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Old 09-16-2011, 03:12 PM   #151
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we should get some decent feedback after the weekend. ea's coming out to warm up with us, and we should have a moderately sized collection of some of the fastest guys around .... (running spec, of course. )

i have a feeling it just doesn't matter much. like mr. wishbone indicated, you reach a point of diminishing returns with gear, so the magic temp/fan issues really aren't what people make them out to be. i came off the track at 205* last weekend (no fan), and matched my hottest lap maybe a minute and half from finishing. (granted i should have come out harder, but that's not relevent to this).

so many folks think motor heat is the primary cause for the taper in lap times. while i only have ever run tc, i can't tell you that's not the bulk of it. it's due to both, drop in voltage, and tire heat/sauce degradation. even when we ran foam, resaucing after a run and going right back out with a 180* motor and a dead pack would drop the lap times right back into what the first few minutes yielded... until the tires crapped out again.

i've digressed, but the idea i'm trying to get across is that it's not as difficult or as critical as many choose to think. throw it in, gear it so that it doesn't melt down w/o a fan, and then add a fan to build a little more safety into your run. from there, you can continue to 'gear up', watching the temps go with it, and wonder why your lap times haven't changed.

good luck. like i said, i'm sure there'll be more nonsense speculation for us to post on sunday.

ps - why doesn't anyone do dyno pulls at temp? or even plot a curve of temp vs. output. in the grand scheme of things taking metal up 100* isn't that big of a change. Not when zero is ~500* less, and melting temp is ~1000* higher.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:18 PM   #152
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I've read advice from several professional motor tuners here that the RT motor can screws should be backed out, have some blue loctite applied, and reinstalled and torqued no tighter than just firmly seated. Sounds like there's a slight design issue, hopefully it'll be solved with succesive runs. Hate to see an otherwise well executed motor get a bad wrap for a simple flaw.

Seems to be fixing a lot of mystery RT motor issues.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:54 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by seaball View Post
we should get some decent feedback after the weekend. ea's coming out to warm up with us, and we should have a moderately sized collection of some of the fastest guys around .... (running spec, of course. )

i have a feeling it just doesn't matter much. like mr. wishbone indicated, you reach a point of diminishing returns with gear, so the magic temp/fan issues really aren't what people make them out to be. i came off the track at 205* last weekend (no fan), and matched my hottest lap maybe a minute and half from finishing. (granted i should have come out harder, but that's not relevent to this).

so many folks think motor heat is the primary cause for the taper in lap times. while i only have ever run tc, i can't tell you that's not the bulk of it. it's due to both, drop in voltage, and tire heat/sauce degradation. even when we ran foam, resaucing after a run and going right back out with a 180* motor and a dead pack would drop the lap times right back into what the first few minutes yielded... until the tires crapped out again.

i've digressed, but the idea i'm trying to get across is that it's not as difficult or as critical as many choose to think. throw it in, gear it so that it doesn't melt down w/o a fan, and then add a fan to build a little more safety into your run. from there, you can continue to 'gear up', watching the temps go with it, and wonder why your lap times haven't changed.

good luck. like i said, i'm sure there'll be more nonsense speculation for us to post on sunday.

ps - why doesn't anyone do dyno pulls at temp? or even plot a curve of temp vs. output. in the grand scheme of things taking metal up 100* isn't that big of a change. Not when zero is ~500* less, and melting temp is ~1000* higher.
Solder man, thats what life is all about, lol. Hey Chris, really miss the banter, you guys at the gate, and what you did to that cow........I really want to party with you.

Anyways I think the weak point of the motor is the stator to collector joint, perhaps one day the will weld them like old slot car motors. In any matter I haven't done the heat/power curve, but I have done rotors at temp to see if they degrade due to heat. Now the wife got a new oven so the testing has been slightly delayed. Apparently self cleaning ovens won't fully remove melted epoxy and the food kind of tastes and smells funny now, but I just blamed the kids.
Good luck this weekend and please post info when you get it.
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:02 AM   #154
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Went out with the new revtech motor today in 17.5 boosted and all went well, my son normally runs a duo 3 so we kept the settings pretty much the same but geared up a tooth and turn down the boost and turbo a bit then slowly worked our way back up, I must say the revtech ran alot cooler and had more top end speed than the duo plus it seemed to be smoother than the duo but that could also be because we had geared up a tooth, all in all the motor Performed well and will be getting another one when money allows.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:19 PM   #155
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What is the easiest way to remove the rear bearing in a Duo 3? Mine seized up for no apparent reason also what are the full dimensions to replace it? (inner/outer dia. and width)
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:16 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaball View Post
we should get some decent feedback after the weekend. ea's coming out to warm up with us, and we should have a moderately sized collection of some of the fastest guys around .... (running spec, of course. )
race report:

sydor might have had the most rip using a speedpassion mmm motor. the rest of the quickest motors of the weekend seemed to be d3's (in spec rubber). i ran both, and ran similarly with them (d3 @ 3.75, rt @ 4.29) all weekend, going back/forth. the rt motor is smoother, though, as it rolls into the power easier. could be beneficial to folks with a 'lead finger'. for this guy, i'll roll the d3 on account of it not being offensively ugly.

fyi - 90x40 carpet (which is probably why it almost doesn't matter what we ran).
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Last edited by seaball; 09-19-2011 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:29 AM   #157
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Anyone try the 12.3 High RPM rotor for 12th or WGT to see if it's faster then the broadband rotor?
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:10 AM   #158
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What is the easiest way to remove the rear bearing in a Duo 3? Mine seized up for no apparent reason also what are the full dimensions to replace it? (inner/outer dia. and width)
I got a D3 recently and I am curious as well if bearing seizure is common with the D3's? What is a good ceramic bearing to replace the stock ones and what is the size of the bearings? Help anyone
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:25 AM   #159
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It's horsham time and I need some 17.5's.
I have a new in the box d3 I bought last year and thinking about getting a revtech. Starting gearing around 4.2 for a good sized carpet track? 100x50
What esc do you use?

Talk to you soon.
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:40 AM   #160
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thinking about getting a revtech. Starting gearing around 4.2 for a good sized carpet track? 100x50
What esc do you use?
sounds reasonable to start. you'll probably end up nearer to 4.0 after a few runs. ea ran his down there out our place and was fine. actually burned his down trying to run it up at 4.3.

i use the castle mmp on whatever the spec profile is.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:45 AM   #161
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What is the easiest way to remove the rear bearing in a Duo 3? Mine seized up for no apparent reason also what are the full dimensions to replace it? (inner/outer dia. and width)
Get a bearing removal tool, I got one back in the day from one of the motor tuners.
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:53 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by seaball View Post
sounds reasonable to start. you'll probably end up nearer to 4.0 after a few runs. ea ran his down there out our place and was fine. actually burned his down trying to run it up at 4.3.

i use the castle mmp on whatever the spec profile is.
Any pics of your car posted anywhere Chris, I'd like to see some of the cars that where at the Gate race, you guys have some pretty nice stuff, and I'd love to see a S setup, if thats what you're running.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:13 PM   #163
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Any pics of your car posted anywhere Chris?
not that i know of. soon, though, maybe. i went through an esc at the race, so it's not looking too pretty at moment with factory wiring on the backup.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:18 PM   #164
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So I ran at ISTC Femca in Sydney on the weekend just gone and had no issues keeping up with everyone with the 28c packs in 17.5 boosted. Compared to my mates 60c packs which i was going to use there were no noticeable difference in power or punch through the 5 minute runs. On the big track the D3 was slightly faster but the Revtech ran cooler and i went with that as track temp was up to 45c with 30c air temps during qualifying.

Awesome bang for your buck.

And when i say big track i mean BIG track running the full back straight. The front straight is probably bigger than your main straights. I averaged low 22's in qualifying as the traction was higher than im used to and i struggled with that. I did 21.9 in practice and the top time for the event in stock was a 21.2 with an average of 21.7 for most of the a mainer's.

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Old 09-26-2011, 11:01 AM   #165
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Seaball, the 4.29 for the 17.5 Revtech is blinky or not? Getting ready for IIC and picked up one to try, usually run my Speedpassion at 3.5-3.6 the last few years and was shocked to see 4.29. Want to make sure I'm geared close.
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