RCHSR: Radio Controlled Historic Sportscar Racing
10-04-2013, 06:22 PM
#151
Thanks to Dino in another post above for your comments.
Scott, I would say this in regards to your five points:
1. Separate, keep WGTP at 200 and the 235mm a class of its own.
2. I say go with 1s, same as used in 1/12 and 1/10 WGT.
3. I'd go with open foams-keep the tech situation simple.
4. Yes, let's do that. We can post pictures of the bodies and we'll discuss their merits and why or why not they should be legal.
5. Not sure, never raced a new style Lipo/brushless SC, but I do know they run blinky in 1/12 and WGT, as well as some others. So I'm leaning towards blinky.
Those are my thoughts on those points-I will not hand out any edicts until my "decider" status is made official....LOL
Scott, I would say this in regards to your five points:
1. Separate, keep WGTP at 200 and the 235mm a class of its own.
2. I say go with 1s, same as used in 1/12 and 1/10 WGT.
3. I'd go with open foams-keep the tech situation simple.
4. Yes, let's do that. We can post pictures of the bodies and we'll discuss their merits and why or why not they should be legal.
5. Not sure, never raced a new style Lipo/brushless SC, but I do know they run blinky in 1/12 and WGT, as well as some others. So I'm leaning towards blinky.
Those are my thoughts on those points-I will not hand out any edicts until my "decider" status is made official....LOL
I have updated my post of suggested rules to reflect the information above:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/12571732-post65.html
10-04-2013, 07:25 PM
#153
Ed,
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.
I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).
I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.
I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).
I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
10-05-2013, 06:06 AM
#154
Ed,
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.
I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).
I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.
I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).
I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
I have suggested 2.25" as a minimum tire diameter.
10-05-2013, 06:57 AM
#155
Tech Master
The Protoform Mulsanne is their old Porsche GT1 body, rebadged as the Mulsanne with new headlight stickers means they don't have to deal with Porsche licensing, especially considering when they first released it they had to split up the Porsche name on the sticker sheet to avoid copyright issues back then.
10-05-2013, 07:54 AM
#156
Ed,
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.
I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).
I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.
I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).
I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
All the bodies you've listed are ok with me except for the RJSpeed 962. Not to pick on any particular body maker, but that 962 to me is the proverbial poster child for what a WGTP legal body should not be: poor scale accuracy and the wedge type rear end. I can accept a wedge rear end if the rest of the car is accurately modeled so on some bodies it's a judgement call.
As far as tires go, I too think those really low profile foam tires look terrible. The problem is that foam tires are very expensive and I hate to have to tell anyone that they can't get as much use out of their tires as they want. I've seen some WGT front tires that look like a bare wheel with a section of bicycle tire inner-tube stretched over it! And since some wheels might have a different diameter, maybe we can say instead that you need at least 2mm of front tire thickness and 3mm for the rears.
In regards to the PF Mulsanne, most of us know why they can't call it a Porsche 911GT1-98-licensing fees. So I have no problems with a body like that so long as it represents an original model accurately.
10-05-2013, 08:45 AM
#157
Originally I named this class RCHSR to mimic the full size Historic Sportscar Racing series. This was so that GTP, Group C, World Sportscars, LeMans Prototypes, Daytona Prototypes and even GT1 cars could compete together. Basically as long as it's not an F1, Touring Car, WGT or USGT you'd be ok.
All the bodies you've listed are ok with me except for the RJSpeed 962. Not to pick on any particular body maker, but that 962 to me is the proverbial poster child for what a WGTP legal body should not be: poor scale accuracy and the wedge type rear end. I can accept a wedge rear end if the rest of the car is accurately modeled so on some bodies it's a judgement call.
As far as tires go, I too think those really low profile foam tires look terrible. The problem is that foam tires are very expensive and I hate to have to tell anyone that they can't get as much use out of their tires as they want. I've seen some WGT front tires that look like a bare wheel with a section of bicycle tire inner-tube stretched over it! And since some wheels might have a different diameter, maybe we can say instead that you need at least 2mm of front tire thickness and 3mm for the rears.
In regards to the PF Mulsanne, most of us know why they can't call it a Porsche 911GT1-98-licensing fees. So I have no problems with a body like that so long as it represents an original model accurately.
All the bodies you've listed are ok with me except for the RJSpeed 962. Not to pick on any particular body maker, but that 962 to me is the proverbial poster child for what a WGTP legal body should not be: poor scale accuracy and the wedge type rear end. I can accept a wedge rear end if the rest of the car is accurately modeled so on some bodies it's a judgement call.
As far as tires go, I too think those really low profile foam tires look terrible. The problem is that foam tires are very expensive and I hate to have to tell anyone that they can't get as much use out of their tires as they want. I've seen some WGT front tires that look like a bare wheel with a section of bicycle tire inner-tube stretched over it! And since some wheels might have a different diameter, maybe we can say instead that you need at least 2mm of front tire thickness and 3mm for the rears.
In regards to the PF Mulsanne, most of us know why they can't call it a Porsche 911GT1-98-licensing fees. So I have no problems with a body like that so long as it represents an original model accurately.
Protoform Mulsanne YES, RJ Speed 962 NO.
Ed, if someone wants to maximize acceleration by eliminating rotating mass, then they will cut the tire diameter to whatever is the minimum specified in the rules. If we have a large minimum diameter, then at least the tires will still be useable in other classes like WGT, BRL oval, etc., after they are worn past the minimum for WGTP. As a cheapskate, I already do that with my tires.
10-05-2013, 09:52 AM
#158
Howard, how about banning tire truers from all pit areas? LOL
No, I'm just kidding of course. I'm against going too small with a minimum tire thickness, but I understand your thinking on this. These really low cut tires like what we see at carpet tracks look really unrealistic. Let's see what everyone else thinks. I know Bullfrog (an ex-ROAR Regional Director) is against this idea, and I understand his reasoning as well. There has to be a happy medium between performance, realism and workable economics for the WGTP racer.
No, I'm just kidding of course. I'm against going too small with a minimum tire thickness, but I understand your thinking on this. These really low cut tires like what we see at carpet tracks look really unrealistic. Let's see what everyone else thinks. I know Bullfrog (an ex-ROAR Regional Director) is against this idea, and I understand his reasoning as well. There has to be a happy medium between performance, realism and workable economics for the WGTP racer.
10-05-2013, 11:18 AM
#160
One idea that I had been kicking around for a neighborhood basher (and I am NOT suggesting this as a viable option for this class) is to use the HPI F1 car's front and rear axles on a car as they both have TC-sized hexes. I have an F10 and haven't put TC/USGT/VTA tires on it to see how wide it would be. On the VF1 thread, we'd kicked the ball around on how to have scale treaded tires for those bodies. Using FGX or F10 hexes was the only viable idea I'd had. With the 1s spec, I still wish that we could use rubber tires, not foam. It would remove much of the minimum diameter issue. Unfortunately, we never came up with a good way to convert pan car hubs to 12mm hexes without the expense of a machine shop.
10-05-2013, 12:01 PM
#161
Sadly, the McAliister Daytona Proto is 190mm. I've never seen one fit a WGT chassis correctly. The Mulsanne is discontinued.
If you're rulling out the RJ Speed body...wait until you see the Colt bodies !!
The Chevron Dauer is the only one that has ANY real quality and even that's questionable.
With the course this class is taking, pray that Ed starts making bodies or Speed Passion finds a market for the LM car.
It almost makes better sense to abandon WGT chassis and concentrate on the Speed Passion since they're the ONLY folks offering a realistic LM body at this time. Tamiya may or may not re-release one or more of theirs.
It's simple folks....either work with what's available, make it yourself, have somebody else make it, or realise the lack of assets and move on.
If you're rulling out the RJ Speed body...wait until you see the Colt bodies !!
The Chevron Dauer is the only one that has ANY real quality and even that's questionable.
With the course this class is taking, pray that Ed starts making bodies or Speed Passion finds a market for the LM car.
It almost makes better sense to abandon WGT chassis and concentrate on the Speed Passion since they're the ONLY folks offering a realistic LM body at this time. Tamiya may or may not re-release one or more of theirs.
It's simple folks....either work with what's available, make it yourself, have somebody else make it, or realise the lack of assets and move on.
10-05-2013, 12:06 PM
#162
One idea that I had been kicking around for a neighborhood basher (and I am NOT suggesting this as a viable option for this class) is to use the HPI F1 car's front and rear axles on a car as they both have TC-sized hexes. I have an F10 and haven't put TC/USGT/VTA tires on it to see how wide it would be. On the VF1 thread, we'd kicked the ball around on how to have scale treaded tires for those bodies. Using FGX or F10 hexes was the only viable idea I'd had. With the 1s spec, I still wish that we could use rubber tires, not foam. It would remove much of the minimum diameter issue. Unfortunately, we never came up with a good way to convert pan car hubs to 12mm hexes without the expense of a machine shop.
The front bearings on the F103 cars are 8mm OD, so the standard 5/16" front pan car bearings will fit reasonably well. Sometimes a single thickness of Scotch tape is necessary to get them snug.
After you do this, you can play around with the various F1 rubber tire compounds on your pan car. Then you'll kick yourself for going through all that effort just to find out that the tires suck compared to foams. At least that was my reaction.
10-05-2013, 12:07 PM
#163
Maybe these folks would be interested in making more bodies. A bit pricey but obviously their purpose is in creating very scale products.
http://historicrc.com/index.html
http://historicrc.com/index.html
10-05-2013, 12:25 PM
#165
You might want to look a little closer Howard. That SP chassis is layed out SIMILAR to a wgt but not quite the same. Thus my comment. If SP turns out to be your only body choice you might want to stick with the SP LM chassis.
Notice the position of the rear body mounts. Substantially more forward and in than any WGT chassis.
keep in mind they're making this as a combo. Just because the body fits on their chassis DOES NOT mean it'll fit on a WGT chassis.
The GenX might have some hope due to the available positions for the rear post. Nobody else has that as far as i know.
Notice the position of the rear body mounts. Substantially more forward and in than any WGT chassis.
keep in mind they're making this as a combo. Just because the body fits on their chassis DOES NOT mean it'll fit on a WGT chassis.
The GenX might have some hope due to the available positions for the rear post. Nobody else has that as far as i know.