Prediction for carpet racing 1/10 and 1/12 in coming years
#1
Prediction for carpet racing 1/10 and 1/12 in coming years
I started racing RC cars in 1983. Call it a hunch, but I really feel like there is going to be a (continued) resurgence in the popularity of 1/10 touring and 1/12th scale carpet racing in the coming years.
I base this on the fact that at some point, 1/10 buggy racers are going to realize that if they are having to purchase another complete purpose-built car to run 2WD and 4WD buggies indoors on carpet, why not just buy something that is cooler and faster like a 1/10 touring car or 1/12th scale car. Am I the only one who sees this?
I base this on the fact that at some point, 1/10 buggy racers are going to realize that if they are having to purchase another complete purpose-built car to run 2WD and 4WD buggies indoors on carpet, why not just buy something that is cooler and faster like a 1/10 touring car or 1/12th scale car. Am I the only one who sees this?
#2
I started in 1984, I hear you.Back then , having more than 1 or 2 cars was unheard of.
With more , and cheaper options than ever, almost everyone owns multiple cars for every local track/surface.
With more , and cheaper options than ever, almost everyone owns multiple cars for every local track/surface.
#3
Tech Lord
iTrader: (3)
I brought my first RC car in 1988 (RC-10), and started competitive RC racing in 1992, 12th scale.
What I have seen over the years that the popularity of any particular form of racing goes in cycles. On road will drop while off road gets more popular, then it switches. The changes cannot be linked to any particular event, it just happens. Off road has gone from loamy dirt, to hard packed clay, to now carpet and astroturf. (Off road carpet is an oxymoron)
The one thing you can count on is there is a strong but small base for every form of RC racing, so it will always be there. It just may not be on the level that we want.
What I have seen over the years that the popularity of any particular form of racing goes in cycles. On road will drop while off road gets more popular, then it switches. The changes cannot be linked to any particular event, it just happens. Off road has gone from loamy dirt, to hard packed clay, to now carpet and astroturf. (Off road carpet is an oxymoron)
The one thing you can count on is there is a strong but small base for every form of RC racing, so it will always be there. It just may not be on the level that we want.
#4
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
I'm genuinely annoyed that offroad has gone to high traction surfaces. But that's not the conversation here, is it?
The trend seems to be ever stickier surfaces, and ever higher traction chassis setups.
At some point, someone is going to get sick of seeing cars bicycle, and roll over, and will finally bring out a tire that is actually low traction.
The trend seems to be ever stickier surfaces, and ever higher traction chassis setups.
At some point, someone is going to get sick of seeing cars bicycle, and roll over, and will finally bring out a tire that is actually low traction.
#5
Tech Master
iTrader: (28)
I think that the biggest issue facing the hobby today is just too many frikking classes. I too started in 83 with 1/12 scale. There was no off road of any sort and no 1/10 at all. We all ran modified which at the time was a motor costing no more than $30 and a set of 1200MAH Sanyo batteries that couldn't cost more than $24. ROAR rules. All races were 8 minutes so if you couldn't make run time you put a smaller pinion on it until you could. Every six weeks we would change classes by putting on a different style body and everything was good. Today we have so many different motors and classes it is like attending a Corvette club autocross event. Everybody wins something.
If we could go to a deal where 25.5 was stock and everything else was modified there would be no more arguments about what motor should be allowed and which body to use on a left hand wound dodaddy for a nanny goat's back side on black or grey carpet above or below the equator. Will this type of thing work? Probably not. It's too simple and makes things equal for everybody. The top guys will be the same as always and the ones that can't drive a nail in the dirt will still complain that everybody that is faster than they are is cheating.
Work out these issues and the growth in the hobby will be staggering.
If we could go to a deal where 25.5 was stock and everything else was modified there would be no more arguments about what motor should be allowed and which body to use on a left hand wound dodaddy for a nanny goat's back side on black or grey carpet above or below the equator. Will this type of thing work? Probably not. It's too simple and makes things equal for everybody. The top guys will be the same as always and the ones that can't drive a nail in the dirt will still complain that everybody that is faster than they are is cheating.
Work out these issues and the growth in the hobby will be staggering.
#7
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
I see permanent facility carpet racing decreasing even further as cost of rent keeps climbing and the brick and mortar shops disappearing. Carpet clubs may still be sustainable in colder weather, where people must stay indoors in the winter, but perhaps there is a shift like in Europe where people set up carpet tracks in gyms and convention centers on weekends during "indoor season". Of course I don't think all tracks will disappear, but the model is fundamentally broken. Making rent on an indoor track is nearly impossible for a prolonged period of time. This is the biggest reason there is not any more indoor tracks than what we currently have.
Cost of RC is a big hindrance, but it is not due to the economy or the price of the items. it is the fact that there is so much more competition for people's disposable income and time today than what there was 25+ years ago. People want to do so much more today than before. Sim racing, real racing, mountain bikes, road bikes, motorcycles, boats, fishing, paint ball, the list is endless. It is much harder to compete today for people's dollars than before. This certainly cannot help.
In the future I see tracks that fall into the following categories: parking lots, on park lands, on private property, clubs with strong membership and reasonable rent (or temporary set ups), tracks that are subsidized by wealthy individuals or businesses. California, Washington and Texas are good examples of where the industry is going. We all need to pay attention to this, because realistically speaking the indoor track model "business" no longer works in the majority of markets across the country.
Cost of RC is a big hindrance, but it is not due to the economy or the price of the items. it is the fact that there is so much more competition for people's disposable income and time today than what there was 25+ years ago. People want to do so much more today than before. Sim racing, real racing, mountain bikes, road bikes, motorcycles, boats, fishing, paint ball, the list is endless. It is much harder to compete today for people's dollars than before. This certainly cannot help.
In the future I see tracks that fall into the following categories: parking lots, on park lands, on private property, clubs with strong membership and reasonable rent (or temporary set ups), tracks that are subsidized by wealthy individuals or businesses. California, Washington and Texas are good examples of where the industry is going. We all need to pay attention to this, because realistically speaking the indoor track model "business" no longer works in the majority of markets across the country.
#8
Tech Champion
iTrader: (377)
I started racing RC cars in 1983. Call it a hunch, but I really feel like there is going to be a (continued) resurgence in the popularity of 1/10 touring and 1/12th scale carpet racing in the coming years.
I base this on the fact that at some point, 1/10 buggy racers are going to realize that if they are having to purchase another complete purpose-built car to run 2WD and 4WD buggies indoors on carpet, why not just buy something that is cooler and faster like a 1/10 touring car or 1/12th scale car. Am I the only one who sees this?
I base this on the fact that at some point, 1/10 buggy racers are going to realize that if they are having to purchase another complete purpose-built car to run 2WD and 4WD buggies indoors on carpet, why not just buy something that is cooler and faster like a 1/10 touring car or 1/12th scale car. Am I the only one who sees this?
Last edited by peter george; 03-17-2017 at 03:42 PM.
#9
Tech Master
iTrader: (47)
I agree with everything Christian said. It's especially difficult to get kids involved now that they have things like video games that look damn-near real life and iPhones. Running an indoor track is just not sustainable unless there are special circumstances like Christian mentioned. We are lucky here in Spokane to have the little-bitty indoor tack we have and the only reason we have it is because the building was paid off many years ago.
It's pretty cheap rent here compared to many other places around the country, but when you consider "cheap" is $6 per square foot per year for a building in the industrial slums and you quickly realize an indoor track is simply not viable. A modest-sized carpet track of 80 ft. x 36 feet with driver's stand requires 3,000 square feet of space alone plus you need space for pitting. A 5,000 square foot building is $30,000 per year in rent and that's before the $7,000 you'll spend in timing equipment, carpet and track borders. Don't forget you need to turn the lights and heat on occasionally and you probably want some insurance. How many people, how often and and at what price per head makes that feasible? Don't forget to account for the fact that you will get about zero people in the door when the weather warms up because they will want to be outside racing off-road or boating or jet skiing or camping or going to the water park or... Try finding a 6-month lease on a commercial building that runs October through March.
The jumps are a bit tough on the touring and pan cars.
It's pretty cheap rent here compared to many other places around the country, but when you consider "cheap" is $6 per square foot per year for a building in the industrial slums and you quickly realize an indoor track is simply not viable. A modest-sized carpet track of 80 ft. x 36 feet with driver's stand requires 3,000 square feet of space alone plus you need space for pitting. A 5,000 square foot building is $30,000 per year in rent and that's before the $7,000 you'll spend in timing equipment, carpet and track borders. Don't forget you need to turn the lights and heat on occasionally and you probably want some insurance. How many people, how often and and at what price per head makes that feasible? Don't forget to account for the fact that you will get about zero people in the door when the weather warms up because they will want to be outside racing off-road or boating or jet skiing or camping or going to the water park or... Try finding a 6-month lease on a commercial building that runs October through March.
I started racing RC cars in 1983. Call it a hunch, but I really feel like there is going to be a (continued) resurgence in the popularity of 1/10 touring and 1/12th scale carpet racing in the coming years.
I base this on the fact that at some point, 1/10 buggy racers are going to realize that if they are having to purchase another complete purpose-built car to run 2WD and 4WD buggies indoors on carpet, why not just buy something that is cooler and faster like a 1/10 touring car or 1/12th scale car. Am I the only one who sees this?
I base this on the fact that at some point, 1/10 buggy racers are going to realize that if they are having to purchase another complete purpose-built car to run 2WD and 4WD buggies indoors on carpet, why not just buy something that is cooler and faster like a 1/10 touring car or 1/12th scale car. Am I the only one who sees this?
#11
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
The below isn't a cohesive thought, just a few ideas crumpled together.
How racing is done in the future isn't really as important as who is racing in the future.
When internet speeds improve to eliminate lag, everything that is done racing a real car can be done on-line. VRC Pro and gaming systems already do this now.
To have a viable business/activity, one must replace us old guys with fresh blood.
In the China area I live, tracks are subsidized and sometimes regulated by friendly government agencies. For example, last year's On Road Worlds were organized by the Chinese government, not a private club.
Because of the basic educational system here, you must enroll your kids in after school activities; some sponsored by the government, some private companies. They teach piano, rock climbing, etc. People I know have found corporate sponsors and held educational racing clubs for kids in and out of the school system.
Depending on age, there are opportunities to teach geometry, dynamics, electricity, painting, vacuum forming, mechanical engineering, manufacturing, etc. With all those teaching computer sub-systems like Solid Works, Excel, AutoCAD, finite modeling, etc.
I really see an opportunity in the near future to replace the present old man racing model with something more educational, emphasizing the STEM subjects for teenagers to learn and compete.
How racing is done in the future isn't really as important as who is racing in the future.
When internet speeds improve to eliminate lag, everything that is done racing a real car can be done on-line. VRC Pro and gaming systems already do this now.
To have a viable business/activity, one must replace us old guys with fresh blood.
In the China area I live, tracks are subsidized and sometimes regulated by friendly government agencies. For example, last year's On Road Worlds were organized by the Chinese government, not a private club.
Because of the basic educational system here, you must enroll your kids in after school activities; some sponsored by the government, some private companies. They teach piano, rock climbing, etc. People I know have found corporate sponsors and held educational racing clubs for kids in and out of the school system.
Depending on age, there are opportunities to teach geometry, dynamics, electricity, painting, vacuum forming, mechanical engineering, manufacturing, etc. With all those teaching computer sub-systems like Solid Works, Excel, AutoCAD, finite modeling, etc.
I really see an opportunity in the near future to replace the present old man racing model with something more educational, emphasizing the STEM subjects for teenagers to learn and compete.
#12
Suspended
I think it will grow as long as old racers continue to bring out their kids and show them the fun and learning that can be had with racing. Certain areas are just not feasible to have a track, and that is why the tracks are popping up outside of the cities. I feel very fortunate to have a local carpet track that is located in the city and open 24/7 for members.
Support your local shops, and you will see the track population grow.
Support your local shops, and you will see the track population grow.
#13
Tech Regular
I don't think the companies who make on-road kits really want it to get big again. That's why a race quality sedan kit that could run in a local A-main or a national D-main costs $500 and a 2wd buggy of the same caliber is under $250 with an aluminium chassis.
I love 1/12 scale, but it will die soon without new blood that want to buy a $250 tire truer and spend $50 a month on tires, yet F1 rubber tires on WGTR have ruined the driving character of the cars. Pushing some random rubber tire from an 1/18 scale car into the 1/12th racing would kill the class dead in a week. A completely new rim and tire would have to be designed, tested, re-designed and re-tested then pushed on a rubber hating majority. I don't know the answer, but these are the challenges.
I have often wondered about a large version of the silicone tires I used to run on AFX/Tyco slot cars that would slide onto the stock BSR or CRC rims.
I'm sure the cost of carpet being double affects the track owners as well.
I love 1/12 scale, but it will die soon without new blood that want to buy a $250 tire truer and spend $50 a month on tires, yet F1 rubber tires on WGTR have ruined the driving character of the cars. Pushing some random rubber tire from an 1/18 scale car into the 1/12th racing would kill the class dead in a week. A completely new rim and tire would have to be designed, tested, re-designed and re-tested then pushed on a rubber hating majority. I don't know the answer, but these are the challenges.
I have often wondered about a large version of the silicone tires I used to run on AFX/Tyco slot cars that would slide onto the stock BSR or CRC rims.
I'm sure the cost of carpet being double affects the track owners as well.
#14
I don't think the companies who make on-road kits really want it to get big again. That's why a race quality sedan kit that could run in a local A-main or a national D-main costs $500 and a 2wd buggy of the same caliber is under $250 with an aluminium chassis.
I love 1/12 scale, but it will die soon without new blood that want to buy a $250 tire truer and spend $50 a month on tires, yet F1 rubber tires on WGTR have ruined the driving character of the cars. Pushing some random rubber tire from an 1/18 scale car into the 1/12th racing would kill the class dead in a week. A completely new rim and tire would have to be designed, tested, re-designed and re-tested then pushed on a rubber hating majority. I don't know the answer, but these are the challenges.
I have often wondered about a large version of the silicone tires I used to run on AFX/Tyco slot cars that would slide onto the stock BSR or CRC rims.
I'm sure the cost of carpet being double affects the track owners as well.
I love 1/12 scale, but it will die soon without new blood that want to buy a $250 tire truer and spend $50 a month on tires, yet F1 rubber tires on WGTR have ruined the driving character of the cars. Pushing some random rubber tire from an 1/18 scale car into the 1/12th racing would kill the class dead in a week. A completely new rim and tire would have to be designed, tested, re-designed and re-tested then pushed on a rubber hating majority. I don't know the answer, but these are the challenges.
I have often wondered about a large version of the silicone tires I used to run on AFX/Tyco slot cars that would slide onto the stock BSR or CRC rims.
I'm sure the cost of carpet being double affects the track owners as well.
But back to the topic at hand I have to agree with what Cristian said it is almost impossible for an indoor track to survive in the current conditions. With the wide array of options which are available and competing for our disposable income, and the lack of new fresh faces at the tracks it's clear that the RC hobby (on-road in particular) faces some daunting challenges. The best thing we can do is set a good example and do our best to inform and have fun while we still have the option to do so.
#15
Tech Master
iTrader: (6)
Two things have remained constant for nearly 30 years. #1 - it has always been an expensive proposition to own and operate an indoor carpet facility. #2 - there always seem to be a handful of folks scattered about the country with the necessary levels of passion, desire, and creativity that are required to meet the challenges of being a carpet track operator. I just thank my lucky stars that there have been (and continue to be) a few carpet venues available to me in the mid-Atlantic region. Don't know what I'd do if I didn't get the chance to scratch my carpet itch on a regular basis.