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Old 12-19-2011, 05:00 AM   #46
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Well that blows the big one... Why have the the nationals at Easter. There's no way the finance minister is going to allow that. Was really looking forward to coming over for this one. Especially since it's at St Ives...
Why is everyone shocked and outraged about the Easter date now (as opposed to every other year)? That has been the traditional date for something like 15 years or more. It's not unexpected. In fact it's one of the few events on the Australian calendar that you can know when it is going to be to the week. The others sometimes shift around a bit, this one only when it is absolutely necessary.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:34 AM   #47
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Shocked and outraged is probably a bit of an "over-statement".

While it cannot be easy to make all these events fit, surely at some point we have to stop worrying about what the "other" categories of our hobby are doing. For starters I would like to see that the off road segment does not move dates etc so it doesnt clash with an on road event.........we are two completely different categories - why does it matter if they clash. If people are doing both (I am one of them) - then they have to decide what is more important to them.

To go even further out on a limb and cop a lot of flak - I reckon we should be worried about the 1/10th buggy calendar ONLY, as should 1/8th worry about their dates with limited regard to what we are doing in 1/10th scale (within reason of course). NO chance of ever making EVERYONE happy - however you need to look after the ones that support your segment the most.

BIGGEST issue by far is that not every person that does this hobby is single (read - no other family commitments) and or can get these times off. Easter is very much a FAMILY break - and it can get hard to take ones self away from loved ones for an entire 4 or five days over this period..........the October long weekend would be a much better time for the event - especially as it would be a "climax" for the end of the season - something to really look forward to. It is also not traditionally a "family or religious" break - so competitors and their families are less likely to frown on them being away so long.

I don't know , there is no easy answer. However, focus on the category is really where it needs to start.........perhaps the governing body has other reasons for what they do. Either way we hear very little from them in any official capacity. As far as I know - you are not involved "officially" with our governing body Daniel - however you sure do allot of the work they should be doing by being on the forums, on their behalf.

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Old 12-19-2011, 07:05 AM   #48
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Why is everyone shocked and outraged about the Easter date now (as opposed to every other year)? That has been the traditional date for something like 15 years or more. It's not unexpected. In fact it's one of the few events on the Australian calendar that you can know when it is going to be to the week. The others sometimes shift around a bit, this one only when it is absolutely necessary.
Not shocked or outraged.... Dissapointed maybe. Easter means family just like Christmas time. To put the biggest event of the 1/10th offroad calender at that time seems a bit counter productive. Besides the fact that everything at that time of year costs more (travel, accomodation), aren't we alienating possible entries from competitors with family comitments?
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:47 PM   #49
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To go even further out on a limb and cop a lot of flak - I reckon we should be worried about the 1/10th buggy calendar ONLY, as should 1/8th worry about their dates with limited regard to what we are doing in 1/10th scale (within reason of course). NO chance of ever making EVERYONE happy - however you need to look after the ones that support your segment the most.
Darryn, while I agree with the philosophy of looking after your own first, there are many people who race 1/8 and 1/10 and whether we like it or not, 1/8 often takes precedence. Look at what happened in 2010 when the truggy nats and the 1/10 nats were on the same weekend. I really liked the idea that Daniel proposed where each of the main categories (EP OFR, EP ONR, IC OFR, IC ONR) is allocated the 1st / 2nd / 3rd / 4th weekend of the months for state titles and nationals. That way you avoid all direct clashes.


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Why is everyone shocked and outraged about the Easter date now (as opposed to every other year)? That has been the traditional date for something like 15 years or more. It's not unexpected. In fact it's one of the few events on the Australian calendar that you can know when it is going to be to the week. The others sometimes shift around a bit, this one only when it is absolutely necessary.
Daniel, I can remember back to the 2008 nats at keilor (over Easter) and people were complaining about the date then. 2009 and 2010 were held away from Easter. Most of the nats in the 90s were over Australia Day, but through the 2000s it seems to have migrated to Easter.

I think there are a few forces at play:
- electric is seeing a strong resurgence, which brings with it a wider range of people, not all hardcore. Those racing in the early 2000s were generally the 'hardcore' racers who will race any day of the year!
- there are a lot of us who have returned to electric after a few year layoff and now have families.
- there was talk of changing the dates, which got a lot of peoples hopes up (mine included).

Ultimately, it went to a vote, and the decision was to stay at Easter, so we all have to respect that. Its easy to knock Easter, but hard to find an alternative which suits everyone.

This forum should be a place to debate these issues healthily, and so far this thread has stayed civil which makes a nice change

Unfortunately for me, the Easter date means I wont be attending the nats, but Im sure there will still be a big turnout and it will be an awesome event. Hopefully someone gets video for those of us who cant make it.

Ray
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:17 PM   #50
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Agree Ray. I am not sure of what happened on the weekend that the truggy nats and the 1/10th nats were held on.

As for off road (both 1/8th and 1/10 electric), I do know though that the number of people running BOTH 1/8th and 1/10th at the "nationals level" is pretty low, and the number of people that would travel to all those state and national titles in considerably lower than that. Obviously you would not TRY to have the 1/8th and 1/10th nats on the same weekend. The state titles could be "spread" out over the year, sure there might be some clashes - but ultimately we are only having the dates not clash for a very few select entrants. (And hey - a number of them are mates - so I don't have a personal axe to grind at all).

Either way - the on road electric nationals have got their date right......end of the year when the weather is "**typically**" much better and the state titles have been run and won. It seems pointless to me to try and have all categories not clashing. At the very least on road and off road should be treated as two completely separate entities.

Please note: I am not trying to get the dates changed for this nationals at all, whilst that would be great, I understand what our governing body has been trying to do. When I was younger, yes the Nat’s were MOSTLY on at Easter or the Australia day long weekend. It mattered less then though (Easter date), as my parents, and many others, made it part of the Easter thing. Juniors and younger drivers were a major part of the scene back then. It was parents and families fitting around weekend. There are a lot fewer juniors now, and most of us have young families and other "duties" to attend to. That doesn’t even mention that there are plenty of other things competing with the hobby for our time now. Just seems to make more sense to have a meeting on when it will maximise your chances of having the people that run the category regularly.

They (AARCMCC) could make life a whole lot less complicated for themselves and us if they at least separated on road and off road when considering dates. Put the nationals to the end of the year like the on road nats at the very least for a start.

Either way - the Nat’s is going to be awesome. It has been over 20 years since St Ives held a national - back then it was just before the Worlds. I know some of the plans and what is going to be done. It is going to be an epic event.

Cheers

Darryn
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:54 PM   #51
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At the moment there are enough weekends in the year that we can run 4 categories with state titles for 8 states, and national titles and not have a clash. It is theoretically possible. Minor clashes I don't mind. If an onroad event in SA clashes with an offroad event in Qld, well, that's not going to be a problem for many.

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As for off road (both 1/8th and 1/10 electric), I do know though that the number of people running BOTH 1/8th and 1/10th at the "nationals level" is pretty low, and the number of people that would travel to all those state and national titles in considerably lower than that. Obviously you would not TRY to have the 1/8th and 1/10th nats on the same weekend. The state titles could be "spread" out over the year, sure there might be some clashes - but ultimately we are only having the dates not clash for a very few select entrants. (And hey - a number of them are mates - so I don't have a personal axe to grind at all).
Clashes between 1/10 and 1/8 offroad are an issue though. the IC OFR section (see IC OFR Proposal thread) initially had the NSW IC OFR State Champs scheduled for the same weekend as the NSW EP OFR State Champs. I counted 8 drivers just in Mod who ran both of those events last year, all of them ran 2 or more classes at the EP event. That equates to around 15% of the entries at this years event. That *is* significant. Some clashes needed to be avoided like the plague.
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:59 PM   #52
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Understand everyones issues with the Easter date as I also will find it hard to work with this date. The St Ives submission to AARCMCC actually requested for a date later in the year for reasons that have been mentioned previously (ie weather, expensive/limited accomodation & family commitments) but unfortunetly this was not accepted.

In saying all this we were not going to relinquish the chance of running the Nationals at St Ives just because we could not get our first date of preference.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:17 PM   #53
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Understand everyones issues with the Easter date as I also will find it hard to work with this date. The St Ives submission to AARCMCC actually requested for a date later in the year for reasons that have been mentioned previously (ie weather, expensive/limited accomodation & family commitments) but unfortunetly this was not accepted.

In saying all this we were not going to relinquish the chance of running the Nationals at St Ives just because we could not get our first date of preference.
Forgive my lack of understanding on how this works - but who makes the decisions in AARCMCC pertaining to the refusal of the proposed change of date? Was it put to the other clubs as to what dates were preferred for their members? With the number of people "shocked or outraged" - I cant see that there was much consultation?

I would also like to know, by perhaps someone that actually officially represents AARCMCC, why is it that the dates for the last two nationals were able to be moved to a more "appropriate" time for that state/location? Why is it that this nationals in NSW was not able to be moved to a date requested by the hosting club? What was the reason behind this successful change of dates for WA and NT/FNQ Nationals in the past 2 years? Did the hosting club for next years nationals not put forward a valid enough case? Did it clash with some other event? What was the reason? I ask this more so we can LEARN why and how these decisions are made - so that we can structure proposals successfully in the future. I am NOT trying to make an arguement out of this. Myself and others would definately like to know...

Either way - it did not give the "winning" club much time to prepare for the event. Is there a time frame that has to be given to the club in regards to having enough notice that they have indeed won the right to host the nationals? The announcement was only made a week or two ago - and the event is in April?

Anyways, I have a lot of questions and would like to understand how it all works. I am sure I am not alone - I am just the one "brazen" enough to ask the question on a public forum so everyone can see, rather than be one of the ones that stick my head in the sand and moan about it at the track.

Cheers

Darryn
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:17 PM   #54
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My go,

As mentioned before why hold the grand final at the start of the year???? there are plenty of other weekends towards the end of the year where the weather is a lil more friendly etc
If you run more than one disipline and you have a clash then you have to make a decision on which one to run, i'm guessing you'd choose your strongest, its not a life altering one and you'll get over it.
I wouldn't call 15% significant are we forgetting about the other 85% or is it just catering to a few names in the hobby that have the means to run both/all
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:19 PM   #55
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Understand everyones issues with the Easter date as I also will find it hard to work with this date. The St Ives submission to AARCMCC actually requested for a date later in the year for reasons that have been mentioned previously (ie weather, expensive/limited accomodation & family commitments) but unfortunetly this was not accepted.

In saying all this we were not going to relinquish the chance of running the Nationals at St Ives just because we could not get our first date of preference.
Im sure it will be a big event regardless of forum banter we in WA coped it last year on a couple of areas boycott was mentioned by a couple racers but we still got a good attendance and very competitive racing considering we in WA have most likely the highest costs involved for people attending from the east coast.

Tho's who really want a National Title will attend regardless of the date, Guys who want to experience a Nationals will try there hardest to attend, all have plenty of time to sort these issues, some might just have to bribe the family or wive to get there im sure its happened before...

Let the guys run the event and forward issues to AARCMCC directly IMO, St Ives is not AARCMCC and they dont need the grief in this thread

All the best to the St Ives guys with the event and hope it all locks together smoothly in the end as running a Nationals is a big task, I'm going to make a effort to attend this event.

Note: to Retro RC ... WA's Nationals was held at Easter.. ACT and QLD were the difference
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:26 PM   #56
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This great club and its members are looking forward to the challenge and are more than capable, and preps are more than well under way, come one come all it's going to be a fantastic event looking forward to it
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:26 PM   #57
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Frankly, I blame XXX-Chris for all of this!

Agree with much of the sentiment here. I put my battle suit on early for this and won the Easter battle with my other half. I'll be there.

As Ray pointed out, there seems to be fewer younger people racing these days compared to 10-15 years ago, which means family and other commitments become more prominent at times like Easter. Something to consider for the future.

Looking forward to a Nats at St Ives. I know it is going to be an epic race meet! See you there.

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Old 12-19-2011, 04:32 PM   #58
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Note: to Retro RC ... WA's Nationals was held at Easter.. ACT and QLD were the difference

Let the guys run the event and forward issues to AARCMCC directly IMO, St Ives is not AARCMCC and they dont need the grief in this thread
I stand corrected mate - thanks for that! I should have remembered - the ACT nationals were the ones that came back to off road racing. Bloody hopeless "senoir" memory there!

The nationals at St Ives will be huge - probably one of the biggest for a long while. The date change probably would have made it easier for even more entrants to attend, but that is how it has played out this time.

This discussion doesn't spoil the thread - especially if it is constructive. An email to AARCMCC might get answered once in a while - however through experience - I can say I have emailed questions on at least 3 occasions and have never received a reply? Maybe my questions were to hard.

The Nationals, wherever it is held, is a truly awesome experience. I guess I would just like to see more people have the chance to partake in it.

Cheers

Darryn
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:44 PM   #59
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Firstly, let's clear something up. The 2011 Nationals were held 20th to 25th of April (http://www.rctech.net/forum/australi...nationals.html). According the the calendar I've just checked 3 times (http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?country=29) that WAS Easter in 2011! WA didn't get the event moved.

The reason the event was able to be moved in Qld, is because Townsville had it, and Easter would have placed it inside the wet/monsoon season*. That's not an increased chance of rain, that's more like a guarantee of rain, and lots of it.

Additionally, thanks to the work of Gavin and others we now actually have a rule set that we can follow as of January 2011. In that rule book it says the Nationals date is Easter. So, a club would need a good reason to be granted another date, more so than in 2010 when the rule book was such a mess it was ignored as often as it was followed.

The AARCMCC Executive are the ones responsible for scheduling sanctioned meetings, if a club requests a date change from the published calendar they are the ones who are going to make the call.

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Originally Posted by http://www.abc.net.au/storm/monsoon/what.htm under the heading "The Australian Wet or Monsoon Season (November to April)" describing weather in Tropical Australia
*During the wet season there are usually two or three major monsoon events. These events occur when the monsoon trough ( a low pressure trough associated with intense rainfall ) moves south over the landmass of north Western Australia.

The trough may remain over the land for periods of one day, to several weeks.

It usually overlies the continent for about seven days, during which time strong north westerly winds blow and rain falls almost constantly.

The later phases in February and March are often longer and more intense. It is then that the cumulative effect of the rains may be seen as surface water becomes evident.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:46 PM   #60
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Frankly, I blame XXX-Chris for all of this!

Agree with much of the sentiment here. I put my battle suit on early for this and won the Easter battle with my other half. I'll be there.

As Ray pointed out, there seems to be fewer younger people racing these days compared to 10-15 years ago, which means family and other commitments become more prominent at times like Easter. Something to consider for the future.

Looking forward to a Nats at St Ives. I know it is going to be an epic race meet! See you there.

Cheers,
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