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Old 03-13-2009, 09:41 PM   #1366
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I think Dan wants to make everyone happy.....which is pretty hard sometimes. The only compromise right now for Nitro and Electric is to run 15 minute mains which isn't bad for us Nitro guys but I wouldn't exactly call it good either. The best scenario is if there were enough Electrics to run their own class but I am not sure if that is the case just yet. It seems that Electric is getting pretty popular so hopefully that will happen soon enough. Is it possible to do pit stops to change a battery?? I have no idea.
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:41 PM   #1367
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also usually the person who has the lead at the 15 min. mark would win in a 20-25 min. race they just further the gap on the rest of the field IMO.
That is not always the case. Problems with the car. Running out of fuel. etc. plays into the race with longer mains
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:54 PM   #1368
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battery changes would take a while because you have to pull the body in most cases, but they are possible.

true there are many roles that factor in i guess i jumped the gun but still if somebody is fast they usually don't run out of gas or brake thats what makes them fast. IMO.
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:39 PM   #1369
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Nitro could run with gas in a 25,prob 30 min race If they didn't have the mandatory pits at 7.5 min.I haven't tried a quick batt change but I would think 30-45 sec.Life is good if the equal talent elec/nitro guys run head to head.I cant win so I say just running with my peers for that long is fun/good,but like I said before I race so I can get away from real life one day a week.You only win for that split second in time but how much is shootin the breeze all day with your Buddy's worth? May be a different story with an elec guy that can win his class every week(did you bump up yet Matt?) I think its all perspective.What would be nice is somebody who knows how,show Dan how to split classes in the same race.They did it at palomar so Dans better software should be capable of the same thing.I would hate to have to run in a class with real fast guys for fear of taking them out & I'm sure they hate running with retards like me that do random stuff on the track.Something to bring up in the drivers meeting tomorrow,we decide & tell Dan how we want it done & he makes it happen. We are the voice(SINGULAR) I dont think Dan can cope well with 30 different ideas.Lets decide what WE want & give Dan 1 direction to go in. If it dont work out WE choose again & let Dan know what direction to go in.I know for a fact Dan is willing to do everything he can to make US(his profit)happy if we give him a UNIFIED direction to work twards.I changed my mind I'm coming at least for awhile tomorrow.Tech5 your in charge of the track user meeting before the drivers meeting tomorrow.Lets hash out at least 2 things to start with & work from there. I hear things on here that are not brought up at the track. The time for being busy is over lets take 30min out of our race day & better OUR track.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:26 PM   #1370
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Seems that there are some good points here. I don't really see the big deal if "all" electric buggies raced together. In every class (Pro, Expert, Sportsman) there are the fast guys and the slow guys. The fast guys need to be patient and the slow guys need to realize that it doesn't slow them down to let the fast guy through. Back in the good old days (DHW Electric 10th Scale) the only classes were Novice, Stock, and Modified. Nothing was segregated by skill level and everything turned out just fine. I have no problem racing through slower traffic and no problem moving over for the "fast" guys. Also, if mains were 20 minutes wouldn't the 3 pits for nitro vehicles be close to the same time as 1 pit for electric?
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:36 AM   #1371
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Well i love all these ideas,great to hear from everybody. The true example of whats going on is the Nitro Challenge. I heard lots of peole asking for electric 1/8 to be ran at the Nitro Challenge. So Joey made a class and there was 8 or so buggys,that actually showed up. I bought a nitro car to run nitro and long races. I personaly have lost alot of races in the last 5 minutes and won a few races in the last five minutes. The elctrics are cool but take away that wow factor of gas racing like ,do you have a good pit guy, are you going to run out of gas , flameout , how good is your tune. The only problem you might have with a electric is if you burn up your whole system,no worrys about pitting pick me up real quick,for a 5 second pit . Bottom line is i did'nt buy a electric buggy to run with gas, i bought a 1/8 gas buggy to run with gas buggys and run longer mains. 67 other gas racers should not have to sacrifice longer mains depending on the runtime of 10 electric guys. Just think of nascar with only a 65 lap race , Boring no pitting or the current setup. You get the point.
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:34 AM   #1372
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ARC's AMP Racing Association is putting on a Nitro Bonus Race this next Saturday March 21st. There is a guaranteed Purse of $500 to be split among Sportsman ($150) Expert ($150) and Pro($200) nitro buggy only. Entry Fees will be $40 for those classes and $10 of that entry fee will also be going to the payout....back to the racers of that particular class. Here are some more notes...
-Truggy Class will be run as usual with an entry fee of $20....normal club racing only
-Electric buggy's will be in their own class with details to follow (most likely the same $40 entry as Nitro, just no "extra" bonus)
-Track will open @9:00 and racing will start @12:00. Signups will close Promptly @10:30 so all "cash" can be handled and payouts can be calculated prior to starting the race.
-This race was "sponsored" with the sole purpose of having a good time and hopefully a lot of competition will show up to see what ARC is all about.
-All of the details are not ironed out and Dan will be giving out more details tomorrow at ARC. I just wanted to start getting the word out. Tell your friends to come out, try and make some money, and have a lot of fun.

just wanted to let you guys know i just posted this whole post at the NITRO PIT forum for arizona...i am going to do my best to make it but just had surgery today so i dont know just yet...but some of my freinds had mentioned hitting up some of the races in cali in between series racing here....peace out hope you guys get some az company...
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Old 03-14-2009, 08:31 AM   #1373
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At the Nitro Challenge there was NO advertising about an electric class. YOU were the one who asked us why we werent going! And based on this and other peoples observations, we felt welcome. Guess we were wrong.

Fact is that even Kevin Gahn from Losi didn't know that the Nitro Challenge was going to be open to electric. He had someone from Losi ship his car to him at the Pit. This is why there were only 9 buggys running. Because we were in AZ and no one but us and a few others knew what was going on.

Perfect example of how ridiculous this subject is getting is the Silver States. There are currently 50 electric class drivers signed up and growing.

See you in my dust.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:11 AM   #1374
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I would be glad to get this happening. I dont want to start a turf war between the electric guys and the nitro guys. We all show up week in and week out to do the same thing, Race our toy cars and hang out with our buddies. Seperate class deal could be a possibility if the car counts go up. Right now we have people that are unhappy with how long the program is and adding more classes will further add to the total program. This is not a bad thing as I really enjoy being at the track and hanging with all of you. I do know that the cars can be regeared to go a longer distance and I am sure that Zac and all the "Brushless Revolution" Would be more than willing to make this happen. They are pretty cool dudes. We can hammer this stuff out at the meeting. I do feel that these are all valid points and I am not taking sides at all. These suggestions can make ARC the track we want it to be and get those car counts up. DRIVERS MEETING WILL TAKE PLACE AFTER PRACTICE AND BEFORE THE HEATS START, LISTEN FOR THE ANNOUNCEMENT, IF YOU DO NOT ATTEND YOU WILL BE DOCKED 13 LAPS IN YOUR MAIN.......HAHA SEE YOU GUYS LATER
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:13 AM   #1375
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At the Nitro Challenge there was NO advertising about an electric class. YOU were the one who asked us why we werent going! And based on this and other peoples observations, we felt welcome. Guess we were wrong.

Fact is that even Kevin Gahn from Losi didn't know that the Nitro Challenge was going to be open to electric. He had someone from Losi ship his car to him at the Pit. This is why there were only 9 buggys running. Because we were in AZ and no one but us and a few others knew what was going on.

Perfect example of how ridiculous this subject is getting is the Silver States. There are currently 50 electric class drivers signed up and growing.

See you in my dust.
Well i can respond to this by saying ,i guess you guys are all about electric and i personally have no problem with electric .But there are some electric guys you can count on to take you out in every other turn if you pass them ,for some apparent reason they forget about the brakes. If you were on sgrid on the Nitro Challenge thread ,there were many people asking for electric 1/8 class and this was the reason for the addition of the class. As far as Silver State that is awesome to see the class growing. I am also sure there will be a sperate class dedicated to electric. AS Far as me telling you about the nitro challenge i was trying to help you guys out ,lmk if you guys need anymore help advertising your company . You guys are always welcome to run with the gas i just don't like the mains to be cut short to accomidate your battery period . No need for tears ,your a grown man .
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:10 AM   #1376
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The mains are not cut short for the elec guys. The mains are at the length they are to get everyone out before midnight & keep the people that can do 15 min happy .Have you seen the start of sportsman buggy? When we have a low turn out & Dan bumps the mains up to 20-25 min the last 3-5 min look just like the first 1/2 lap. When Dan increases mains to 20 min the people that run elec run till their car stops & then pulls off the track I have yet to see tears from these grown men when that happens.They all look happy they got to run longer.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:42 AM   #1377
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IMO we should just start earlier.

Gates at 7, races at 10.

If low turn out then we go home before dark

If major turn out we go home at 10ish.

If JBRL can run 250 entries in one day I KNOW Dan can do it.
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:28 PM   #1378
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The mains are not cut short for the elec guys. The mains are at the length they are to get everyone out before midnight & keep the people that can do 15 min happy .Have you seen the start of sportsman buggy? When we have a low turn out & Dan bumps the mains up to 20-25 min the last 3-5 min look just like the first 1/2 lap. When Dan increases mains to 20 min the people that run elec run till their car stops & then pulls off the track I have yet to see tears from these grown men when that happens.They all look happy they got to run longer.
Yeah, there a few that are always in a hurry to get out of there. I find that a little odd.. Personally, on race days, I plan my day to be at the track. If I cant afford to spend the time, then I don't go (like today). I dont want to be the one complaining, and trying to talk the director into shorting up all the mains so "I" can get out in time. Long mains are for a few reasons... to have track time, test your ability to concentrate, and test your car. It's not just about being fast for a few laps. It separates those that may have lacked on preparation, etc. It's not easy to stay out there for 20+ minutes.

I agree that the different class levels should have different length mains. Sportsman is a HUGE class. Everything from beginner on up. The true beginner would probably not want to try a 25 minute main anyways, and honestly would probably not last that long. The upper level of sportsman would probably like to go for it, and that is when they should try to move up. It makes sense. I ran sportsman, now expert. I wish the mains were longer in expert, and if I thought I could hang with the Pros, I would do that, and test my other abilities at the same time, if those mains were longer.

I dont mind running with electrics. It would be cool if there were enough for them to have their own class. I would think they would want that too. Although some of the challenges are the same, there are some differences. If the mains are cut short due to that, then i guess that could be an issue. I have not heard of that being the reason.

I dont know, I just enjoy racing, and hanging at the track. Im not in a hurry when I go, so whatever works for the majority. If I dont like the way a program is ran, then there are other choices out there. I am sure I am welcome at any other track.

I wish I was racing today!!!
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:31 PM   #1379
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I had to run out & drop somthing off at the track & just got back.I see a solution for people doing 30mph up pit ramp has been instituted. Not the fix Dan said he was gonna do a long time ago(steel pipe over entrance) but it worked.You now can not physicaly hit the ramp over 10mph or so & stay on your wheels.The guy I saw come in hot hit those pipes & flipped/tumbled up the ramp & still hit a pit guy but I bet he wont do that a second time. It may take a few weeks for people to realize in the heat of the moment you must slow down but we can scratch one thing off the list while we see how it works.Kinda bummed I couldnt stay & see how the drivers meeting went though I'm sure I'll get filled in later.
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:45 PM   #1380
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Personally, I think the program has been running pretty smooth lately, Dan's got the routine down now. Getting the turn marshalls out sooner will help, and maybe setting a limit on how long we will wait for someone to fix/start/get their car going will help too. When someone asks for the one minute delay, when that minute is up, that's it, we go without you. I think that causes more delays than the turn marshall problems. Another thing, your turn marshall duty should be a priority over pitting your buddy. You either find someone to marshall for you, or your buddy finds someone else to pit hiim. I've never had any trouble finding a pit guy, you just gotta ask. People are usually more than willing to help pit.

I believe the race start time was changed to two hours earlier because of a Vail Lake Resort curfew, not because racers were complaining about getting out late, although there may have been some, I just never heard any. I don't remember what time the curfew was, but that would have to be taken into consideration. I'm all for a little more time on the track, I think that 7min quals and 20min "A" mains would be a good compromise until the electric guys had enough for their own class.

Have a great time racing guys, I'm not going to make it today.
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