Why are we Dumbing down our hobby??
01-12-2005, 03:41 PM
#61
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
People screamed when 12th scale went 4-cell too.....it's a shame too. The cars are just so blinkin SLOW now....
People screamed when 12th scale went 4-cell too.....it's a shame too. The cars are just so blinkin SLOW now....
So 4 cell tc's= to me equals 2x1's
01-12-2005, 03:54 PM
#62
Let me take a wild guess.
Let me take a wild guess. Because it might be nice if more people joining the hobby than leaving it.
I have been racing now for 14 months.
My impression so far
Racing a remote control car is inherently a lot of fun.
(Every time I go to a parking lot race it attracts people like a magnet)
The RC establishment and the Industry as a whole conspires to wring every ounce of joy and fun out of RC Racing and replace it with frustration, difficulty and expence.
If I had not made up my mind at the beggining that I was not going to let all the BS defeat me, I would have quit long ago.
The crap you need to go through for three 5 minute heats and 5 minute main is really incredible.
I have been racing now for 14 months.
My impression so far
Racing a remote control car is inherently a lot of fun.
(Every time I go to a parking lot race it attracts people like a magnet)
The RC establishment and the Industry as a whole conspires to wring every ounce of joy and fun out of RC Racing and replace it with frustration, difficulty and expence.
If I had not made up my mind at the beggining that I was not going to let all the BS defeat me, I would have quit long ago.
The crap you need to go through for three 5 minute heats and 5 minute main is really incredible.
01-12-2005, 04:03 PM
#63
I didn't want to read all of the comments because I'd get upset, but do you guys who think RTRs are dumbing down ever eat fast food, or use the microwave?
The fact is the more people that enter the hobby the more that will stay. What level they stay at is up to them. Most stay in bashing and fooling around, some move up to occasional racer and others intense racer. Each level is just as important as the rest, but really the bottom entry level is the most important level of the pyramid of RC. Take away or have to small of the base and the rest crumbles.
It's not our hobby is dumbing down it's purest think everybody needs to be a purest too. I love racing, and think RTR have done nothing but expose more people.
The fact is the more people that enter the hobby the more that will stay. What level they stay at is up to them. Most stay in bashing and fooling around, some move up to occasional racer and others intense racer. Each level is just as important as the rest, but really the bottom entry level is the most important level of the pyramid of RC. Take away or have to small of the base and the rest crumbles.
It's not our hobby is dumbing down it's purest think everybody needs to be a purest too. I love racing, and think RTR have done nothing but expose more people.
01-12-2005, 04:16 PM
#64
As long as the RTR kits don't come with spec tires, Derek will be on board!
I think RTR is a good thing. Buying a kit that you know nothing about is a very intimidating thing, especially for nitro. RTR kits let people ease their way into the hobby, and that should be good for all of us.
The people who are too lazy to build a kit probably wouldn't want to race competitively to begin with.
I think RTR is a good thing. Buying a kit that you know nothing about is a very intimidating thing, especially for nitro. RTR kits let people ease their way into the hobby, and that should be good for all of us.
The people who are too lazy to build a kit probably wouldn't want to race competitively to begin with.
01-12-2005, 04:20 PM
#65
RTR...IMO nothing in this sport is 'dumbing' The fact that RTR are available just makes the sport easier for new B's, they are well aware the capabilites of their vehicles, nobody spontaniously spends a few hundred dollars without doing some homework on the subject first, they have already decided on where or not racing is for them and how competitive an effort...
Brushless... I don't have a problem with this becoming the popular motor of choice, it may take the 'tunning' out of the motor, but it shifts emphasis onto the speed controls charactoristics, which a seasoned racer should be more adapt to taking advantage of then someone new to the sport, ya just have to put the dynos and lathes away and turn on the computer while ur surfing @ rc-tech. Learning a new way to tune your car never hurt anyone.
4cell TC... This is the same as talking about moving the winds of stock motors to 23 or 19 turns... Just look at a stock class now, its as fast as mod a few years back... Its just going to slow the class for a year or two before levels are back to normal, no new equipment needed, just a few rules/guidlines from ROAR.
Brushless... I don't have a problem with this becoming the popular motor of choice, it may take the 'tunning' out of the motor, but it shifts emphasis onto the speed controls charactoristics, which a seasoned racer should be more adapt to taking advantage of then someone new to the sport, ya just have to put the dynos and lathes away and turn on the computer while ur surfing @ rc-tech. Learning a new way to tune your car never hurt anyone.
4cell TC... This is the same as talking about moving the winds of stock motors to 23 or 19 turns... Just look at a stock class now, its as fast as mod a few years back... Its just going to slow the class for a year or two before levels are back to normal, no new equipment needed, just a few rules/guidlines from ROAR.
01-12-2005, 04:54 PM
#66
Originally posted by nrtv20
RTR...IMO nothing in this sport is 'dumbing' The fact that RTR are available just makes the sport easier for new B's, they are well aware the capabilites of their vehicles, nobody spontaniously spends a few hundred dollars without doing some homework on the subject first, they have already decided on where or not racing is for them and how competitive an effort...
RTR...IMO nothing in this sport is 'dumbing' The fact that RTR are available just makes the sport easier for new B's, they are well aware the capabilites of their vehicles, nobody spontaniously spends a few hundred dollars without doing some homework on the subject first, they have already decided on where or not racing is for them and how competitive an effort...
He got really upset that they wouldn't take it back. And this wasn't some young spoiled kid, he was in his 40's.People these days aren't going to take the time to research what they are getting into. We are in the time of instant gratification. Learning about things takes time away from playing.
01-12-2005, 04:57 PM
#67
about the RTR's, i personally have never purchased one and dont intend to. i believe that buying a kit and building it yourself gives you more knowledge of how the car works and how to fix things in the future. IMO, RTR's are fine for the basher and mabe the novice racer but i would be pretty annoyed if i saw a RTR racing against me in pro stock class and beat me : /
01-12-2005, 05:40 PM
#68
STOP
How did this thread degrade into an RTR debate?
The original point was:
And I agree with both points.
I run brushless motors in airplanes, and it's a great advance in reliability, runtime, and cost. But for car racing, where "power" is very important, it has the potential to be very expensive. Imagine Brand B coming out with a faster ESC/motor 6 months after Brand A, then Brand C releases an even faster motor two month later... and so on. This happens with brushed motors, but brushed motors are much less expensive! And brushed ESCs last forever; I'm still running a many year old Quantum. When the "cost of racing" for brushless comes down to brushed levels then it might be appealing. Although I’ll miss passing time between heats by cutting comms.
And as far as 4-cell goes, I don’t like the idea of adding yet another class to the racing day. There are already too many options, diluting the racer count per heat, and making the race day way too long. TC Stock, 19T, Mod, 1/12 Stock, 19T, Mod, Oval Stock, Mod… blah blah… all in an assortment of Novice/Sportsman/Expert variations… half-full heats and 12 hour race days. I long for the old days of just Stock and Mod and G Mains.
Nor do I like the idea of slowing down the Mod cars. I enjoy the challenge of trying to drive them. THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT. I’d run Stock if I wanted less power.
How did this thread degrade into an RTR debate?
The original point was:
The 4-cell Sedan movement, and the advent of the brushless motor, will remove a fair amount of the challenge
I run brushless motors in airplanes, and it's a great advance in reliability, runtime, and cost. But for car racing, where "power" is very important, it has the potential to be very expensive. Imagine Brand B coming out with a faster ESC/motor 6 months after Brand A, then Brand C releases an even faster motor two month later... and so on. This happens with brushed motors, but brushed motors are much less expensive! And brushed ESCs last forever; I'm still running a many year old Quantum. When the "cost of racing" for brushless comes down to brushed levels then it might be appealing. Although I’ll miss passing time between heats by cutting comms.
And as far as 4-cell goes, I don’t like the idea of adding yet another class to the racing day. There are already too many options, diluting the racer count per heat, and making the race day way too long. TC Stock, 19T, Mod, 1/12 Stock, 19T, Mod, Oval Stock, Mod… blah blah… all in an assortment of Novice/Sportsman/Expert variations… half-full heats and 12 hour race days. I long for the old days of just Stock and Mod and G Mains.
Nor do I like the idea of slowing down the Mod cars. I enjoy the challenge of trying to drive them. THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT. I’d run Stock if I wanted less power.
01-12-2005, 05:45 PM
#69
Tech Rookie
I'm probably in the minority here, I just got into the rc scene a year ago, at the ripe old age of 42. A couple guys at work were gonna buying T-Maxx's, so to be different I bought a Savage 25RTR. I struggled with tuning issues and whatnot, did alot of homework via the web, eventually figured some stuff out, started modding, the usual. In doing my research I started to get the on-road itch. After attending a couple of local races, I was hooked. My second purchase was a NTC3+, again another RTR. My skill level wasn't quite up to a kit at that point although I really wanted an MTX3. I've since purchased a CEFX C12 kit and have become an rc junkie. In a nutshell, I would have never gotten into this if I had to go the kit route. The cost of buying a kit, engine, electronics and then having to build it, would have been too much. I guess I'll still be playing with these things when I'm 70, thanks to the ease of an RTR. It's a kit from here on out, but you gotta start somewhere.
01-12-2005, 05:48 PM
#70
Originally posted by Scottmisfits
I remember building an old Grasshopper, RC10 gold pan, and an FX10. It was no cake walk. It took me and my dad (at that time it was realistically my Dad), the better part of two weeks of working nights on them o try and build them. Now if it takes 4 hours it's too long. I like things to be simple but not easy, if you know what I'm saying. Making the car perform well should be more than just holding down a button and changing your tires. Understanding the car and why it does this when you do that to it is all a part of it.
I remember building an old Grasshopper, RC10 gold pan, and an FX10. It was no cake walk. It took me and my dad (at that time it was realistically my Dad), the better part of two weeks of working nights on them o try and build them. Now if it takes 4 hours it's too long. I like things to be simple but not easy, if you know what I'm saying. Making the car perform well should be more than just holding down a button and changing your tires. Understanding the car and why it does this when you do that to it is all a part of it.
The time you spent making a sub par product good is better spent on making a good product "perfect".
So please don't confuse patching up a company's bad quality product with that of the "joy of rc hobby".
01-12-2005, 05:54 PM
#71
Tech Rookie
Sorry guy's...I didn't realize this was a 4-cell thread. I picked it up a few posts ago. My bad.
01-12-2005, 06:15 PM
#72
You know what's dumbing up racing??? Dropping a turbo and chip into your econo box, grandma's front wheel drive, civic and thinking it's a race car..... Same arguement, huh??? We're on the "nothing beats cubic inches" debate here except with batteries and brushless...
Welp... When you hop into your modded econo box you can thank it and everyone doing it for the death of the V8 sportscar...
4 cell= 4 cylinders.... Turbo and computer swap = brushless....
While I'm at it... Those fart cans make your car sound like a freaken chainsaw.....
We should be racing 4 cell'd front wheel drive RC cars... Look at the cheesey bodies we run... Mazda 6... Stratus.... Alpha....
I say we run our RC's the same as the real cars... you can have the same amout of batteries as the real car has cylinders.... Hahahaha.....
I don't agree with 4 cells... But I do like brushless.... Our batteries have surpassed the motor technology.... If we want to stay brushed ROAR should open the floor and let the manufacturers come up with a brushed replacement....
Welp... When you hop into your modded econo box you can thank it and everyone doing it for the death of the V8 sportscar...
4 cell= 4 cylinders.... Turbo and computer swap = brushless....
While I'm at it... Those fart cans make your car sound like a freaken chainsaw.....
We should be racing 4 cell'd front wheel drive RC cars... Look at the cheesey bodies we run... Mazda 6... Stratus.... Alpha....
I say we run our RC's the same as the real cars... you can have the same amout of batteries as the real car has cylinders.... Hahahaha.....
I don't agree with 4 cells... But I do like brushless.... Our batteries have surpassed the motor technology.... If we want to stay brushed ROAR should open the floor and let the manufacturers come up with a brushed replacement....
01-12-2005, 06:30 PM
#73
Listening to an opinion that I heard at my LHS has really got me thinking about 4 cells. And to me, its simple. If a racer decides that he/she wants to buy a battery pack that cost 90 dollars because of the numbers, then whats stopping them from spending the same amount on 4-cells when battery companies claim that it will win. So now instead of having the run-time for the money, you lose runtime for the same price. Either way people will spend the money on cells to get an edge. WHO RACES AND DOESNT WANT SOME SORT OF AN EDGE? As previously posted T-Spec racing is for people who want a perfectly level playing field. The way I look at it, IT WILL ALWAYS BE A BATTERY WAR! (AND WITH BRUSHLESS ITS A MOTOR/ESC WAR)
01-12-2005, 07:08 PM
#74
Tech Addict
Facts
you walk into most hobby shops now-a-days, and whats on the shelf.
90% or more are RTR's
and guess what, there starting to make RTR's better and more raceable.
then what happens is customers come in and they will break things like, an A-arm on a RTR T4 (for example) and say I dont have time to fix it, can you (being the local hobbyshop fix it for me).
and get this customers will pay you $20 bucks to put the new A-Arm on there RTR T4
I'm not a racer from the RTR age, but this is the RTR age, most people can't understand why you would buy a factory team T4, when I can just get the RTR and get all the electronics for the same price.
Soon enough you may see a RTR, factory TC4, LRP quantum, M8, etc. in one box.
It comes built, it shouldn't break, I dont want to work on it, you should.
the RTR's are bringing people into the hobby, which is good.
however the RTR's are driving the hobby towards the toy department.
AE, Losi, hpi,x-ray, now found at Toys r Us
.02 cents
90% or more are RTR's
and guess what, there starting to make RTR's better and more raceable.
then what happens is customers come in and they will break things like, an A-arm on a RTR T4 (for example) and say I dont have time to fix it, can you (being the local hobbyshop fix it for me).
and get this customers will pay you $20 bucks to put the new A-Arm on there RTR T4
I'm not a racer from the RTR age, but this is the RTR age, most people can't understand why you would buy a factory team T4, when I can just get the RTR and get all the electronics for the same price.
Soon enough you may see a RTR, factory TC4, LRP quantum, M8, etc. in one box.
It comes built, it shouldn't break, I dont want to work on it, you should.
the RTR's are bringing people into the hobby, which is good.
however the RTR's are driving the hobby towards the toy department.
AE, Losi, hpi,x-ray, now found at Toys r Us
.02 cents
01-12-2005, 09:20 PM
#75
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
Running T-Spec on a track designed for Open mod was a HORRENDOUS mistake...
on a smaller tighter track then it might actually be interesting.
How exciting would running Go-carts at Daytona be?
Put them on a track designed for them though and then they can be quite fun!
Running T-Spec on a track designed for Open mod was a HORRENDOUS mistake...
on a smaller tighter track then it might actually be interesting.
How exciting would running Go-carts at Daytona be?
Put them on a track designed for them though and then they can be quite fun!
Dont comment unless you know first hand.
Kinda impressive when you see some karts doing 140mph pluss. They have some 300 entries. Go figure boring!
Cypressmidest most of these guys have no idea about what started this hobby.
for them hitting the enter tab requires alot of skill . like turning the speedo and transmitter on!
Guys butch up this isnt grade school where if the bully beat you up, and teacher will get the ball back for you. Get up and get it yourselves learn to do things with out counting on your mommies to make it better. You might feel accomplished if you do it your self.
Flame away so you can feel skillfull.
