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2016 AARCMCC NSW EP ONR State Titles - 26th-29th May

2016 AARCMCC NSW EP ONR State Titles - 26th-29th May

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Old 04-20-2016, 05:16 AM
  #76  
TJ
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I have no say in what the committee will decide in this debate. All I'm doing is the timing so this puts me in a very strange position.

I can say what I want.

We are holding people at ransom?? Is it any different than Templestowe a few weeks ago at the Vic titles - all entries had to be paid two weeks out. Nathan, did you go to that event? I know quite a few drivers from NSW did. I didn't hear anything like this from them.

Castle Hill run a poor event????? For the last 15 years Castle Hill has run events at Castle and IMCC which have been one of the best events people have ever been to and still the record for the largest number of entries at an on road event in Sydney. We have helped clubs run events and stood in when clubs could not supply officials - this is not just Whalan last year but IMCC, SMA, Lithgow, Moorebank, Orange, Bathurst and the list goes on. There are not many others that could say they do that. Our top drivers have sacrificed driving to help run meetings without any financial benefit.

In fact, RC Core is more of a club than any other club in the Sydney area. So we have drivers from other clubs already practising on the Surface, one being Craig twice I think.

This bullshit that a few in Sydney kept stirring up at every meeting is why a lot of interstate drivers don't come. I have seen this time and time again and this was one of the major reasons Challenge Cup was stopped. It's also very strange that the people that cause the problem never stepped up to fill the void when it did stop and crawled back into their hole again.

I know that people have their own opinion and I can understand that, but this happens time and time again.

Modified drivers putting down that they would run 21.5 for a joke. Drivers entering National events under false names. These people are the joke but they can't see it. They are only damaging a sport that needs support by our top drivers now more than ever.

We have proved two years ago that the surface can run 12th scale on foam. We are following the structure for this event or is this a vendetta from a few votes that didn't get there way. I notice at that event certain drivers came to the warm up meeting and never came back again. Talking to ACT and other clubs events start with the entry listing being over 120 and end up with 80 because drivers had the option of pulling out without financial loss - how can a club survive on that kind of loss. If we don't have clubs well you know what happens after that.

Isn't AOC entry closing a certain time frame from the start of the event and drivers won't have any track time until practice - two days before the event? I for one will be entering and I'm prepared to pay even though I will be running rubber on carpet which I have never done before, even bought a new car. Alex you might want to tell the time frame please and the cost of the entry.

For those that think this event was my decision I was against it. This was a decision from the club and club members. I was asked by the committee to run the timing which I have for many, many other clubs for state, national and international events.

We have followed the letter of the law from AARCMCC. We have provided what we promised or will do after this weekend. The club is prepared to learn and already are prepared to introduce certain ideas that were done at the Vic titles and that AARCMCC have suggested

I would stop making excuses for not wanting to run for whatever reason because you are not that good a driver.

Flame on I don't care any more, go to hell.

I now get off the soap box, slowly go to the back of the crowd and leave.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Richards Racing View Post
Will ask the committee and get back to you.
Noel
Well you shouldn't need to ask the committee it's stipulated in the rules, and if the club is going to follow the rules as Trevor pointed out, it will be a requirement?

Originally Posted by Richards Racing View Post
Alex when will you know if you will be working.
That didn't answer his question?

Originally Posted by Richards Racing View Post
Everyone has the choice to do what they want if you do not like the rules of the event then you are not forced to attend, I recently raced at the VIC titles on putting in my online entry a part off the entry was I had to pay by either paypal or CC just like I was buying from a shop online.

I had never raced at the track before so it was my choice.

Noel
No, you didn't, however luckily a 100 + people before you did and were able to eliminate the huge problems they had, which you no doubt weren't aware of, they resurfaced a track with the exact same mixture as what was used at Adrenalin Arena, which is probably the grippiest track I have ever raced on, anyway, this didn't work out and for 3 weeks they tried a number of different things as the track was undrivable, Blow down first week, cold wash the second week, Hot wash the 4th week (That was the magic Bullet) Sugar the 5th.

So as you can see, a perfect example of things not going to plan, and probably why some would like to be safe first.

And Noel I appreciate your frustration with this, however, that isn't the correct attitude, particularly when there is only a handful of entries currently, we ALL need to be working together to grow the hobby, and some of the points raised here were trying to do that, however it seems the committee has taken it personal, and there's no need for that.



Originally Posted by TJ View Post
I have no say in what the committee will decide in this debate. All I'm doing is the timing so this puts me in a very strange position.

I can say what I want.

We are holding people at ransom?? Is it any different than Templestowe a few weeks ago at the Vic titles - all entries had to be paid two weeks out. Nathan, did you go to that event? I know quite a few drivers from NSW did. I didn't hear anything like this from them.

Castle Hill run a poor event????? For the last 15 years Castle Hill has run events at Castle and IMCC which have been one of the best events people have ever been to and still the record for the largest number of entries at an on road event in Sydney. We have helped clubs run events and stood in when clubs could not supply officials - this is not just Whalan last year but IMCC, SMA, Lithgow, Moorebank, Orange, Bathurst and the list goes on. There are not many others that could say they do that. Our top drivers have sacrificed driving to help run meetings without any financial benefit.

In fact, RC Core is more of a club than any other club in the Sydney area. So we have drivers from other clubs already practising on the Surface, one being Craig twice I think.

This bullshit that a few in Sydney kept stirring up at every meeting is why a lot of interstate drivers don't come. I have seen this time and time again and this was one of the major reasons Challenge Cup was stopped. It's also very strange that the people that cause the problem never stepped up to fill the void when it did stop and crawled back into their hole again.

I know that people have their own opinion and I can understand that, but this happens time and time again.

Modified drivers putting down that they would run 21.5 for a joke. Drivers entering National events under false names. These people are the joke but they can't see it. They are only damaging a sport that needs support by our top drivers now more than ever.

We have proved two years ago that the surface can run 12th scale on foam. We are following the structure for this event or is this a vendetta from a few votes that didn't get there way. I notice at that event certain drivers came to the warm up meeting and never came back again. Talking to ACT and other clubs events start with the entry listing being over 120 and end up with 80 because drivers had the option of pulling out without financial loss - how can a club survive on that kind of loss. If we don't have clubs well you know what happens after that.

Isn't AOC entry closing a certain time frame from the start of the event and drivers won't have any track time until practice - two days before the event? I for one will be entering and I'm prepared to pay even though I will be running rubber on carpet which I have never done before, even bought a new car. Alex you might want to tell the time frame please and the cost of the entry.

For those that think this event was my decision I was against it. This was a decision from the club and club members. I was asked by the committee to run the timing which I have for many, many other clubs for state, national and international events.

We have followed the letter of the law from AARCMCC. We have provided what we promised or will do after this weekend. The club is prepared to learn and already are prepared to introduce certain ideas that were done at the Vic titles and that AARCMCC have suggested

I would stop making excuses for not wanting to run for whatever reason because you are not that good a driver.

Flame on I don't care any more, go to hell.

I now get off the soap box, slowly go to the back of the crowd and leave.
I'm not sure where to start, but will so in bullet points

1. Yes I did attend Templestowe and you can see my reply above to Noel re the situation, there's a difference Trev, it was tested and tried for weeks leading up to it, giving people ample time.

2. God knows who "implied" Castle Hill runs a poor event? This is left field, and I will say it again, imo castle hill is probably the best run club in Australia in terms of Tenure, numbers, and the Race director, so I will happily tell anyone that thinks otherwise to pull their head in.

3. Sydney is certainly the most political state, no doubt and there are quite a few sour eggs against anyone that has ANY sort of financial gain. And I myself was silly enough to join the 21.5 idea, however, rectified it immediately after you said it would deter drivers entering. I have no idea on how to fix the state Sydney is in. Perhaps abolish What's AppAnd yes I miss challenge cup and resent the people that played a part in it's diminish.

However please don't think this is why interstater's won't come, Melbourne have set the precedent in events in Australia, and also venues, so there expectations are rather high, as would mine be if I had access to the facilities they have in Melb.

4. AOC can be paid on the day, and that is likely to be the biggest event in Australia, so I'm pretty sure Australia's most experienced race director, will have no issues doing this within a few days.

5. Are you sure the club is prepared to learn? This message says otherwise

Let's kill this suggestion which has turned out to be a shit fight, and you guys do as you wish, and I hope no one is impacted and it's a perfectly successful meeting.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:45 PM
  #78  
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Entry list has been updated: http://www.rctech.net/forum/14352433-post2.html
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:46 PM
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:12 PM
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Have any NSW/ACT major ep10 onroad event forum threads not contain arguments?

If you want to know why people don't attend, maybe this is the reason?

I'm positive there are plenty of people who read the threads like this and just simply don't want to be involved.

I'm not in the "in crowd" I'm sure there are some serious underlying issues (maybe personal between many) whatever the issues are, they need to be sorted and sorted quickly because from an outsiders point of view, ep10 onroad is not inviting, I can see onroad dying a slow death if this continues.
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:30 PM
  #81  
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:47 PM
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:05 PM
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After consultation with AARCMCC and the rules.

2.8.9 The closing date for State Championships is the third Sunday prior to the start of the Championship.

The committee has decided to change the closing date to the close of business on the Monday the 16th May with all monies to be paid at the warm up meeting or by bank transfer by Tuesday the 17th May. Any payments made on Monday please PM either Trevor Johnstone or Noel Richards a copy of your payment.
Any entries after the 16th will incur a $40 late fee. Payment after the 17th will also incur a $40 late payment fee.

2.8.16 Competitors who withdraw from the championship after the closing date or who do not show up will not be entitled to a refund. It is at the host clubs discretion to apply a refund in this situation.

Any competitor withdrawing from the event before the closing date (Monday 16th May) will receive a full refund, as per AARCMCC rules. The committee has decided that withdrawal after this date will result in the club retaining a $10 administration fee with the rest of the money being refunded.
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Richards Racing View Post
After consultation with AARCMCC and the rules.

2.8.9 The closing date for State Championships is the third Sunday prior to the start of the Championship.

The committee has decided to change the closing date to the close of business on the Monday the 16th May with all monies to be paid at the warm up meeting or by bank transfer by Tuesday the 17th May. Any payments made on Monday please PM either Trevor Johnstone or Noel Richards a copy of your payment.
Any entries after the 16th will incur a $40 late fee. Payment after the 17th will also incur a $40 late payment fee.

2.8.16 Competitors who withdraw from the championship after the closing date or who do not show up will not be entitled to a refund. It is at the host clubs discretion to apply a refund in this situation.

Any competitor withdrawing from the event before the closing date (Monday 16th May) will receive a full refund, as per AARCMCC rules. The committee has decided that withdrawal after this date will result in the club retaining a $10 administration fee with the rest of the money being refunded.
Thanks for looking into that Noel 👍.
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:21 PM
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No worries Alex hope too see you there with the Awesomatix and R1 flying around.

Noel
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:16 AM
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Without digging through the rule book.

What is the minimum number of entries to be classified as a championship?
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Aza088 View Post
Without digging through the rule book.

What is the minimum number of entries to be classified as a championship?
From memory 8, but a class can run at the meet with 5.
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Old 04-21-2016, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Radio Active View Post
From memory 8, but a class can run at the meet with 5.
Clubs can specify any number of entries they want for a minimum, but, to count as a valid sanctioned class at the event (so results count towards worlds rankings etc), there needs to be a minimum of 8 entries.

There is some discrepency in the rules when it comes to finals, as they sit actually say "Five (3)" in reference to minimum to run a final, which is something that needs to be tidied up.

Last edited by AARCMCC EP ONR; 04-21-2016 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Corrected entry amounts
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AARCMCC EP ONR View Post
Clubs can specify any number of entries they want for a minimum, but, to count as a valid sanctioned class at the event (so results count towards worlds rankings etc), there needs to be a minimum of 8 entries.

There is some discrepency in the rules when it comes to finals, as they sit actually say "Five (3)" in reference to minimum to run a final, which is something that needs to be tidied up.
Yep, good to see you guys are on the ball. If we want to get more specific there are 3 rules that govern this:

Originally Posted by AARCMCC EP ONR Rule Book
2.7.2 The minimum number of entries in a class is 8 to be recognised as a championship class. Classes with less than 8 entries may be run at the discretion of the host club.
2.7.2 is the main one. And it says what you just said. You officially win a Championship if 8 enter. But the club can run the class with as few as they want.

Originally Posted by AARCMCC EP ONR Rule Book
6.10.1 Drivers will qualify for finals in groups of 10, i.e. the top ten (10) drivers qualify for the A-Final, qualifiers 11-20 qualify for the B-Final, etc. All finals will be of a maximum of ten (10) drivers, and have a minimum of five (3) drivers.
6.10.1 actually refers to the number of drivers who qualify for a final, although it doesn't say that specifically. Otherwise if there were 5 drivers and you were on pole you could withdraw and win the final!

This rule is the analog of the EP OFR rule 6.8.1:

Originally Posted by AARCMCC EP OFR Rule Book
6.8.1 Drivers will qualify for finals in groups of 10, i.e. the top ten (10) drivers qualify for the A-Final, qualifiers 11-20 qualify for the B-Final, etc. All finals will be of a maximum of ten (10) drivers, and have a minimum of five (5) drivers.
The two rule books and these two rules were written at the same time. I suspect the parenthetical number in the ONR Rule Book was either changed at the last minute, or changed later by someone with access to the rule book who just figured five was too many for a lower limit.

Five was definitely the original intention though. The rule exists to ensure that officials don't have too much difficulty tracking down enough marshals for the next race.

Although technically you could run a class with less than five. Clubs don't usually opt for that option because they don't want to run a class with no finals. (I'm speaking here about both offroad and onroad clubs.)

Originally Posted by AARCMCC EP ONR Rule Book
1.3.8 Championship classes with less than 8 competitors posting a counted qualifying and final result will not be counted.
The third relevant rule is 1.3.8. Few people are familiar with this one. Although you win a Championship if 8 people are officially entered in a class, you can't get Worlds Qualifying points unless these people actually record times in heats and finals. This rule exists to stop people abusing the process and entering a stack of their mates who have no intention of actually racing. The rule is itself open to abuse though. Want to stop you main rival moving ahead of you in Worlds Rankings? Well, if there are only 8 entries in the class, simply don't run the final!

If you're looking at cleaning up 6.10.1, I would recommend cleaning up 1.3.8 at the same time. A simple way to do this would be to change it from "qualifying and final result" to "qualifying or final result".
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:33 PM
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The other thing that's a bit of an oddity - for 13.5 and 21.5 the "ranking" points don't currently mean anything. There is no worlds. There is no event where you performance in this class counts towards anything.

However, watch this space.
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