AARCMCC Rule Changes Proposed by MORCC
01-30-2009, 12:56 PM
#1
AARCMCC Rule Changes Proposed by MORCC
Below is the full text of rules changes proposed by the Maitland Onroad/Offroad Radio Car Club to AARCMCC. All of these rules relate to 'EP Racing Format' section of the rules set.
The proposals were finalised with AARCMCC before Christmas and will shortly be sent out to clubs for their vote on each of them. I have posted them here to allow the users of this board to debate them in anticipation of a full discussion with their clubs.
Note: I've done my best to duplicate the formatting used in the submission but some things are still imperfect (the table in proposal 8 for instance).
__________________________________________________ __________
The Maitland On/Offroad Radio Car Club considers the upkeep and relevance of the national rule set to be of the utmost importance and would therefore like to make the following twelve (12) proposals to the AARCMCC.
Rules Proposals for AARCMCC EP Racing Format
Proposal 1: Define Last Lap Time-Out
Currently:
1.2.1 Races will be 5 minutes plus the completion of the last lap, with the exceptions of 1/12th scale racing, which will be 8 min plus the last lap.
Change to:
1.2.1 Races will be 5 minutes plus the completion of the last lap, with the exceptions of 1/12th scale racing, which will be 8 min plus the last lap.
The time-out for the last lap will be determined by the race organisers prior to the event, who will announce that duration at the drivers’ meeting prior to the commencement of racing.
In determining the time-out duration the organisers should use as a guide a typical lap time for the slowest class raced at the meeting, then add 5 to 10 seconds. Example: If 2wd Stock typically completes a lap in 27 seconds, the time-out duration is set at 35 seconds.
Justification of Proposal:
Currently all electronic timing has a time-out duration for the final lap but no guidelines exist for determining what it should be. Competitors should be allowed a finite but ample time to complete their final lap.
Proposal 2: Reduce Minimum Number of Heats at National Titles
Currently:
1.2.5 There will be a minimum of four (4) maximum six (6) rounds of heats at State Championships and a minimum of six rounds of heats at a Nationals. Note: The minimum number of qualifying heats at a National event can be reduced to four, due to bad weather or time issues with the agreement of the State Jury.
Change to:
1.2.5 Organisers will plan for a minimum of four (4) and a maximum of six (6) heats at both State and National Titles. In the event of bad weather or a similar unplanned for and unavoidable delay, the minimum number of heats may be reduced to three (3) but no less, with the agreement of the State Jury.
Justification of Proposal:
This is what we have been doing at National and State titles in Offroad for over a decade, it's time the rules actually reflected the reality of Australian racing instead of copying World Title rules.
Proposal 3: Define Impounded Transmitter Access
Add new rule:
1.7.4 Charging of transmitter batteries or changing of same, will be allowed whilst the transmitter is impounded under the supervision of a scrutineer or race official. Similarly, adjustments requiring the use of the radio may also be allowed under supervision, once the scrutineer/race official is satisfied that no interference with competing vehicles is possible.
Justification of Proposal:
It is common sense to allow competitors to adjust and maintain their equipment if it can be done under supervision. Situations have been encountered where a competitor has not been allowed to re-centre a servo and has thus missed a heat, for instance. We seek to remove this unfair circumstance.
Proposal 4: Protest Time-Out Increase
Currently:
1.9.2 Must be done within ten minutes after the display of the results or the occasion it concerns, in writing and with a AUS$50 protest fee. Protest must be in English. The time of the display will be written on the result sheets and protests must be made within ten minutes of that time. The protest fee is forfeited if the protest is not upheld, and returned if justified. The protest may be given to the Race Director or to an AARCMCC official. Protests are processed by the Race Director and if necessary the State Jury.
Appeals against the Race Director’s decision may be made to AARCMCC. AARCMCC is obliged to handle such an appeal.
Change to:
1.9.2 An 'official protest' must be made within twenty-five (25) minutes after the display of the results or the occasion it concerns, in writing and with a AUS$50 protest fee. Protest must be in English. The time of the display will be written on the result sheets and protests must be made within twenty-five (25) minutes of that time. The protest fee is forfeited if the protest is not upheld, and returned if justified. The protest may be given to the Race Director or to an AARCMCC official. Protests are processed by the Race Director and if necessary the State Jury. The State Jury may seek clarification of the protest from the protester as required.
Appeals against the Race Director’s decision may be made to AARCMCC. AARCMCC is obliged to handle such an appeal.
Justification of Proposal:
By the time you have finished marshalling and retrieving your vehicle from scrutineering a reasonable amount of time is required to write a coherent protest. Bear in mind that if you had been racing 12th scale under the current regulation you would have about 30 seconds to write a protest after you finished marshalling if the results had been posted directly after your race. Also to clarify the make-up of the jury.
Proposal 5: Add Irresponsible Grid-Up Penalty
Add new rule:
1.13 j. Any competitor who damages another competitor's vehicle prior to a race either deliberately or through extreme recklessness will not be allowed to start the race (i.e. running into a car gridded up ready to start).
Justification of Proposal:
The improvement of battery technology has lead to the practice of completing practice laps. On occasion this unauthorised behaviour has resulted in damage to vehicles already gridded up. This rule is proposed to discourage reckless antics on the grid and also prevent deliberate sabotage.
Proposal 6: Define Race Organiser Transponder Responsibilities
Add new rule:
1.11.6 Race organisers are responsible for supplying transponders for use by competitors. However the use of personal transponders is allowed and should be catered for.
Justification of Proposal:
To clarify responsibilities with regard to the supply of transponders.
Proposal 7: Change Grading and Regrading Requirements
Currently:
1.2.4 Heats should be graded before the commencement of qualifying so that drivers of similar ability are placed in the same heat. Regrading drivers should be carried out after the first round of qualifying when there are only 4 qualifying rounds. When 5 or 6 qualifying rounds are to be run, regrades will be carried out after either the first or second round at the race director’s discretion. This is to be announced by the race director prior to the start of the meeting.
Change to:
1.2.4 The make-up of heats shall be determined randomly prior to the commencement of the meeting to ensure an equal opportunity for all participants. A regrade must be carried out after 2 rounds of qualifying have been completed. The regrade must sort competitors on the basis of the points scored from their best round (if a tie break is needed rule 1.2.8 will apply).
Justification of Proposal:
It is unreasonable to expect race directors around Australia to be aware of the relative abilities of the entrants in a country as large as ours. Therefore pre-grading is likely to result in unfair situations. A regrade after 2 rounds allows ample opportunity to set a reasonable pace for appropriate grading. Also we are clarifying how the regrade is to be determined - previously it was unclear.
Proposal 8: Introduce 10 Second Penalty in place of Stop-Go Penalty
Currently:
1.1.3 Penalties and Sanctions
Black flag (stop/go penalty or removal of car from track) may be issued for the following reasons: [...]
2.5.1 The Referee issues warnings, stop-go penalties and ultimately may issue a black flag (disqualification) if necessary or when his warnings are not effective.
Change to:
1.1.3 Penalties and Sanctions
A Black flag (disqualification), 10 second penalty or warning may be issued for the following reasons: [...]
2.5.1 The Referee issues warnings, 10 second penalties and ultimately may issue a black flag (disqualification) if necessary or when their warnings are not effective.
AND Add new rule:
1.13.2 At the discretion of the race referee a 10 second penalty may be applied for minor infringements of the rules such as erratic driving and corner cutting. In deciding whether or not to apply the penalty the race referee should consider whether the competitor has attempted to redress the infringement and whether or not the infringement was redressed adequately.
The penalty is to be applied after the race. However the race referee may inform the competitor of the application of the penalty during the race.
A 10 second penalty is to be applied as follows: The race result sheet will be examined and 10 seconds will be added to the penalised driver's first lap, such that the cumulative time of all subsequent laps is also increased by 10 seconds; the driver's final laps and time will then be that of their first lap that exceeds the 5 minute limit (or 8 minutes in the case of 12th scale).
Example:
Lap | Time | Cumulative-time | Penalised-cumulative | Notes
1 | 43.50 | _43.50 | _53.50 |
2 | 43.00 | _86.50 | _96.50 |
3 | 42.00 | 128.50 | 138.50 |
4 | 43.00 | 171.50 | 181.50 |
5 | 42.50 | 214.00 | 224.00 |
6 | 38.00 | 252.00 | 262.00 |
7 | 41.50 | 293.50 | 303.50 | *Passed 300s (5min): Final penalised time: 7 laps 5m03.50s
8 | 38.50 | 333.00 | __NA__| *Unpenalised time: 8 laps 5m33.00s
Justification for Proposal:
The race referee currently has the power to impose a stop-go penalty for minor infringements under rule 2.5.1 but there is no recourse if one of these is later successfully protested, a 10 second penalty provides a fairer alternative. This rule also provides a mechanism for a minor penalty that can be imposed subsequent to the completion of a race should the necessity arise.
Proposal 9: Introduce Grid Damage Delay
Add new rule:
1.4.11 The race director may delay the start of a race or postpone it in the event of inappropriate behaviour of one competitor causing damage to another competitor’s vehicle or transmitter (e.g. running into a car on the starting grid before the race has begun).
The race will be started after a short (approx. 5 minute) delay for the injured party to affect repairs. Or if longer is required the race may be postponed till the end of the round, or the end of qualifying if a heat, or made the last final in the case of a final. The meeting may not be otherwise held up; the next race for the affected competitors must be run in its scheduled timeslot.
The offender may not take part in the re-start.
Note: this rule may not be used to delay the start for any situation other than that specifically described.
Justification of Proposal:
To prevent reckless behaviour ruining someone's race before it has started and to prevent sabotage from being effective.
Proposal 10: Standardise Protests and Ensure the Hearing of Legitimate Protests
Currently:
2.5.6 Appeals to the decision of the Referees must be made in writing and presented to AARCMCC. The AARCMCC is not obligated to act on such a protest.
Change to:
2.5.6 Appeals against the decision of the referees must be made in writing, presented to AARCMCC and dealt with in accordance with rules in section 1.9.
Justification of Proposal:
Standardise the method of dealing with all protests, and ensure that all legitimate protests are heard.
Proposal 11: Redefine State Jury for State Titles
Currently:
2.6.1 The State Jury consists of a nominated delegate from each State represented at the event. Each State will have a total of one vote. Clubs from each state will nominate a state delegate and inform the race director prior to the start of the race meeting.
Change to:
2.6.1 The State Jury consists of a nominated delegate from each State represented at the Event. Clubs from each state will nominate a state delegate and inform the race director prior to the start of the race meeting.
There may be situations where the above furnishes less than 3 jury members. For example, where there are only AARCMCC members from two states present, or where there is one AARCMCC member from a state present but that person must step down because they are involved in the protest to be considered. In such situations the below (paragraph) will apply.
The term State Jury will refer to a Jury made up of a delegate from each club within the State hosting the meeting, plus a delegate from another state if one is present and eligible. Clubs will each nominate one (1) delegate and inform the race director prior to the meeting. Interstate drivers should meet at the start of the meeting to decide their delegate and similarly inform the race director.
Each member of the Jury will have a total of one (1) vote, no matter its composition.
Justification of Proposal:
Define the State Jury for State Titles where there are on occasion only drivers from the home state competing. The provision for an interstate jury member is given to ensure that all competing drivers, as AARCMCC members, are properly represented.
Proposal 12: Define Driver Supplied Transponder Responsibilities
Add new rule:
1.11.7 It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure the return of any supplied transponder used to race officials, before the start of the race/heat following the race/heat they are required to marshal.
Failure to return a supplied transponder before this time will result in the driver receiving an official warning of the type described in 2.4.2, and may be issued by the race director or referee. Failure to return the transponder after a warning is issued will result in disqualification of the driver from the event.
Justification of Proposal:
To clarify the responsibility of the competitor with regard to supplied transponders and outline what penalties shall be applied for failing to comply.
The proposals were finalised with AARCMCC before Christmas and will shortly be sent out to clubs for their vote on each of them. I have posted them here to allow the users of this board to debate them in anticipation of a full discussion with their clubs.
Note: I've done my best to duplicate the formatting used in the submission but some things are still imperfect (the table in proposal 8 for instance).
__________________________________________________ __________
The Maitland On/Offroad Radio Car Club considers the upkeep and relevance of the national rule set to be of the utmost importance and would therefore like to make the following twelve (12) proposals to the AARCMCC.
Rules Proposals for AARCMCC EP Racing Format
Proposal 1: Define Last Lap Time-Out
Currently:
1.2.1 Races will be 5 minutes plus the completion of the last lap, with the exceptions of 1/12th scale racing, which will be 8 min plus the last lap.
Change to:
1.2.1 Races will be 5 minutes plus the completion of the last lap, with the exceptions of 1/12th scale racing, which will be 8 min plus the last lap.
The time-out for the last lap will be determined by the race organisers prior to the event, who will announce that duration at the drivers’ meeting prior to the commencement of racing.
In determining the time-out duration the organisers should use as a guide a typical lap time for the slowest class raced at the meeting, then add 5 to 10 seconds. Example: If 2wd Stock typically completes a lap in 27 seconds, the time-out duration is set at 35 seconds.
Justification of Proposal:
Currently all electronic timing has a time-out duration for the final lap but no guidelines exist for determining what it should be. Competitors should be allowed a finite but ample time to complete their final lap.
Proposal 2: Reduce Minimum Number of Heats at National Titles
Currently:
1.2.5 There will be a minimum of four (4) maximum six (6) rounds of heats at State Championships and a minimum of six rounds of heats at a Nationals. Note: The minimum number of qualifying heats at a National event can be reduced to four, due to bad weather or time issues with the agreement of the State Jury.
Change to:
1.2.5 Organisers will plan for a minimum of four (4) and a maximum of six (6) heats at both State and National Titles. In the event of bad weather or a similar unplanned for and unavoidable delay, the minimum number of heats may be reduced to three (3) but no less, with the agreement of the State Jury.
Justification of Proposal:
This is what we have been doing at National and State titles in Offroad for over a decade, it's time the rules actually reflected the reality of Australian racing instead of copying World Title rules.
Proposal 3: Define Impounded Transmitter Access
Add new rule:
1.7.4 Charging of transmitter batteries or changing of same, will be allowed whilst the transmitter is impounded under the supervision of a scrutineer or race official. Similarly, adjustments requiring the use of the radio may also be allowed under supervision, once the scrutineer/race official is satisfied that no interference with competing vehicles is possible.
Justification of Proposal:
It is common sense to allow competitors to adjust and maintain their equipment if it can be done under supervision. Situations have been encountered where a competitor has not been allowed to re-centre a servo and has thus missed a heat, for instance. We seek to remove this unfair circumstance.
Proposal 4: Protest Time-Out Increase
Currently:
1.9.2 Must be done within ten minutes after the display of the results or the occasion it concerns, in writing and with a AUS$50 protest fee. Protest must be in English. The time of the display will be written on the result sheets and protests must be made within ten minutes of that time. The protest fee is forfeited if the protest is not upheld, and returned if justified. The protest may be given to the Race Director or to an AARCMCC official. Protests are processed by the Race Director and if necessary the State Jury.
Appeals against the Race Director’s decision may be made to AARCMCC. AARCMCC is obliged to handle such an appeal.
Change to:
1.9.2 An 'official protest' must be made within twenty-five (25) minutes after the display of the results or the occasion it concerns, in writing and with a AUS$50 protest fee. Protest must be in English. The time of the display will be written on the result sheets and protests must be made within twenty-five (25) minutes of that time. The protest fee is forfeited if the protest is not upheld, and returned if justified. The protest may be given to the Race Director or to an AARCMCC official. Protests are processed by the Race Director and if necessary the State Jury. The State Jury may seek clarification of the protest from the protester as required.
Appeals against the Race Director’s decision may be made to AARCMCC. AARCMCC is obliged to handle such an appeal.
Justification of Proposal:
By the time you have finished marshalling and retrieving your vehicle from scrutineering a reasonable amount of time is required to write a coherent protest. Bear in mind that if you had been racing 12th scale under the current regulation you would have about 30 seconds to write a protest after you finished marshalling if the results had been posted directly after your race. Also to clarify the make-up of the jury.
Proposal 5: Add Irresponsible Grid-Up Penalty
Add new rule:
1.13 j. Any competitor who damages another competitor's vehicle prior to a race either deliberately or through extreme recklessness will not be allowed to start the race (i.e. running into a car gridded up ready to start).
Justification of Proposal:
The improvement of battery technology has lead to the practice of completing practice laps. On occasion this unauthorised behaviour has resulted in damage to vehicles already gridded up. This rule is proposed to discourage reckless antics on the grid and also prevent deliberate sabotage.
Proposal 6: Define Race Organiser Transponder Responsibilities
Add new rule:
1.11.6 Race organisers are responsible for supplying transponders for use by competitors. However the use of personal transponders is allowed and should be catered for.
Justification of Proposal:
To clarify responsibilities with regard to the supply of transponders.
Proposal 7: Change Grading and Regrading Requirements
Currently:
1.2.4 Heats should be graded before the commencement of qualifying so that drivers of similar ability are placed in the same heat. Regrading drivers should be carried out after the first round of qualifying when there are only 4 qualifying rounds. When 5 or 6 qualifying rounds are to be run, regrades will be carried out after either the first or second round at the race director’s discretion. This is to be announced by the race director prior to the start of the meeting.
Change to:
1.2.4 The make-up of heats shall be determined randomly prior to the commencement of the meeting to ensure an equal opportunity for all participants. A regrade must be carried out after 2 rounds of qualifying have been completed. The regrade must sort competitors on the basis of the points scored from their best round (if a tie break is needed rule 1.2.8 will apply).
Justification of Proposal:
It is unreasonable to expect race directors around Australia to be aware of the relative abilities of the entrants in a country as large as ours. Therefore pre-grading is likely to result in unfair situations. A regrade after 2 rounds allows ample opportunity to set a reasonable pace for appropriate grading. Also we are clarifying how the regrade is to be determined - previously it was unclear.
Proposal 8: Introduce 10 Second Penalty in place of Stop-Go Penalty
Currently:
1.1.3 Penalties and Sanctions
Black flag (stop/go penalty or removal of car from track) may be issued for the following reasons: [...]
2.5.1 The Referee issues warnings, stop-go penalties and ultimately may issue a black flag (disqualification) if necessary or when his warnings are not effective.
Change to:
1.1.3 Penalties and Sanctions
A Black flag (disqualification), 10 second penalty or warning may be issued for the following reasons: [...]
2.5.1 The Referee issues warnings, 10 second penalties and ultimately may issue a black flag (disqualification) if necessary or when their warnings are not effective.
AND Add new rule:
1.13.2 At the discretion of the race referee a 10 second penalty may be applied for minor infringements of the rules such as erratic driving and corner cutting. In deciding whether or not to apply the penalty the race referee should consider whether the competitor has attempted to redress the infringement and whether or not the infringement was redressed adequately.
The penalty is to be applied after the race. However the race referee may inform the competitor of the application of the penalty during the race.
A 10 second penalty is to be applied as follows: The race result sheet will be examined and 10 seconds will be added to the penalised driver's first lap, such that the cumulative time of all subsequent laps is also increased by 10 seconds; the driver's final laps and time will then be that of their first lap that exceeds the 5 minute limit (or 8 minutes in the case of 12th scale).
Example:
Lap | Time | Cumulative-time | Penalised-cumulative | Notes
1 | 43.50 | _43.50 | _53.50 |
2 | 43.00 | _86.50 | _96.50 |
3 | 42.00 | 128.50 | 138.50 |
4 | 43.00 | 171.50 | 181.50 |
5 | 42.50 | 214.00 | 224.00 |
6 | 38.00 | 252.00 | 262.00 |
7 | 41.50 | 293.50 | 303.50 | *Passed 300s (5min): Final penalised time: 7 laps 5m03.50s
8 | 38.50 | 333.00 | __NA__| *Unpenalised time: 8 laps 5m33.00s
Justification for Proposal:
The race referee currently has the power to impose a stop-go penalty for minor infringements under rule 2.5.1 but there is no recourse if one of these is later successfully protested, a 10 second penalty provides a fairer alternative. This rule also provides a mechanism for a minor penalty that can be imposed subsequent to the completion of a race should the necessity arise.
Proposal 9: Introduce Grid Damage Delay
Add new rule:
1.4.11 The race director may delay the start of a race or postpone it in the event of inappropriate behaviour of one competitor causing damage to another competitor’s vehicle or transmitter (e.g. running into a car on the starting grid before the race has begun).
The race will be started after a short (approx. 5 minute) delay for the injured party to affect repairs. Or if longer is required the race may be postponed till the end of the round, or the end of qualifying if a heat, or made the last final in the case of a final. The meeting may not be otherwise held up; the next race for the affected competitors must be run in its scheduled timeslot.
The offender may not take part in the re-start.
Note: this rule may not be used to delay the start for any situation other than that specifically described.
Justification of Proposal:
To prevent reckless behaviour ruining someone's race before it has started and to prevent sabotage from being effective.
Proposal 10: Standardise Protests and Ensure the Hearing of Legitimate Protests
Currently:
2.5.6 Appeals to the decision of the Referees must be made in writing and presented to AARCMCC. The AARCMCC is not obligated to act on such a protest.
Change to:
2.5.6 Appeals against the decision of the referees must be made in writing, presented to AARCMCC and dealt with in accordance with rules in section 1.9.
Justification of Proposal:
Standardise the method of dealing with all protests, and ensure that all legitimate protests are heard.
Proposal 11: Redefine State Jury for State Titles
Currently:
2.6.1 The State Jury consists of a nominated delegate from each State represented at the event. Each State will have a total of one vote. Clubs from each state will nominate a state delegate and inform the race director prior to the start of the race meeting.
Change to:
2.6.1 The State Jury consists of a nominated delegate from each State represented at the Event. Clubs from each state will nominate a state delegate and inform the race director prior to the start of the race meeting.
There may be situations where the above furnishes less than 3 jury members. For example, where there are only AARCMCC members from two states present, or where there is one AARCMCC member from a state present but that person must step down because they are involved in the protest to be considered. In such situations the below (paragraph) will apply.
The term State Jury will refer to a Jury made up of a delegate from each club within the State hosting the meeting, plus a delegate from another state if one is present and eligible. Clubs will each nominate one (1) delegate and inform the race director prior to the meeting. Interstate drivers should meet at the start of the meeting to decide their delegate and similarly inform the race director.
Each member of the Jury will have a total of one (1) vote, no matter its composition.
Justification of Proposal:
Define the State Jury for State Titles where there are on occasion only drivers from the home state competing. The provision for an interstate jury member is given to ensure that all competing drivers, as AARCMCC members, are properly represented.
Proposal 12: Define Driver Supplied Transponder Responsibilities
Add new rule:
1.11.7 It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure the return of any supplied transponder used to race officials, before the start of the race/heat following the race/heat they are required to marshal.
Failure to return a supplied transponder before this time will result in the driver receiving an official warning of the type described in 2.4.2, and may be issued by the race director or referee. Failure to return the transponder after a warning is issued will result in disqualification of the driver from the event.
Justification of Proposal:
To clarify the responsibility of the competitor with regard to supplied transponders and outline what penalties shall be applied for failing to comply.
02-01-2009, 12:55 AM
#5
Food for Thought
Radio Active and I have had discussions about the proposed rule changes listed, most are sensible updates, though we see a different light at the end of the tunnel on a couple of the proposals.
If the above competitor is continually making the infringments and also continuing to interfer with another competitors race, how is it fair on the competitor that is in the right that is having their race interferred with, as the race referee will no longer have the power to act on the infringements until the end of the race. This will penalise driver in the right more than the offender with the possibility this will allow the insidense of team driving. The other thing to be considered is the protest will then go before the race meeting jury, now we have a situation of a jury that will most likely not be watching the race and upholding the protest.
Results, the racer who is doing everthing right is now penalised no mater what the decission. The racer that is infringing the rules either can get off free or only gets penalised by time and might only be aiming for a lower finish.
In this day and age, most drivers have a personal transponder in use, very few drivers actually do not own a personal transponder. This can lead us back to the days of the clubs owning al transponders and drivers bearing any of the resposibility of the club transponder. The minimal investment for a personal transponder takes a lot of finacial load off the host clubs having to loan out their equipment and hoping that it will be returned. This does nothing to encourage drivers to own their own transponders.
A suggestion to change this proposal, drivers can rent the transponder from the club, the club will then list that driver to a fixed transponder number only e.g the 7 digit number encoded to the transponder, not just the last number as per normal club use.
IC Off Road have been using a strictly personal transponder rule for years and has been working without any issues to date.
This should be not be changed for on road as off road and on road have 2 totally different race formats.
The Off Road format would suit the change to simply a minimum of 4 heats for state and national events as it is almost impossible to catter for any more.
On road at present and for some time in future can easily catter for the maximum 6 rounds of qualifying, unless in the case of bad whether.
II believe this should be changed to "be presented to the race director, whom will consult with the AARCMCC representative if available".
One thing to keep in mind is that this will require the clubs to complete 12 seperate votes which will have to be carried out over a period of time and an introduction date set
And drivers, you get to vote at your club, not to AARCMCC, so please read through them carefully before you make rash decissions.
Peter Ellis
1.13.2 At the discretion of the race referee a 10 second penalty may be applied for minor infringements of the rules such as erratic driving and corner cutting. In deciding whether or not to apply the penalty the race referee should consider whether the competitor has attempted to redress the infringement and whether or not the infringement was redressed adequately.
Results, the racer who is doing everthing right is now penalised no mater what the decission. The racer that is infringing the rules either can get off free or only gets penalised by time and might only be aiming for a lower finish.
1.11.6 Race organisers are responsible for supplying transponders for use by competitors. However the use of personal transponders is allowed and should be catered for.
A suggestion to change this proposal, drivers can rent the transponder from the club, the club will then list that driver to a fixed transponder number only e.g the 7 digit number encoded to the transponder, not just the last number as per normal club use.
IC Off Road have been using a strictly personal transponder rule for years and has been working without any issues to date.
1.2.5 Organisers will plan for a minimum of four (4) and a maximum of six (6) heats at both State and National Titles.
The Off Road format would suit the change to simply a minimum of 4 heats for state and national events as it is almost impossible to catter for any more.
On road at present and for some time in future can easily catter for the maximum 6 rounds of qualifying, unless in the case of bad whether.
2.5.6 Appeals against the decision of the referees must be made in writing, presented to AARCMCC and dealt with in accordance with rules in section 1.9.
One thing to keep in mind is that this will require the clubs to complete 12 seperate votes which will have to be carried out over a period of time and an introduction date set
And drivers, you get to vote at your club, not to AARCMCC, so please read through them carefully before you make rash decissions.
Peter Ellis
02-01-2009, 04:57 AM
#6
Radio Active and I have had discussions about the proposed rule changes listed, most are sensible updates, though we see a different light at the end of the tunnel on a couple of the proposals.
[...]
One thing to keep in mind is that this will require the clubs to complete 12 seperate votes which will have to be carried out over a period of time and an introduction date set
And drivers, you get to vote at your club, not to AARCMCC, so please read through them carefully before you make rash decissions.
Peter Ellis
[...]
One thing to keep in mind is that this will require the clubs to complete 12 seperate votes which will have to be carried out over a period of time and an introduction date set
And drivers, you get to vote at your club, not to AARCMCC, so please read through them carefully before you make rash decissions.
Peter Ellis
Now for my brief counter-counter arguments.
If the above competitor is continually making the infringments and also continuing to interfer with another competitors race, how is it fair on the competitor that is in the right that is having their race interferred with, as the race referee will no longer have the power to act on the infringements until the end of the race. This will penalise driver in the right more than the offender with the possibility this will allow the insidense of team driving. The other thing to be considered is the protest will then go before the race meeting jury, now we have a situation of a jury that will most likely not be watching the race and upholding the protest.
Results, the racer who is doing everthing right is now penalised no mater what the decission. The racer that is infringing the rules either can get off free or only gets penalised by time and might only be aiming for a lower finish.
Results, the racer who is doing everthing right is now penalised no mater what the decission. The racer that is infringing the rules either can get off free or only gets penalised by time and might only be aiming for a lower finish.
What we have tried to do is, as much as possible, give a racer the right of appeal. We believe this is fundamental to a fair result.
In this day and age, most drivers have a personal transponder in use, very few drivers actually do not own a personal transponder. This can lead us back to the days of the clubs owning al transponders and drivers bearing any of the resposibility of the club transponder. The minimal investment for a personal transponder takes a lot of finacial load off the host clubs having to loan out their equipment and hoping that it will be returned. This does nothing to encourage drivers to own their own transponders.
A suggestion to change this proposal, drivers can rent the transponder from the club, the club will then list that driver to a fixed transponder number only e.g the 7 digit number encoded to the transponder, not just the last number as per normal club use.
IC Off Road have been using a strictly personal transponder rule for years and has been working without any issues to date.
A suggestion to change this proposal, drivers can rent the transponder from the club, the club will then list that driver to a fixed transponder number only e.g the 7 digit number encoded to the transponder, not just the last number as per normal club use.
IC Off Road have been using a strictly personal transponder rule for years and has been working without any issues to date.
Most clubs keep transponder sets specifically to cater for new racers anyway.
This should be not be changed for on road as off road and on road have 2 totally different race formats.
The Off Road format would suit the change to simply a minimum of 4 heats for state and national events as it is almost impossible to catter for any more.
On road at present and for some time in future can easily catter for the maximum 6 rounds of qualifying, unless in the case of bad whether.
The Off Road format would suit the change to simply a minimum of 4 heats for state and national events as it is almost impossible to catter for any more.
On road at present and for some time in future can easily catter for the maximum 6 rounds of qualifying, unless in the case of bad whether.
Perhaps onroad and offroad should ultimately be separated on this rule. What we tried to do though was make only changes where it was necessary to do so, and not over complicate things.
The major issue was that for the last decade there has been a meeting at the start of every offroad nationals to reduce the number of heats to 4. And in one case it was reduced still further during the meeting despite this being illegal (all the competitors agreed though).
02-01-2009, 07:35 PM
#7
I'm not a "new" racer and I don't own a personal transponder. I don't mind that I have to mount a club transponder onto my car before a run. It sure saves me the cost of a personal transponder. And I don't have the dollars to spend on one either. I'd rather spend money on tyres or spares that can keep me racing whether I own a transponder or not.
My 2-bobs worth.........
Cheers
Shane
My 2-bobs worth.........
Cheers
Shane
02-02-2009, 01:58 AM
#8
I'd rather spend money on tyres or spares that can keep me racing whether I own a transponder or not.
Think of how much easier it would be if you knew that all you had to do all day is pick up the one transponder from the rack, rather than have to keep check of what transponder you should have in your car every time there is a regrade.
Also this help erduce the stess on the organisers with the amount of racers always asking what transponder they should have in their cars and reduce the chances of some one gridding up with the wrong transponder.
The clubs in Sydney have been using a similar practice at the club challenges for a few years now and it works better than the old system, less stress on the in dividual drivers and race organisers, less problems of transponders not being returned or turned over for the next driver
02-02-2009, 02:01 AM
#9
Hopefully this will effect onroad very little.
02-10-2009, 05:38 PM
#12
I know were you are coming from, that is why I have posted that the host clubs could look at renting a fixed transponder to racers like your self for the meeting.
Think of how much easier it would be if you knew that all you had to do all day is pick up the one transponder from the rack, rather than have to keep check of what transponder you should have in your car every time there is a regrade.
Also this help erduce the stess on the organisers with the amount of racers always asking what transponder they should have in their cars and reduce the chances of some one gridding up with the wrong transponder.
The clubs in Sydney have been using a similar practice at the club challenges for a few years now and it works better than the old system, less stress on the in dividual drivers and race organisers, less problems of transponders not being returned or turned over for the next driver
Think of how much easier it would be if you knew that all you had to do all day is pick up the one transponder from the rack, rather than have to keep check of what transponder you should have in your car every time there is a regrade.
Also this help erduce the stess on the organisers with the amount of racers always asking what transponder they should have in their cars and reduce the chances of some one gridding up with the wrong transponder.
The clubs in Sydney have been using a similar practice at the club challenges for a few years now and it works better than the old system, less stress on the in dividual drivers and race organisers, less problems of transponders not being returned or turned over for the next driver
Pete, i'm sort of lost on this one, if im reading it right, the host club therefore will have to supply one transponder to each driver who enters and doesnt have a personal transponder, but if 30 drivers enter without personals, wont the club, who normally keeps 20 transponders, have to find another 10 to accomodate them, this might never happen in practise, but its a possibility, i dont quite get what u mean about it happening in challenge cup, trev brought along his 20 transponders and people picked them up as usual, i think you might be thinking of what ryde were doing (and a good idea it is too) where they would loan out a transponder to their drivers who were attending the meeting, if this were to happen at state and nationals events, then we could go with the "bring your own transponder" rule could apply, and the club where someone is a member could rent/loan a transponder to thier member/s
And to add to the penalty 10 sec after the race etc, nowhere has the MORCC proposal ruled out the black flag option, as radio states, the penatly is only for minor infringments as the poor driving continues, it would go beyond that definition and other penalties can be applied, this is similar to real motor racing, where the argument was, as soon as someone gets a drive though, theres no opportunity for an appeal to fix things, now many categories including F1 apply penalties after the race
02-10-2009, 05:49 PM
#13
Mike I think what Pete is saying is that at sanactioned event if you don't have a personal you can't enter so you have to organise with the club you are at or the host club to hire a transponder for the event if you wish to run or buy a personal.
There is one issue with that is that people taking transponder home by mistake at the end of the event. It would have to be a good deposit
There is one issue with that is that people taking transponder home by mistake at the end of the event. It would have to be a good deposit
02-11-2009, 02:12 AM
#14
I can see the merit in being able to hire a personal transponder. You get to keep it all day (maybe use if for practise before the event, etc.). Yet, I still think what we have proposed is preferable (or even complimentary). There are plenty of standard transponder sets around. It can't be too hard for a club to obtain 2 sets (of 10) for a major event. If you've got a personal or hire one you are catered for, but if otherwise, ensuring sets are available makes the event more accessible. We want to make it as easy and as cheap as possible for people to get into RC at all levels.
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
