trinity & BL (ahahahhahahhahha)
10-30-2003, 11:12 AM
#1
trinity & BL (ahahahhahahhahha)
what do you think of that, pretty funny...
Brushless Motor System Myths
These points below are in reaction to ads that have been run which we feel could be misleading to the customer about Brushless Motor Systems. In our opinion, this is a technology that is not all it is advertised to be.
Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.
Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.
Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.
No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.
Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.
Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.
Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
Brushless Motor System Myths
These points below are in reaction to ads that have been run which we feel could be misleading to the customer about Brushless Motor Systems. In our opinion, this is a technology that is not all it is advertised to be.
Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.
Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.
Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.
No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.
Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.
Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.
Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
10-30-2003, 02:16 PM
#2
Pardon my ignorance, but are you an owner or administrator of this BB?
If so, would you mind some thoughs on your points from someone with a very large amount of experience with brushless systems to further educate and inform the userbase about them?
Thanks,
Shawn Palmer
Castle Creations
If so, would you mind some thoughs on your points from someone with a very large amount of experience with brushless systems to further educate and inform the userbase about them?
Thanks,
Shawn Palmer
Castle Creations
10-30-2003, 02:22 PM
#3
he doesnt need to explain why but he actually hit on every negative about the brushless motor that everyone disclaims.
they only give you the plus side here you now hear the down side , i stick to my brushed motor thank you.
they only give you the plus side here you now hear the down side , i stick to my brushed motor thank you.
10-30-2003, 02:39 PM
#6
Ahh - ok, I was wondering where exactly the "we" came into it, and why it sounded so much like company rhetoric from a company without one of their own to offer......
Shawn
Shawn
10-30-2003, 03:34 PM
#7
by posting this "advertising" from Trinity's website, i was just wondering why a company were making such an annoucement, is BL becoming such a big threat for them, I just think it is not very subtile to make it "official".
It was not about Brushed VS BL..
my point of view on this subject is a little bit more divided...
It was not about Brushed VS BL..
my point of view on this subject is a little bit more divided...
10-30-2003, 03:44 PM
#8
Tech Adept
I'll stick with my Brushless system thanks... None of the above have come into play for me after 8 months of solid use....
10-30-2003, 03:49 PM
#9
It's very easy to see why they would make such an announcement:
1) They don't have a brushless system to sell, therefore are losing market share to a competitor that does.
2) Yet another opportunity to give a "black eye" to a competitor by calling them out for falsehoods/myths/outright lies.
The funny thing is - there are half-truths and outright false statements from Trinity in that as well - just showing you further how companies like to "shove it down your throat 'till you beleive it".
Shawn
1) They don't have a brushless system to sell, therefore are losing market share to a competitor that does.
2) Yet another opportunity to give a "black eye" to a competitor by calling them out for falsehoods/myths/outright lies.
The funny thing is - there are half-truths and outright false statements from Trinity in that as well - just showing you further how companies like to "shove it down your throat 'till you beleive it".
Shawn
10-30-2003, 03:55 PM
#10
Originally posted by Shawn Palmer
It's very easy to see why they would make such an announcement:
1) They don't have a brushless system to sell, therefore are losing market share to a competitor that does.
2) Yet another opportunity to give a "black eye" to a competitor by calling them out for falsehoods/myths/outright lies.
The funny thing is - there are half-truths and outright false statements from Trinity in that as well - just showing you further how companies like to "shove it down your throat 'till you beleive it".
Shawn
It's very easy to see why they would make such an announcement:
1) They don't have a brushless system to sell, therefore are losing market share to a competitor that does.
2) Yet another opportunity to give a "black eye" to a competitor by calling them out for falsehoods/myths/outright lies.
The funny thing is - there are half-truths and outright false statements from Trinity in that as well - just showing you further how companies like to "shove it down your throat 'till you beleive it".
Shawn
+ at this time BL is especially popular for bashing, brushed motors will remain a few years for racing application so there is still a big market for brushed motors.
10-31-2003, 04:14 AM
#11
Trinty should recall what mom once said: "If you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all."
Although i think nothing of brushless systems at this point and feel we are all just beta testers for backyard basher motor systems. I feel we will not see main stream racing take these systems as legal for a long time to come..... That is unless TRinity release there own version..................
They are sort of burning there bridges before they get to the water. ITs like LOSI saying RTR market is stupid and they will never do it. Well Losi a long time kit only company now does sell RTR and even started a new division within the company to handle it.
Obviously as a brush motor leader they do have something to fear. But im not sure why. They just need to throw out there version of a BL made by some other company with there Trinity sticker on it.
Although i think nothing of brushless systems at this point and feel we are all just beta testers for backyard basher motor systems. I feel we will not see main stream racing take these systems as legal for a long time to come..... That is unless TRinity release there own version..................
They are sort of burning there bridges before they get to the water. ITs like LOSI saying RTR market is stupid and they will never do it. Well Losi a long time kit only company now does sell RTR and even started a new division within the company to handle it.
Obviously as a brush motor leader they do have something to fear. But im not sure why. They just need to throw out there version of a BL made by some other company with there Trinity sticker on it.
10-31-2003, 07:34 AM
#12
The only point they make thats even half true is the batteries. They will ALWAYS matter. You're only as fast as your batteries. I had a Novak SS and it was incredible. No dirt could make it into that can. It's gearing range was awesome. If you needed more torque, gear down. Simple. The only reason I sold it was there wasn't a mod class for me to run it in. Racing application of BL motors is still a few years away. But it will come. A few companies can't dictate what racers want. They can only supply or die.
This is classic monopolist FUD. Like Microsoft saying Linux was more expensive to deploy.
This is classic monopolist FUD. Like Microsoft saying Linux was more expensive to deploy.
10-31-2003, 07:52 AM
#13
With a restricted setting such as the stock setting on a BL I thought the max RPM was set, so better cells would not make a difference?? Maybe slightly on acceleration but not top speed.
10-31-2003, 08:18 AM
#15
Yes there may be a limit on the ESC but on my motor it's 100.000 rpm.
Bateries matter of course and voltage is especially important.
Those motors are usually rated in rpm/Volt. The more volts you have the more it revs.
The gearign range on these motors is absurd. they have the power to drag a rock on the track.
When I tested mine I started with a 16 pinion and it was as fast in the straight as a 9 or 10. I ended with a 26 pinion and I tell you that I was as fast at the end of it as a 1/8 IC. The problem was the curve...
Dirt never got into it for the simple reason it's sealed. The bearing can withstand 1.000 hours before replacing and the ESC never got warm at all.
On a test with 3000 blue Pana I was able to run for 18 minutes. And it was the fastest thing I've ever tried in electrics.
Is it just my feeling or Trinity sounds more and more desperate about every little thing that competes with them?
Bateries matter of course and voltage is especially important.
Those motors are usually rated in rpm/Volt. The more volts you have the more it revs.
The gearign range on these motors is absurd. they have the power to drag a rock on the track.
When I tested mine I started with a 16 pinion and it was as fast in the straight as a 9 or 10. I ended with a 26 pinion and I tell you that I was as fast at the end of it as a 1/8 IC. The problem was the curve...
Dirt never got into it for the simple reason it's sealed. The bearing can withstand 1.000 hours before replacing and the ESC never got warm at all.
On a test with 3000 blue Pana I was able to run for 18 minutes. And it was the fastest thing I've ever tried in electrics.
Is it just my feeling or Trinity sounds more and more desperate about every little thing that competes with them?