Team Orion GP4300
#76
Tech Fanatic
Hi Ernie, it's Peter - IFMAR, you remember!!
I see that the problems we had then are the problems we have now!! Just to set the record straight on this one, the product can be BRCA and EFRA approved because there is no requirement for product availability, as in IFMAR. I am not saying that makes sense, just that those are the requirements for approval.
So that everyone else is aware, these batteries may be approved, but they are not allowed for use in BRCA/EFRA events until 1 April 2006. This is to allow all the distribution network to get stock available for the racers. It also allows the racers to know what cells are approved for the next 12 months, so they don't go and buy cells and then find a better product is released a few weeks later.
Hope that clears things up a bit - even if it won't satisfy Ernie (ha ha!)
I see that the problems we had then are the problems we have now!! Just to set the record straight on this one, the product can be BRCA and EFRA approved because there is no requirement for product availability, as in IFMAR. I am not saying that makes sense, just that those are the requirements for approval.
So that everyone else is aware, these batteries may be approved, but they are not allowed for use in BRCA/EFRA events until 1 April 2006. This is to allow all the distribution network to get stock available for the racers. It also allows the racers to know what cells are approved for the next 12 months, so they don't go and buy cells and then find a better product is released a few weeks later.
Hope that clears things up a bit - even if it won't satisfy Ernie (ha ha!)
#77
Tech Adept
Peter...
Great to hear from you....and the clarification. I guess I should be part "Brit" since NO this does not clear things up for me or satisfy me" since it does not make sense....lol
Glad you are still involved....when am I going to get to see you again?
All the Best..E
Great to hear from you....and the clarification. I guess I should be part "Brit" since NO this does not clear things up for me or satisfy me" since it does not make sense....lol
Glad you are still involved....when am I going to get to see you again?
All the Best..E
#78
Tech Adept
fjm9898....
Thanks for the explanation on the "inner workings" of IB and GP and how they have to produce cells in advance etc etc.
I think (?) could be wrong as usual (lol) that the cell legality issue has to be 100,000pcs....at least this is what it used to be in ROAR a few years back...not sure about IFMAR and from Peter says...EFRA needs no samples...lol. The Brits (English Federation of Racers Association....lol) seem to have it right...they have simplified everything....
For those that do not know....I AM JOKING.....
Thanks for the explanation on the "inner workings" of IB and GP and how they have to produce cells in advance etc etc.
I think (?) could be wrong as usual (lol) that the cell legality issue has to be 100,000pcs....at least this is what it used to be in ROAR a few years back...not sure about IFMAR and from Peter says...EFRA needs no samples...lol. The Brits (English Federation of Racers Association....lol) seem to have it right...they have simplified everything....
For those that do not know....I AM JOKING.....
#79
Tech Fanatic
Ernie,
We both know it doesn't make total sense, but it's all we have... LOL!!
If you're coming over here anytime, just let me know and we'll meet up. I'm not due to come to the US anytime soon, so unless you would like a week in the Canary Islands for the Europen 12th Championships, I might see you in Italy for the IFMAR World Champs.
Just bought a Black Widow, and am driving for Helger - cool car!
I hope all is well with you and yours, and if you PM me I'll give you my e-mail address and we can catch up on old times!!
Sorry to hijack the thread guys!
Peter
We both know it doesn't make total sense, but it's all we have... LOL!!
If you're coming over here anytime, just let me know and we'll meet up. I'm not due to come to the US anytime soon, so unless you would like a week in the Canary Islands for the Europen 12th Championships, I might see you in Italy for the IFMAR World Champs.
Just bought a Black Widow, and am driving for Helger - cool car!
I hope all is well with you and yours, and if you PM me I'll give you my e-mail address and we can catch up on old times!!
Sorry to hijack the thread guys!
Peter
#80
Shop Owner
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by ErnieP
Of course...I think it is astounding that a product can gain EFRA legality...or legality for any organization when it has not even been released to the market yet.....
If there are no parameters for EFRA.....to test anything...then WHY HAVE ANY RULES? MAKE EVERYTHING LEGAL!
If there are no parameters for EFRA.....to test anything...then WHY HAVE ANY RULES? MAKE EVERYTHING LEGAL!
So, please have all the facts before you go after someone
Nick
Last edited by nnick; 10-25-2008 at 11:06 AM.
#81
Tech Fanatic
NNick,
Sorry, you are not correct. The last paragraph says that they measured them, not that they tested them. This means they check the dimensions in accordance with the EFRA rules, not that they test them by doing any charging, discharging or other testing of their performance.
This is what ErnieP means - if you simply approve cells on a dimension, you have no idea what is in them. And if the cells sent for approval are not the production cells, then what is the approval worth? I might not always agree with Ernie, but he does have a point!
Sorry, you are not correct. The last paragraph says that they measured them, not that they tested them. This means they check the dimensions in accordance with the EFRA rules, not that they test them by doing any charging, discharging or other testing of their performance.
This is what ErnieP means - if you simply approve cells on a dimension, you have no idea what is in them. And if the cells sent for approval are not the production cells, then what is the approval worth? I might not always agree with Ernie, but he does have a point!
#82
Originally Posted by SlowerOne
NNick,
Sorry, you are not correct. The last paragraph says that they measured them, not that they tested them. This means they check the dimensions in accordance with the EFRA rules, not that they test them by doing any charging, discharging or other testing of their performance.
This is what ErnieP means - if you simply approve cells on a dimension, you have no idea what is in them. And if the cells sent for approval are not the production cells, then what is the approval worth? I might not always agree with Ernie, but he does have a point!
Sorry, you are not correct. The last paragraph says that they measured them, not that they tested them. This means they check the dimensions in accordance with the EFRA rules, not that they test them by doing any charging, discharging or other testing of their performance.
This is what ErnieP means - if you simply approve cells on a dimension, you have no idea what is in them. And if the cells sent for approval are not the production cells, then what is the approval worth? I might not always agree with Ernie, but he does have a point!
#84
Tech Adept
Rick?
Rick...I know this is not your quote or your feeling but this has to be the "quote of the century"......
It does not matter what is in them. As long as it is 1.2V, sub-c that meets dimensional requirements, it will be legalized.
I thought we had issues in ROAR....
It does not matter what is in them. As long as it is 1.2V, sub-c that meets dimensional requirements, it will be legalized.
I thought we had issues in ROAR....
#85
Tech Master
New for EFRA is that there are two windows per year now for approval.
#86
Tech Adept
Anders...why do they need "windows" or "time set aside for approvals" if everything is basically legal?
#87
Originally Posted by ErnieP
Rick...I know this is not your quote or your feeling but this has to be the "quote of the century"......
It does not matter what is in them. As long as it is 1.2V, sub-c that meets dimensional requirements, it will be legalized.
I thought we had issues in ROAR....
It does not matter what is in them. As long as it is 1.2V, sub-c that meets dimensional requirements, it will be legalized.
I thought we had issues in ROAR....
A pack could contain six miniature nuclear reactors and as long as they meet the size requirements they can be approved (ROAR).
#88
Tech Master
Originally Posted by ErnieP
Anders...why do they need "windows" or "time set aside for approvals" if everything is basically legal?
#89
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
I guess to avoid having new cells coming out the day before a race.
#90
I wonder if we can get the two active GP4300 threads merged or something? The discussions in both are kind of at the same point right now (ROAR vs BRCA/EFRA) anyway... any moderators reading this?
Anyway, earlier in the thread some folks were complaining about TO coming out with new cells already, and 'needing' new cells, etc. - TO and Trinity don't make the things, racers and bashers demand more runtime so IB and GP respond. If you don't plan to pick these cells up, well you have TO and Trinity top dawgs here, reading and replying! I wouldn't be surprised to see 4200/4300 stick packs be announced in the next few weeks, for all the E-Zilla/E-Maxx/boat owners out there.
I think the BRCA/EFRA battery application time (1 Jan. and 1 Aug. IIRC) is a great idea, between the two racing seasons and it tells racers 'no new cells will be available until THIS date', etc.
Anyway, earlier in the thread some folks were complaining about TO coming out with new cells already, and 'needing' new cells, etc. - TO and Trinity don't make the things, racers and bashers demand more runtime so IB and GP respond. If you don't plan to pick these cells up, well you have TO and Trinity top dawgs here, reading and replying! I wouldn't be surprised to see 4200/4300 stick packs be announced in the next few weeks, for all the E-Zilla/E-Maxx/boat owners out there.
I think the BRCA/EFRA battery application time (1 Jan. and 1 Aug. IIRC) is a great idea, between the two racing seasons and it tells racers 'no new cells will be available until THIS date', etc.