The East Power 4200 cells are labeled Standard Charge at 400mA at 14 hours, they also state not to solder to battery. :weird:

What was the discharge current on Cell 6 ?

It obviously wasnt 20 Amps. It's absolutly impossable to get 10972 mAh from a 4200 mAh cell.

Or maybe your Duratrax discharger has bit the dust ?..


Would be interesting to see the readings with all 6 cells discharged at 20 Amps with the SuperNova.


Charles

I think you will find all battery manufacturers say not to solder them. That is just another abuse we do to RC batteries. It does get a lower connection resistance than spot welding. When done correctly it doesn't damage the cells. But very easy to destroy them if you overheat the cells.


Charles

It was posted earlier that no one is matching RC3600HV's because they were a complete failure.

Maybe that person needs to do a search on the net. Their are matchers all over the world selling Sanyo RC3600HV matched cells.

BUT, They are VERY expensive.


Charles

Hey.

To be perfectly honest 10a and 20a dischargers are basically pointless.... and if you want REAL figures... use the INDUSTRY standard competition electronics equipment for any comparison... T35 or Turbo matcher... anything else is basically a waste of time imo.....

Any idea what a decent mod in a TC pulls amp wise....

You have just had bad luck with ur cells.... thats all... everyone has bad luck.... and yes i remember the "old" days... i even remember some of the worst cells ever ( 1700sce )...

Current cells are quite good, i have 3800's that are still very reasonable runtime and voltage wise and i have become lazy these past 6 months or so....

Your raw cells being sanyo JUNK... will never compare to anything current no matter how u "condition/prepare" or anything else you do to them.... there is a reason IB and GP took over the market and it had nothing to do with price...

This is meant to be an attack, but in all seriousness what can you possibly know that the likes of Orion etc.......

Best of luck with the sanyo's......

Oh and in response to your last post.... they are a waste... look at what the pro's use.... there is a reason they use THE BEST equiptment...

Charles, they may have the Sanyo batteries in stock but they are most probably not current.

Also you are way off track with the average voltage information. It would take far too long to explain but the average voltage is based on an algorithm which takes into account maximum charge voltage and runtime. It is interesting to note that in most probably 90%+ cases of cells with very poor runtime the average voltage is very high. This is because the average voltage is a calculated figure based on the runtime and peak voltage. I am sure that a mathematician could explain it but it would take me weeks :D

The most valuable information in reality is the average voltage at the end of say 300 seconds.(close to the end of a normal race)

Once again, this is not a criticism but merely trying to point out some misconceptions that you have about the batteries

No attack at you Charles
I have been reading this thread and no matter what people say you are mind stuck on these Sanyo cells. If you are that happy with them by all means run them . Your way of thinking i am sorry is old school.

Another reason as to why cells these days are matched at 30/35 amps is because this is the AVERAGE current drain on these cells in race conditions.{This could peak and can peak in excess of 100+ Amps(mainly mod and high end stock.)} Sanyos want substain this current drain.

IB cells are one of only a very few that can actually discharge up to 250 amps.Try that from a sanyo.

Do you really think Matchers just pick discharge and charge numbers out of the air with out first consulting Cell manufactures ,Do you also think matchers would be prepared to loose hundreds of dollars haveing cells fail to have to cover this expense themselves.I dont think so..DO YOU..

Sorry Charles Dont take personal offence at this post It isnt my intend

Tony

im going to try cell 6 again tonite as well as 1 & 3
it was supposed to be 20 amps as i changed to slot 2 so maybe thats it.
i have a 20 amp bulb discharger which i prefer using ,but it has blown globe.
i hardly ever use the super nova for a discharge tool,as someone mentioned that it would be inconsistant plus it gets hot then u have to wait for it to cool down b efore starting a charge
id rather use it only to charge with...... ive had no problems with this charger
since using it only to charge
yep slot 2 & 3 have bit the dust :flaming: u were right
now im gonna have to every cell again using my old faithful bulb discharger

Coming from a nitro guy, what's cell matching and what does it involve that puts such stress on a cell? :weird:

Looks like I am wrong again :blush:


Intellect IB4200 Batteries have been making great strides in the area of NiMH Batteries. They are so far ahead of the competition that they are the first manufacturer of NiCD or NiMH batteries that CAN Explode in a rather Violent manner.

I have just been reading one of the other threads in this Forum were their are TWO seperate reports of a IB4200 Cell Exploding in what sounds like a rather Violent manner. Luckely no one has been hurt yet.

No matter how much you abuse a NiCD or NiMH cell in the past they have never exploded in a Violent manner. They have melted, Split open and the guts spilt out but NEVER exploded Violently.

Maybe this is the reason why Sanyo's highest capcity cell is only 3600 mAh. Maybe once you go beyond this figure the techiniques required to increase the capacity further is leading to Dangerious cells. That can, And in fact, Have already exploded on at least 2 occurences. And thats only on this forum. Their must be many more of them exploding world wide that we dont know about. From what I read they were Matched cells.

The IB4200 is the only NiMH cell I have ever seen that can go Short Circuit. This used to only happen to NiCD cells when reverse charged or discharged to far. But they NEVER went short circuit when fully charged. With the Violent explosions reported from the IB4200 it sounds like they are even going short circuit when fully charged. Now that is bloody dangerious.


If the IB4200's start to explode at too many race meetings I can see them being banned rather quickly.

The Chinese are so interested in catching the world market by supplying VERY high capacity cells that they are diss-reguarding safety to do it.....


Charles

That is why I have built my own Charger/Discharger to VERY accuratly measure a Packs mAh Capacity. I am an electronics engineer by trade and wrote my own Pic code and built my own Current regulator. After calibrating the current regulator and A/D converters I then did Calibration tests and I can Guarantee the accuracy is better than %1 on ALL ranges.


Charles

No use trying to help any more. Use your Sanyo cells. Everyone will have fun calling out "Lapping" to you several times a race :D :D :D

Charles .... no one races with the Sanyo cells around the world. If you think they are great, get on the American thredas and tell them.... they deserve a laugh

Again, not aimed at you

I agree totaly that GP and IB have taken over the market. And it's not only Price. It's a combination of Price and Capacity. A Higher Capacity cell will ALWAYS have higher performance than lower capacity cells. The problem is that they are being made in China were Quality control and Safety are not a high priority for some manufacturers.

As had been said, The IB4200's die in the thousands when being matched. And in recent times we have heard of them Exploding violently.

To me that means they a VERY poor Quality cells that CAN perform extreamly well. But the price you are paying is cells that can die very often and can even be very dangerious.

I am not arguing that "Matched" IB4200's dont outperform the Sanyo cells. My main argument is that the Sanyo cells are VERY high Quality cells and will give you YEARS of life and will NEVER explode Violently.


As for RAW cells. So far the Sanyo RC3600HV look like they are equal to RAW IB4200 Cells when it comes to Average voltage. Which means they have the same average speed on the track. Of course they are lower capacity and will have shorter run times. But I dont think an average race will flatten a 3600 mAh pack.


Charles

Using a complex algorythm is the "Theoreticle" way to calculate the average voltage. And Theory rarely mimics realty accuratly.

The "REAL" (Practicle) way is to monitor the cells voltage during discharge and take readings say every 1 second. Then Add up all the voltage readings and divide by the number of seconds it takes to discharge them. That is the only real way to measure average voltage.


Charles

I am sorry but you cant use a BULB discharger to measure a cells capacity. The problem is the current in the cells will drop as it discharges. So it might be 20 amps on a fully charged cell but by the time it's half discharged the current will have dropped to maybe 18 amps. And when its near fully discharged the current will drop to about 12 amps. Because the current is not constant the calculated mAh based on Discharge time and current will be quite inaccurate.

You MUST use a constant current discharger to measure the cells capacity accuratly. Thats why I said to use the SuperNova as it's using as Constant discharge current. It will be 20 Amps at the start of discharge and it will also be 20 Amps at the end of discharge.

The SuperNova doesnt need to be cooled after discharging. The 3 fans in it quite easily keep it at a reasonable temperature.


Charles