 PM
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I think pressure needs to be put on LRP Tekin etc to produce a non programable spec speed controller. I'm sure there'll be resistance from Tekin.

Seeing as there is such a small difference between 21.5 & 17.5.

There should be:

Mod - Unlimited motor - Programable ESC
Super Stock - Spec motor - Programable ESC
Stock - Spec motor - Spec non-programable ESC

With regards to 540, well it seems pretty simple to stick with a silver can. I have never used one myself but what's the issue seeing as most ESC's can run Brushed & BL.
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