Should 19 turn become a National On Road Class
08-03-2006, 04:38 PM
#46
Originally Posted by 2-Bad
How has this been working out for 12th class around the nation? It's been a National event for many years, but I haven't seen it been supported locally for many years. Although many people have tried to encourage interest in 12th, it hasn't flown. Is the situation for 12th class the same here as elsewhere, I don't know for sure but I'm guessing it is…..
I don't think that’s a good enough argument to support 19t becoming a National event..... IMHO
Regards,
Peter
I don't think that’s a good enough argument to support 19t becoming a National event..... IMHO
Regards,
Peter
08-03-2006, 04:42 PM
#47
make it a National class and it will be popular
08-03-2006, 04:54 PM
#48
This has to be done with 19t,
At the beginning of this year we were playing with 19T but no event would commit to it. Clubs have tried to run it but still the line between mod-19t are fuzzy. We started with the challenge cup to run a sub class over the competition to see if it would be supported for next year. Even though the first round we have 5-6 drivers, we are now just finished the third and 19t is pulling up to half the field for mod. Out of 24 drivers thats not bad.
Not downing 540 because I think its a great beginners class but for a state and nationals as we are talking about it doesn't cut. I know that the gap between mod and stock has become that large that why not many people want to race it at state or nats and most 540 drivers don't want to run stock because of the group of people that should go to mod.
So what about this, only bring in 19t forget about 540 get the drivers that should go to mod move to 19t and make stock the new 540.
Then the steps are small people can come to grips with moving out of class and people are willing to race at sanctioned events.
As I have said earlier in this thread what ever happens with the rules for Challeneg Cup next year there will be a 19t class.
You have to remember that if you have to many classes the competition is not there only throphy hunters, and as it has been proven with the off-road side of CC trimming back the dead wood sometimes brings back a stronger plant.
I agree with 2-bad's comments about 12th scale its a two to three year class. Meaning it comes around every two to three years. Strange that it lines up with most world titles. Don't get me wrong I loved it when I raced the class back in the early years but why have a class that you get only ( if you are lucky) 6 to a nations or no class like last two years. Granted this year will probably be the biggest in the last 5years. I know this is not a debate on 12th scale but the clubs members are the people who will vote on this. You have to build the strength of the sport before you bring in Sub class.
At the beginning of this year we were playing with 19T but no event would commit to it. Clubs have tried to run it but still the line between mod-19t are fuzzy. We started with the challenge cup to run a sub class over the competition to see if it would be supported for next year. Even though the first round we have 5-6 drivers, we are now just finished the third and 19t is pulling up to half the field for mod. Out of 24 drivers thats not bad.
Not downing 540 because I think its a great beginners class but for a state and nationals as we are talking about it doesn't cut. I know that the gap between mod and stock has become that large that why not many people want to race it at state or nats and most 540 drivers don't want to run stock because of the group of people that should go to mod.
So what about this, only bring in 19t forget about 540 get the drivers that should go to mod move to 19t and make stock the new 540.
Then the steps are small people can come to grips with moving out of class and people are willing to race at sanctioned events.
As I have said earlier in this thread what ever happens with the rules for Challeneg Cup next year there will be a 19t class.
You have to remember that if you have to many classes the competition is not there only throphy hunters, and as it has been proven with the off-road side of CC trimming back the dead wood sometimes brings back a stronger plant.
I agree with 2-bad's comments about 12th scale its a two to three year class. Meaning it comes around every two to three years. Strange that it lines up with most world titles. Don't get me wrong I loved it when I raced the class back in the early years but why have a class that you get only ( if you are lucky) 6 to a nations or no class like last two years. Granted this year will probably be the biggest in the last 5years. I know this is not a debate on 12th scale but the clubs members are the people who will vote on this. You have to build the strength of the sport before you bring in Sub class.
08-03-2006, 05:06 PM
#50
Originally Posted by fastolfart
As a few have posted here, if becomes a national class, the support will follow. But will it ?
I agree that the jump from Stock to Mod is a large jump and it seems that the majority (not all) of stock drivers choose to race stock because of a lower cost.
08-04-2006, 05:02 AM
#51
Originally Posted by Rod M
that is the issue,
1, no one wanted to run 19t because its not a sanctioned for major events,
2, hardly no one moves out of 27t as the jump to mod is too great for many,
its a catch 22,
1, no one wanted to run 19t because its not a sanctioned for major events,
2, hardly no one moves out of 27t as the jump to mod is too great for many,
its a catch 22,
I do see and understand there might be a problem in policing a Mod R class as Vr01 mentions but really, is open modified supplying us with the best drivers, or only those with the money to compete. Unfortunately in this country this sport is quite expensive compared to other countries and this is the reason we have these difficulties with modified.
My suggestion of those classes was not to hold them ALL at regional/state and national level. The 27 turn should stay as the stock class, the 23 turn class is mentioned as it is run at a few clubs around the place.
My thoughts are
540 ((First time entrants only) Handout) Therefore if you have compteted last year you will compete in one of the following. Maybe allow the champ to defend their title (once) but all else have to move on.
27 turn Stock - This class will get even bigger with the 540 rule in place
19 turn 24 deg - If it's sanctioned as an event it will grow.
Mod R 9 turn (handout) Solves the policing issue and should increase as mod drivers and those wanting to go mod now have a cheaper, driver ability focussed comp that is still wickedly quick
Open mod (for those who can afford it) maybe make this class the demo class
Obviously the two new classes and the restriction on 540 to first timers would have to be introduced at the beginning of the year so the clubs can adjust and drivers can start chosing there classes for that year etc etc.
I just think that modified will never really attract a lot of drivers due to costs and as Rod M mentions there is a fair gap between the two.
My personnal opinion is that restricted classes provide for better driving as it comes down to the drivers ability to set up and drive his/her car more so than how much one can through at the sport. By having the restricted classes as the dominant ones the level of driving will be awsome.
08-04-2006, 05:55 AM
#52
How would a MOD R class save costs?? A 9 turn gets around most tracks just as fast as a 7. Tire wear and drivetrain wear would still be high and the top guys would still be running a set per run of tyres.
I would run 19t if it were run as a seperate class with decent numbers. I don't like stock i find it too slow for my liking yet throwing in my 7 turn is a big jump that is to much motor for me to handle. Running 19t with mod kind of defeats the purpose of running a 19t to me.
I would run 19t if it were run as a seperate class with decent numbers. I don't like stock i find it too slow for my liking yet throwing in my 7 turn is a big jump that is to much motor for me to handle. Running 19t with mod kind of defeats the purpose of running a 19t to me.
08-04-2006, 06:27 AM
#53
Originally Posted by pyrosian
How would a MOD R class save costs?? A 9 turn gets around most tracks just as fast as a 7. Tire wear and drivetrain wear would still be high and the top guys would still be running a set per run of tyres.
I would run 19t if it were run as a seperate class with decent numbers. I don't like stock i find it too slow for my liking yet throwing in my 7 turn is a big jump that is to much motor for me to handle. Running 19t with mod kind of defeats the purpose of running a 19t to me.
I would run 19t if it were run as a seperate class with decent numbers. I don't like stock i find it too slow for my liking yet throwing in my 7 turn is a big jump that is to much motor for me to handle. Running 19t with mod kind of defeats the purpose of running a 19t to me.
As for costs of a resitricted mod class. At the moment there is a lot of talk about the consistant problems mod competiters are having with esc and motor melt downs, also run times due to high gearing is creeping back in.
Mod R 9 turn would be cheaper as it is a restricted class, therefore motor types would be limited to certain winds and set ups and also the esc and motor melt downs would not occur, at least not as much and the benefit wuld be as you pointed out, they are just as fast, or at least almost. So it would allow more people to compete and actually be competitive without the added risk of losing your expensive esc. It also means that car set up and driver skill would play a much bigger part in the outcome of races.
I think 19 turn is a given and should be implement as soon as possible. As for Mod R maybe it could be trialled or something to get an idea of whether it would be good or not. Im sure most mod guy's would like to race fast but for less
08-04-2006, 09:59 AM
#54
Tech Initiate
Myself and three others started this class (19 turn spec motors,machine wound and tagged,. We even restricted it to rubber tyres 27's & 32's, so as to keep the costs down)) at club level at the beginning of the year.............now we are getting up to 9 or 10 drivers turn up to race - with rarely less than 6 drivers in the class on race day. For Canberra at the moment - that is pretty good going (Unfortunately).
I think the question we really should be asking is: What can we do to generate more people turning up on a regular basis to race at CLUB level. Club level racing is going to have to get stronger for our clubs to survive. Controlled classes and no cheque book racing are what is needed at CLUB level.....Keep is simple.
sorry - rant over!!
Cheers
Darryn Johnson
Radius Modelsport
www.darrynsretrorc.rtox.com
I think the question we really should be asking is: What can we do to generate more people turning up on a regular basis to race at CLUB level. Club level racing is going to have to get stronger for our clubs to survive. Controlled classes and no cheque book racing are what is needed at CLUB level.....Keep is simple.
sorry - rant over!!
Cheers
Darryn Johnson
Radius Modelsport
www.darrynsretrorc.rtox.com
08-04-2006, 04:33 PM
#55
AARCMCC,
Is it true that arrangements are already in place for a demo class of 19t at this year National?
If so, I think 19t will be a huge hit, but if you plan to use this year National as a gauge to justify its continuation, I think this maybe misleading. A lot of clubs around Brisbane have gone to a great deal of effort encouraging interest in the class over the past years. This will result in very good support during this year’s event. But I’m not sure that this would be the case if the event was held elsewhere, where there is less local support.
Just something to think about……
Regards,
Peter
Is it true that arrangements are already in place for a demo class of 19t at this year National?
If so, I think 19t will be a huge hit, but if you plan to use this year National as a gauge to justify its continuation, I think this maybe misleading. A lot of clubs around Brisbane have gone to a great deal of effort encouraging interest in the class over the past years. This will result in very good support during this year’s event. But I’m not sure that this would be the case if the event was held elsewhere, where there is less local support.
Just something to think about……
Regards,
Peter
08-04-2006, 07:18 PM
#56
AARCMCC,
Is it true that arrangements are already in place for a demo class of 19t at this year National?
Is it true that arrangements are already in place for a demo class of 19t at this year National?
Due to several reasons out side of gauging if would become popular (the evidence is quite clear here and is why I started this thread), we have been favouring instigating it as a demo class for this year and making it a sanctioned class for competition as of January 2007.
Heres a thought about the Mod R class, Hand out motors would only drive the racers away as the entry fee for this class would now exceed $200.00 (motor, control tyres, entry fee to club). If a Mod R class is ever considered, my thoughts would have the drivers restricted to 4 cell only and run in the mod field.
Peter Ellis
AARCMCC
08-05-2006, 04:36 AM
#57
Originally Posted by fastolfart
This is a topic of discussion between the meeting organisers and AARCMCC.
Due to several reasons out side of gauging if would become popular (the evidence is quite clear here and is why I started this thread), we have been favouring instigating it as a demo class for this year and making it a sanctioned class for competition as of January 2007.
Heres a thought about the Mod R class, Hand out motors would only drive the racers away as the entry fee for this class would now exceed $200.00 (motor, control tyres, entry fee to club). If a Mod R class is ever considered, my thoughts would have the drivers restricted to 4 cell only and run in the mod field.
Peter Ellis
AARCMCC
Due to several reasons out side of gauging if would become popular (the evidence is quite clear here and is why I started this thread), we have been favouring instigating it as a demo class for this year and making it a sanctioned class for competition as of January 2007.
Heres a thought about the Mod R class, Hand out motors would only drive the racers away as the entry fee for this class would now exceed $200.00 (motor, control tyres, entry fee to club). If a Mod R class is ever considered, my thoughts would have the drivers restricted to 4 cell only and run in the mod field.
Peter Ellis
AARCMCC
08-05-2006, 09:31 AM
#58
zacabrandy, thats why we have to try and do all the claculations and try and put things together for the racers. If iyt wasn't for this sort of forum, we would be flying blind and so would you guys.
Don't look at 4 cell as more battery purchases, think of if they bought 2 6 cell packs they would have 3 packs.
Don't look at 4 cell as more battery purchases, think of if they bought 2 6 cell packs they would have 3 packs.
08-06-2006, 06:25 PM
#59
Tech Adept
My thoughts;
I think that 540 should never be run at a title event.
I think that the current 27T Stock is a great class of racing, a great starting point to learn to race. Fast enough, cheap enough, not hard on equipment.
Anyone involved in racing can afford this.
19T Spec would be interesting, as things are a little faster. But I think should remain fairly inexpensive and durable. If you want to go faster but cannot afford Open Mod then race this class.
Open Modified should remain so. As has been the case for many years, this class is always going to push the limits of what technology is available in the hobby. Not everyone can afford it, or drive it.
6 Cells should remain the standard. Why would you create a 4 Cell TC class when the LI-PO should be the newer standard. As I'm led to believe these are great.
So I think that 19Turn will perhaps entice away some of the trophy hunters that are commonly seen at a national title.
Is that what is needed? I'm not so sure that I'd really be too drawn too it as a class though.
I think I'd prefer to place 17th or so in Modified. At least then I'm sure I went as fast as I could, not as fast as my motor.
Regards,
I think that 540 should never be run at a title event.
I think that the current 27T Stock is a great class of racing, a great starting point to learn to race. Fast enough, cheap enough, not hard on equipment.
Anyone involved in racing can afford this.
19T Spec would be interesting, as things are a little faster. But I think should remain fairly inexpensive and durable. If you want to go faster but cannot afford Open Mod then race this class.
Open Modified should remain so. As has been the case for many years, this class is always going to push the limits of what technology is available in the hobby. Not everyone can afford it, or drive it.
6 Cells should remain the standard. Why would you create a 4 Cell TC class when the LI-PO should be the newer standard. As I'm led to believe these are great.
So I think that 19Turn will perhaps entice away some of the trophy hunters that are commonly seen at a national title.
Is that what is needed? I'm not so sure that I'd really be too drawn too it as a class though.
I think I'd prefer to place 17th or so in Modified. At least then I'm sure I went as fast as I could, not as fast as my motor.
Regards,
08-06-2006, 11:45 PM
#60
Hey guys it's just a thought but what if we created a kind of outlaw class of 19 turn and foam tyres... What do people think?