3700's or 3800's
10-03-2005, 12:23 AM
#196
I have read pages about GP3700s and IB3800 and the pros and cons of each.
I have spent hours discussing the same subject with other enthusisats all over the world.
Finally I got some good quality IB3800s to complement my GP3700s and have been able to do some unbiased back to back tests of my own.
The car used is a TC4 BMI. Speedo Novak GTX. Motors Checkpoint 7 x 1. The driver is the local champion - 7 times - so he knows the car and the track well enough to be consistant. No modifications were made to car, motors or gearing.
Cells used were top brand GP3700s and fresh and recent top brand IB3800s. Both brands win regularly in International races, and I know that both brands supply me with good products, so we are talking about the best of both.The 3700s have had 12 runs on them and the 3800s were brand new.
Here are the results of 3 five minute runs, all run under the same conditions. All 3 runs were timed with the same Orion Pro Lap counter.
RUN 1. GP3700. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race Average 16.03.
RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.
RUN 3. GP3700. CS22s on 2nd run. Fresh motor. Race time 19 laps in 309. Best lap 15.40. Race average 16.27.
Runs 1 and 2 were faultless, but Run 3 had a couple of mistakes in the first couple of laps, lap 1 in 17 and lap 2 in 19, with the fastest 15.4 coming on lap 5 so performance was pretty much the same if you take that into consideration.
So what are the conclusions so far.
Basically, there is nothing in it. A closer look at the lap times will show the IB to be very quick in the first 2 minutes then loose about half a second a lap for the remaining 3 minutes, finishing very strongly. The GP never seems to have the outright blast of the IB over the first couple of laps but remains much more consistant till about 2 laps from the end, when it starts to drop off a bit.
So what are we going to use. Your guess is as good as mine.
All I have proved so far is that all the praisers of GP over IB, and vice versa, are doing so for their own personal business reasons. Both cells are equally brilliant.
Oh by the way, on my Pro Trak the IBs seemed better, but it was not the case on the track as the lap times showed.
Anyone else been doing any UNBIASED testing ?
I have spent hours discussing the same subject with other enthusisats all over the world.
Finally I got some good quality IB3800s to complement my GP3700s and have been able to do some unbiased back to back tests of my own.
The car used is a TC4 BMI. Speedo Novak GTX. Motors Checkpoint 7 x 1. The driver is the local champion - 7 times - so he knows the car and the track well enough to be consistant. No modifications were made to car, motors or gearing.
Cells used were top brand GP3700s and fresh and recent top brand IB3800s. Both brands win regularly in International races, and I know that both brands supply me with good products, so we are talking about the best of both.The 3700s have had 12 runs on them and the 3800s were brand new.
Here are the results of 3 five minute runs, all run under the same conditions. All 3 runs were timed with the same Orion Pro Lap counter.
RUN 1. GP3700. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race Average 16.03.
RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.
RUN 3. GP3700. CS22s on 2nd run. Fresh motor. Race time 19 laps in 309. Best lap 15.40. Race average 16.27.
Runs 1 and 2 were faultless, but Run 3 had a couple of mistakes in the first couple of laps, lap 1 in 17 and lap 2 in 19, with the fastest 15.4 coming on lap 5 so performance was pretty much the same if you take that into consideration.
So what are the conclusions so far.
Basically, there is nothing in it. A closer look at the lap times will show the IB to be very quick in the first 2 minutes then loose about half a second a lap for the remaining 3 minutes, finishing very strongly. The GP never seems to have the outright blast of the IB over the first couple of laps but remains much more consistant till about 2 laps from the end, when it starts to drop off a bit.
So what are we going to use. Your guess is as good as mine.
All I have proved so far is that all the praisers of GP over IB, and vice versa, are doing so for their own personal business reasons. Both cells are equally brilliant.
Oh by the way, on my Pro Trak the IBs seemed better, but it was not the case on the track as the lap times showed.
Anyone else been doing any UNBIASED testing ?
10-03-2005, 01:14 AM
#197
Tech Master
Originally Posted by johnbull
RUN 1. GP3700. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race Average 16.03.
RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.
RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.
Just kidding.
Ityīs great that there are at least two different brands, so we have a healthy competition for furter development and lower prices.
I very much like to add that you need to know that this kind of comperison is not the perfect one either, as you have to know how to set up the motors for the different batteries.
Our ( Andreas and Joels that is.. ) experiance is that with IB cells, we can increase speed with higher wind, compare to GPīs.
10-03-2005, 01:19 AM
#198
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
That's funny... Orion has just released IB 3800's here in the US. We haven't had a batch that false peaked in over two months. The voltage numbers we are seeing are off the charts. Sales are through the roof. Repeat customers order more each time. Consumers are thrilled. Shucks, I guess we Americans are just plain dumb. Oh well, maybe some day we will wise up.
10-03-2005, 01:53 AM
#199
Tech Adept
Originally Posted by johnbull
I have read pages about GP3700s and IB3800 and the pros and cons of each.
I have spent hours discussing the same subject with other enthusisats all over the world.
Finally I got some good quality IB3800s to complement my GP3700s and have been able to do some unbiased back to back tests of my own.
The car used is a TC4 BMI. Speedo Novak GTX. Motors Checkpoint 7 x 1. The driver is the local champion - 7 times - so he knows the car and the track well enough to be consistant. No modifications were made to car, motors or gearing.
Cells used were top brand GP3700s and fresh and recent top brand IB3800s. Both brands win regularly in International races, and I know that both brands supply me with good products, so we are talking about the best of both.The 3700s have had 12 runs on them and the 3800s were brand new.
Here are the results of 3 five minute runs, all run under the same conditions. All 3 runs were timed with the same Orion Pro Lap counter.
RUN 1. GP3700. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race Average 16.03.
RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.
RUN 3. GP3700. CS22s on 2nd run. Fresh motor. Race time 19 laps in 309. Best lap 15.40. Race average 16.27.
Runs 1 and 2 were faultless, but Run 3 had a couple of mistakes in the first couple of laps, lap 1 in 17 and lap 2 in 19, with the fastest 15.4 coming on lap 5 so performance was pretty much the same if you take that into consideration.
So what are the conclusions so far.
Basically, there is nothing in it. A closer look at the lap times will show the IB to be very quick in the first 2 minutes then loose about half a second a lap for the remaining 3 minutes, finishing very strongly. The GP never seems to have the outright blast of the IB over the first couple of laps but remains much more consistant till about 2 laps from the end, when it starts to drop off a bit.
So what are we going to use. Your guess is as good as mine.
All I have proved so far is that all the praisers of GP over IB, and vice versa, are doing so for their own personal business reasons. Both cells are equally brilliant.
Oh by the way, on my Pro Trak the IBs seemed better, but it was not the case on the track as the lap times showed.
Anyone else been doing any UNBIASED testing ?
I have spent hours discussing the same subject with other enthusisats all over the world.
Finally I got some good quality IB3800s to complement my GP3700s and have been able to do some unbiased back to back tests of my own.
The car used is a TC4 BMI. Speedo Novak GTX. Motors Checkpoint 7 x 1. The driver is the local champion - 7 times - so he knows the car and the track well enough to be consistant. No modifications were made to car, motors or gearing.
Cells used were top brand GP3700s and fresh and recent top brand IB3800s. Both brands win regularly in International races, and I know that both brands supply me with good products, so we are talking about the best of both.The 3700s have had 12 runs on them and the 3800s were brand new.
Here are the results of 3 five minute runs, all run under the same conditions. All 3 runs were timed with the same Orion Pro Lap counter.
RUN 1. GP3700. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race Average 16.03.
RUN 2. IB3800. Fresh motor and new Take Off 22s. Race time 19 laps in 304. Best lap 15.37. Race average 16.02.
RUN 3. GP3700. CS22s on 2nd run. Fresh motor. Race time 19 laps in 309. Best lap 15.40. Race average 16.27.
Runs 1 and 2 were faultless, but Run 3 had a couple of mistakes in the first couple of laps, lap 1 in 17 and lap 2 in 19, with the fastest 15.4 coming on lap 5 so performance was pretty much the same if you take that into consideration.
So what are the conclusions so far.
Basically, there is nothing in it. A closer look at the lap times will show the IB to be very quick in the first 2 minutes then loose about half a second a lap for the remaining 3 minutes, finishing very strongly. The GP never seems to have the outright blast of the IB over the first couple of laps but remains much more consistant till about 2 laps from the end, when it starts to drop off a bit.
So what are we going to use. Your guess is as good as mine.
All I have proved so far is that all the praisers of GP over IB, and vice versa, are doing so for their own personal business reasons. Both cells are equally brilliant.
Oh by the way, on my Pro Trak the IBs seemed better, but it was not the case on the track as the lap times showed.
Anyone else been doing any UNBIASED testing ?
We have been running the 2nd generation and have found that they dont drop off after 2mins like the 1st generation did.Also we have found them to have better performance on the track than the GP3700.
10-03-2005, 02:43 AM
#200
Originally Posted by Nick Simpson
Were your IB3800 the 2nd generation or 1st?
We have been running the 2nd generation and have found that they dont drop off after 2mins like the 1st generation did.Also we have found them to have better performance on the track than the GP3700.
We have been running the 2nd generation and have found that they dont drop off after 2mins like the 1st generation did.Also we have found them to have better performance on the track than the GP3700.
Anders, if I understand you correctly does this mean you would run an 8 turn motor with IBs and a 7 with GPs, for example ?
10-03-2005, 03:44 AM
#201
Tech Master
Originally Posted by johnbull
They were sold to me as 2nd gen and I have no reason to doubt my supplier.
Anders, if I understand you correctly does this mean you would run an 8 turn motor with IBs and a 7 with GPs, for example ?
Anders, if I understand you correctly does this mean you would run an 8 turn motor with IBs and a 7 with GPs, for example ?
Thatīs correct.
They used 8 turn i Rubber and have 580 mAh left, and 9 turn i Modified and have 700 mAh left.
10-03-2005, 06:05 AM
#202
That's very interesting, thanks.
We have run 8 x 1 with the GP3700 and have been almost just as quick as with 7 x 1 - best lap with 7 x 1 = 15.4, best lap with 8 x 1 = 15.5 but with plenty left and faster last few laps.
We have run 8 x 1 with the GP3700 and have been almost just as quick as with 7 x 1 - best lap with 7 x 1 = 15.4, best lap with 8 x 1 = 15.5 but with plenty left and faster last few laps.
10-03-2005, 06:11 AM
#203
I can tell you that from my limited experience in running the 3800's in stock and 19T that I had similar results. They feel balls to the wall for the first few minutes and then level out. I would not say they fall off though. My 3700's feel the same from the time I flick the switch to the end. In the end my lap times are probably better with the 3700's only because I am not as good on the wheel to take advantage of that extra juice in the beginning. That being said, I do plan on running both cells this winter.
10-03-2005, 06:28 AM
#204
Batts compaired
I have conducted independant test using different methods with both cells.
We have just completed our second race weekend in our series and should be able to gather great data on our test packs.
I can tell you this.
In our 4 IB packs, the batteries peaked at a higher voltage and more mAh.
From the driver's reports they said the packs did feel more "punchy".
I know personally, I took the worst 2 packs of each.
Cycled them and made sure every cell was good. (they both got resoldered)
With the GP I set TQ on a fresh motor with a perfect run.
On the IB I hit a bump in the first lap and put myself on the board and hung there for over 8 seconds. I ran the leader down and passed to pull away.
This run beat the TQ by 10 seconds!
I used the same motor without touching it or the car as a whole.
This week will feature the use of a West Mountain Radio CBA.
I will chart each cell individually of all of our packs. (no hiding anything here!)
I will post results by the end of the week for your review.
TEX
We have just completed our second race weekend in our series and should be able to gather great data on our test packs.
I can tell you this.
In our 4 IB packs, the batteries peaked at a higher voltage and more mAh.
From the driver's reports they said the packs did feel more "punchy".
I know personally, I took the worst 2 packs of each.
Cycled them and made sure every cell was good. (they both got resoldered)
With the GP I set TQ on a fresh motor with a perfect run.
On the IB I hit a bump in the first lap and put myself on the board and hung there for over 8 seconds. I ran the leader down and passed to pull away.
This run beat the TQ by 10 seconds!
I used the same motor without touching it or the car as a whole.
This week will feature the use of a West Mountain Radio CBA.
I will chart each cell individually of all of our packs. (no hiding anything here!)
I will post results by the end of the week for your review.
TEX
10-03-2005, 06:41 AM
#205
Tech Fanatic
Originally Posted by stefan
After this particular posting, I wouldn't get my hopes up too much for at least yourselves, Mr.Jaco!
10-03-2005, 07:04 AM
#206
Jack:
Isn't it amazing that anyone can spend $700 on a TurboMatcher and instantly become a battery authority?
Welcome to my (former) world!
Sheesh.
Isn't it amazing that anyone can spend $700 on a TurboMatcher and instantly become a battery authority?
Welcome to my (former) world!
Sheesh.
10-03-2005, 07:33 AM
#207
Tech Master
Originally Posted by McSmooth
Jack:
Isn't it amazing that anyone can spend $700 on a TurboMatcher and instantly become a battery authority?
Welcome to my (former) world!
Sheesh.
Isn't it amazing that anyone can spend $700 on a TurboMatcher and instantly become a battery authority?
Welcome to my (former) world!
Sheesh.
Thatīs possible!
10-03-2005, 07:45 AM
#208
My post wasn't an attack on Jack. We've been friends for quite a long time. Just want to be sure that's understood.
It was directed at any other fly-by-night battery 'experts'.
Such as....the ability to put 6 cells into spring-loaded holders and pushing a button does not equal knowledge.
It was directed at any other fly-by-night battery 'experts'.
Such as....the ability to put 6 cells into spring-loaded holders and pushing a button does not equal knowledge.
10-03-2005, 08:14 AM
#209
Tech Regular
won the a this weekend in 4 cell stock at our local track using smc ibs my fusion 3700 s tqed in my friends car thease were the 1st run on them i was impressed also glad to see fusion will be doing the cell now i will learn to re do my motor tuning to work with this cell ohms law voltage is king and the ib has it!!!! gp listen up theres a new sherrif in town!
10-03-2005, 08:59 AM
#210
Turbomatchers only cost $550 and hold only 4 cells..... 
Later EddieO
Later EddieO