Bumps and Jumps 09/10 offroad season
04-09-2010, 01:02 PM
#1652
This discussion should involve all of the local tracks, Garlands, Bumps, Pit Stop and LCRC.
In the past week I have had no less than 10 phone calls regarding the rules for short course. Rather than express my opinion on an individual basis, I think it would be best to do it in a public forum. Coincidentally other people share my opinion that I am going to state.
I am sure I won't get any argument from anyone in stating that the short course trucks have been the best and biggest thing to revive 1/10 off-road in 15 years. Tracks all over the country are flourishing thanks to Traxxas and the slash. Why have these trucks been so successful? The answer is simple because they were out of the box stock - for $300 you could competitively race one of these and if you were capable of driving you could win right out of the box. It gave beginners a place to start and more advanced drivers the ability to race and simply have fun and not worry about setup and working on your car. For those of you who have not witnessed this spec phenomenon in the past are probably to new to remember running RC Outfitters with a Tamiya TL01 – it was not uncommon to see 90 of these on a Saturday night! What killed the class? The fact that Tamiya came out with a kit that included many more adjustments, thus requiring you to buy a new kit to be competitive.
This is exactly what is now occurring in the Corr Truck class, although this time it is a self inflicted injury. Weather or not it is true that you need to have a blitz running slash tires and an sc-10 motor is irrelevant, (or a 17.5 – which is ludicrous with today’s technology a turbo mode esc and a 17.5 is faster than my 8.5!). It’s all in the perception. If someone running a stock slash get’s beat by someone that is running the aforementioned combo it does not matter that they cant drive as good as that person it is the perception that you need that equipment to win. That person might quit racing because they don’t want to spend another $200 plus on a brush-less systems and tires, thus hurting tracks, hobby shops, manufacturers, and most importantly other racers. We have all seen people show up with cars and not enough people to run in there particular class. In my rough calculations it is just as cheap to run a mod truck (RTR T4 brushless 2.4 for $250) with all the upgrades you might potentially have to do to compete in the box stock class. So based on the above why would a track owner change the rules to allow all these modifications? I can’t answer for them, but it might be because people talked them into it thinking it was the best scenario, it might be because they thought the additional sales would help them, who knows but the result might not be good.
No one really knows at this point, but I can tell you that the Corr Truck class at bumps the past two winters has been fantastic, and based on the calls I have received, the same might not be true this summer, without some changes to the rules from all the local tracks. I probably conduct bumps different from other owners in that I never make a rules decision without lot’s of feedback from the racers, most times it is a vote. I am also careful not to base a rules change only on the guys that run up front, but also from the one’s in the middle, and the one’s in the back of the pack.
So one might ask why I would I type all this and put myself out there for the abuse? Simple I want RC to continue to grow, not only because I genuinely care about rc, but it is also my livelihood. I don’t see continued growth this summer based on the conversations I have had with other racers. In other words more people are likely to drop $300 to start racing instead of $400 you also need to put X esc in, change the plugs, put Y tires on, etc... We have 2 different trends going here Bumps and LCRC running basically box stock and Garlands and Pit Stop running any manufacturers stock products in the vehicles. We should all be on the same page, with everyone running the same rules – Pit Stop currently runs a roar corr truck class, but for all intents it is simply mod corr class, as I previously mentioned the 17.5’s are insanely fast with the new speedo technology. So we are just talking about the stock class. Since I know that I am not the only one that feels this way this is the chance for the you the racer to voice your opinion so that all the tracks can run the same configuration and it needs to be figured out now before the outdoor season kicks into full gear. Please don’t chime in if you don’t run the class. Sincerely, Chris
In the past week I have had no less than 10 phone calls regarding the rules for short course. Rather than express my opinion on an individual basis, I think it would be best to do it in a public forum. Coincidentally other people share my opinion that I am going to state.
I am sure I won't get any argument from anyone in stating that the short course trucks have been the best and biggest thing to revive 1/10 off-road in 15 years. Tracks all over the country are flourishing thanks to Traxxas and the slash. Why have these trucks been so successful? The answer is simple because they were out of the box stock - for $300 you could competitively race one of these and if you were capable of driving you could win right out of the box. It gave beginners a place to start and more advanced drivers the ability to race and simply have fun and not worry about setup and working on your car. For those of you who have not witnessed this spec phenomenon in the past are probably to new to remember running RC Outfitters with a Tamiya TL01 – it was not uncommon to see 90 of these on a Saturday night! What killed the class? The fact that Tamiya came out with a kit that included many more adjustments, thus requiring you to buy a new kit to be competitive.
This is exactly what is now occurring in the Corr Truck class, although this time it is a self inflicted injury. Weather or not it is true that you need to have a blitz running slash tires and an sc-10 motor is irrelevant, (or a 17.5 – which is ludicrous with today’s technology a turbo mode esc and a 17.5 is faster than my 8.5!). It’s all in the perception. If someone running a stock slash get’s beat by someone that is running the aforementioned combo it does not matter that they cant drive as good as that person it is the perception that you need that equipment to win. That person might quit racing because they don’t want to spend another $200 plus on a brush-less systems and tires, thus hurting tracks, hobby shops, manufacturers, and most importantly other racers. We have all seen people show up with cars and not enough people to run in there particular class. In my rough calculations it is just as cheap to run a mod truck (RTR T4 brushless 2.4 for $250) with all the upgrades you might potentially have to do to compete in the box stock class. So based on the above why would a track owner change the rules to allow all these modifications? I can’t answer for them, but it might be because people talked them into it thinking it was the best scenario, it might be because they thought the additional sales would help them, who knows but the result might not be good.
No one really knows at this point, but I can tell you that the Corr Truck class at bumps the past two winters has been fantastic, and based on the calls I have received, the same might not be true this summer, without some changes to the rules from all the local tracks. I probably conduct bumps different from other owners in that I never make a rules decision without lot’s of feedback from the racers, most times it is a vote. I am also careful not to base a rules change only on the guys that run up front, but also from the one’s in the middle, and the one’s in the back of the pack.
So one might ask why I would I type all this and put myself out there for the abuse? Simple I want RC to continue to grow, not only because I genuinely care about rc, but it is also my livelihood. I don’t see continued growth this summer based on the conversations I have had with other racers. In other words more people are likely to drop $300 to start racing instead of $400 you also need to put X esc in, change the plugs, put Y tires on, etc... We have 2 different trends going here Bumps and LCRC running basically box stock and Garlands and Pit Stop running any manufacturers stock products in the vehicles. We should all be on the same page, with everyone running the same rules – Pit Stop currently runs a roar corr truck class, but for all intents it is simply mod corr class, as I previously mentioned the 17.5’s are insanely fast with the new speedo technology. So we are just talking about the stock class. Since I know that I am not the only one that feels this way this is the chance for the you the racer to voice your opinion so that all the tracks can run the same configuration and it needs to be figured out now before the outdoor season kicks into full gear. Please don’t chime in if you don’t run the class. Sincerely, Chris
04-09-2010, 02:11 PM
#1653
Tech Addict
iTrader: (23)
Nice post Chris! Here at our local track[ Altoona raceway] will run the same rules as bumps for our outdoor. We have had several new sct racer's get membership's for this season and our owners approach to the rtr rules seems to be working. I do believe that the [ ONLY ] exception to that is the allowance of any sct esc due to the blitz esc being lousy.
I really enjoyed my trips to bumps and like those rules. Hope to make it down alot more this next indoor season.
Brian Daugherty
I really enjoyed my trips to bumps and like those rules. Hope to make it down alot more this next indoor season.
Brian Daugherty
04-09-2010, 11:40 PM
#1654
Tech Rookie
SCT rules
Chris;
I think you make a great point with the SCT. I got into the class with my son because it was affordable for both of us to do together. It was great racing with everyone at Bumps and then G's over the summer. When the competition split at Bumps into the Pro and Spec, I thought it was great. It gave the more advanced drivers their chance to race each other and the newer drivers a chance to be race on their level. I'm not one of the best racers, but with experience I got better and had a better time racing with those I could compete with. Being in the Pro made me better I felt. It also gave most Pro racers a chance to watch their kids race, as I know a lot of father son groups race. Even though I got a blitz to try for Jerin and I, and I know a few are running the Blitz full time, I don't see the point off all the upgrades to the trucks to run in the classes. I've seen Pat run both slash and blitz, Reigle with all trucks but the b;itz, and they have run 1, 2 all season. It's not any mods, it's the ability of them. I've seen Tim M run the same truck he ran all last season and this season and he finished 4th in Pro because of his finishes and ability. I know Bob ran the BL set up but I also know his reasons for going that route, and agree with them. I agree that all tracks should agree on the rules because once the indoor season is done, most racers will be looking at different tracks in the area. It will be easier to race the same truck and make slight adjustments due to conditions than to have to switch motors, shocks, tires, and basically have a new truck depending on where you go. I enjoy racing at Bumps, and will be mostly at G's, but would also like to get to Altoona and Pitstop. 4 tracks with one truck seems a whole lot better than 4 truck set ups at 4 tracks. I look forward to a wonderful final day at Bumps and hopefully some great racing over the summer both at Bumps and G's!
I think you make a great point with the SCT. I got into the class with my son because it was affordable for both of us to do together. It was great racing with everyone at Bumps and then G's over the summer. When the competition split at Bumps into the Pro and Spec, I thought it was great. It gave the more advanced drivers their chance to race each other and the newer drivers a chance to be race on their level. I'm not one of the best racers, but with experience I got better and had a better time racing with those I could compete with. Being in the Pro made me better I felt. It also gave most Pro racers a chance to watch their kids race, as I know a lot of father son groups race. Even though I got a blitz to try for Jerin and I, and I know a few are running the Blitz full time, I don't see the point off all the upgrades to the trucks to run in the classes. I've seen Pat run both slash and blitz, Reigle with all trucks but the b;itz, and they have run 1, 2 all season. It's not any mods, it's the ability of them. I've seen Tim M run the same truck he ran all last season and this season and he finished 4th in Pro because of his finishes and ability. I know Bob ran the BL set up but I also know his reasons for going that route, and agree with them. I agree that all tracks should agree on the rules because once the indoor season is done, most racers will be looking at different tracks in the area. It will be easier to race the same truck and make slight adjustments due to conditions than to have to switch motors, shocks, tires, and basically have a new truck depending on where you go. I enjoy racing at Bumps, and will be mostly at G's, but would also like to get to Altoona and Pitstop. 4 tracks with one truck seems a whole lot better than 4 truck set ups at 4 tracks. I look forward to a wonderful final day at Bumps and hopefully some great racing over the summer both at Bumps and G's!
04-10-2010, 03:29 AM
#1655
I do agree with you Chris. If you are going to go that way then it should be for all trucks. Why can the traxxas run aluminum upgrades, the strike put cvds, the kyosho run different shocks, put different foams in the tires. But when asked if we could change the esc in a blitz with another SCT esc we where told no. Changing an esc so the thing does not go into reverse and tear the tranny apart would be nice and with my son running lipo having a cutoff would be nice. It has to be all or nothing. Like I was told each truck has there pros and cons and you have to deal with it but I feel that was not the case. These are justs my feelings and I have always said each track has there rules and if you want to run there then you have to play by there rules. I know you let me run a BL set-up in my blitz 2 weeks but that was more or less because there was not a mod class. Had a blast racing there this winter and look forward to running there again next winter. But I also really liked the idea of a Pro SCT and the Standard SCT class. I really like to watch my son race instead of racing against him. It also gave him a chance to do well against people of the same ability and would like to see more tracks follow this. This is why I bought a Mod Buggy to run this summer so I can watch him race.
As for running 17.5 brushless I can see where that is an advantage over the other motors.
Just my 2 cents.
As for running 17.5 brushless I can see where that is an advantage over the other motors.
Just my 2 cents.
Last edited by Bob Moore; 04-10-2010 at 10:50 AM.
04-10-2010, 08:39 AM
#1656
Tech Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Castle Mamba Max Pro. Feel its power!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 21,220
Trader Rating: 51 (100%+)
Good thing my new kayak is coming in next week. No rules of the week and no one crying except for the fish I'm trying to catch.
Not sure why we never can have one class that stays simple and cheap. We have a million other classes in offroad if you want to modify them and go faster. We did offer a mod class for SCT all year at Bumps and no one took the opportunity to use it so its simple that guys don't want to run an expensive class but still like to complain about wanting to run brushless. Go figure.
No question that the new speedos Tekin and Castle with a 17.5 are way faster than any spec motor in any of the SCTs. You still need to drive and set them up but they are still way faster.
With so many rules most racers or spectators can't figure it out and would rather just not buy one than to deal with so many rules. The simple grass roots racing that SCT racing brings in less than 2 years is being ruined just like pretty much ever other class of racing. Makes the decision to look at other hobbies alot easier thats for sure.
One reason dirt oval has flourished is pretty much everyone runs one set of rules thru almost all tracks so it is easy to go to different tracks knowing the rules are ALL THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DODC is so successful because of the rule packages they have. Attendance has never been better in dirt oval.
Good luck trying to get all the tracks together as it is thankless job. To bad the simpliest class causes the most headaches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its ashame.
Brian
Not sure why we never can have one class that stays simple and cheap. We have a million other classes in offroad if you want to modify them and go faster. We did offer a mod class for SCT all year at Bumps and no one took the opportunity to use it so its simple that guys don't want to run an expensive class but still like to complain about wanting to run brushless. Go figure.
No question that the new speedos Tekin and Castle with a 17.5 are way faster than any spec motor in any of the SCTs. You still need to drive and set them up but they are still way faster.
With so many rules most racers or spectators can't figure it out and would rather just not buy one than to deal with so many rules. The simple grass roots racing that SCT racing brings in less than 2 years is being ruined just like pretty much ever other class of racing. Makes the decision to look at other hobbies alot easier thats for sure.
One reason dirt oval has flourished is pretty much everyone runs one set of rules thru almost all tracks so it is easy to go to different tracks knowing the rules are ALL THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DODC is so successful because of the rule packages they have. Attendance has never been better in dirt oval.
Good luck trying to get all the tracks together as it is thankless job. To bad the simpliest class causes the most headaches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its ashame.
Brian
04-11-2010, 05:59 AM
#1657
i got into the sct class cause it was cheap! i run the mod truck class and i seen how easy it was to drop endless money into it because something new was comin out and u had to buy it or else u werent competetive! i bought the sct because u get it out of the box plug it in n go race n have fun! the first time i ever ran at bumps i qualified 5th for the amain! not to bad for never running offroad!! i like the way the rules are and if everybody is gonna change them to the gay rules they r sayin then im either gonna sell it or just keep it to run at bumps! thanks chris it seems like ur one of the only level headed owners around anymore! As far as burnin up motors ive raced the same motor in my slash for 4 months about every week and with a little tlc to it it will last a long time!!!!
04-11-2010, 07:27 AM
#1658
ets i agree with u 100%. if you don't like the stock rules that is what the modified class is for. the class got so big because of the spec rules. i wish all the tracks had the same rules as bumps. now to race out side i need to buy different sets of tires to find out what works the best at each track. (g's , pit stop) there should be no way that the new kits coming out like the ft sc10 and blitz ese should be able to run in the spec class. these are kit trucks, which normaly are made to run in the mod class. if it ant broke, don't fix it.
i would leave the rules the way they have been at bumps.
i would leave the rules the way they have been at bumps.
04-11-2010, 07:35 AM
#1659
monster trucks went thru this same deal 20yrs ago. did anybody see the new electric offroad rules that 'MEOW' put out. rubbish. surprised they didnt notice that most places and big races already didnt use the last revision of rules they came up with. now this joker. oh well...guess folks will go back to nitro lol.
R
R
04-11-2010, 03:22 PM
#1661
Tech Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Castle Mamba Max Pro. Feel its power!!!!!!!!!!
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Trader Rating: 51 (100%+)
04-11-2010, 06:49 PM
#1662
I just wanted to say I had a blast today racing A laid back and fun day of just messing around. The last race with the balloons was my favorite. A perfect way to end the indoor season.
A laid back and fun day of just messing around. The last race with the balloons was my favorite. A perfect way to end the indoor season.
04-12-2010, 05:29 AM
#1663
Tech Adept
iTrader: (1)
I'm going to get my B3 running in a few weeks, 1/10th scale 2WD buggy hasn't died too has it?
04-12-2010, 05:55 AM
#1664
Tech Regular
I raced at Pit Stop this Saturday and kept my truck just as it was when I raced the Elite race and every other race for that matter at Bumps. Chad had different tires and CVD's in his Kyosho and we were pretty even. I TQ'd and he qualified 2nd. During the main he had a wreck early on and I was bored out front so I waited for him...Hands down the best thing I could have done as we battled for most of the race after that. If I had some bad luck, Chad waited for me. All the turnmarshall's said they kept finding themselves watching our battle rather than the race...lol
I think BOX STOCK is the way to go for a SPEC class!
Bryan
I think BOX STOCK is the way to go for a SPEC class!
Bryan
04-12-2010, 03:14 PM
#1665
I raced at Pit Stop this Saturday and kept my truck just as it was when I raced the Elite race and every other race for that matter at Bumps. Chad had different tires and CVD's in his Kyosho and we were pretty even. I TQ'd and he qualified 2nd. During the main he had a wreck early on and I was bored out front so I waited for him...Hands down the best thing I could have done as we battled for most of the race after that. If I had some bad luck, Chad waited for me. All the turnmarshall's said they kept finding themselves watching our battle rather than the race...lol
I think BOX STOCK is the way to go for a SPEC class!
Bryan
I think BOX STOCK is the way to go for a SPEC class!
Bryan
Agreed!