Speedie

Ya have to remember that we arent the market. Racers make up less than 20% of RC sales. If we were the major consumer things would be alot different. If you watched the brushless class run at the Novak race or seen the Novak Brushless Mod demonstration run you would know its here to stay and it has a place. Anyone who doesnt like Brushless dont buy one. But the classes cant be integrated it wouldnt never be fair running apples aganst oranges one would alwayse dominate the other.

GordonFreeman

iTrader: (2)

I'm totally with you on that Cypress. I hate full throttle racing. If you make the cars overpowered, undertractioned, make the track tight and make the race short enough for batteries to not be an issue, I'm there!

And the T-Spec won't satisfy my desire for zero maintainance. Plus, like you said, it'll be slow, throttle clamp "racing".

SammyXp

I have to disagree with the sentiment that trends like low-maintenence motors (brushless, V2 endbell, etc.) and easier-to-drive cars (4 cell) are "dumbing down" the hobby.
I doubt anyone who drove one of the first cars that required the driver to periodically manually pump oil over the engine, considers the modern day oil pump to be a "dumbed down" version. It is more efficient, reliable and obviously easier to use.

Even in the pinnacle of motorsports (Formula One racing), drivers seek for chages to the chassis that make the car easier to drive. A setup that inspires confidence is already halfway to the podium.

Anyway, if we make changes in the hobby that reduce the amount of time I spend cutting commutators and buying new parts, then I am all for it. I would rather spend my time focusing on chassis setup and tuning the motor for the right blend of speed and torque.

CypressMidWest

iTrader: (1)

I do want that!! Well, not really but there are people who just are not cut out for racing. These individuals can run Nitro 4-tecs in the street, or T-Maxxes in the backyard.

These people need to unerstand that racing is a competitive endeavor. Mod TC and Mod 12th scale are the NHL, and NFL of R/C racing. You don't see the NHL or NFL restricting the size or speed of the players in their leagues, why should we?

Here at the store I try to educate my customers. I let them know up front that the RTR cars they purchase are not equipped like the car I run, and that they aren't gonna win the first time they throw their car down. I also try and let them know how much fun it is to learn and experience the hobby and grow with it.

Baja

Oddly enough i figure you can still get your @$$ handed to you by the big dogs regardless of the number of cells in a touring car. I would not be suprised if if they kicked mine if i ran with six to there four . If they want to change cell numbers make two classes four and six and everyone would be happy.

u_say_go

This hobby isnt being dumbed down one bit. RTR cars and trucks are marketed towards those who have never had a real r/c car before, but are thinking about getting into it. Every manufacturer has a RTR kit available and I think it's good for the hobby. A new guy walks into a track during race night and sees 50 guys with laptops, tire truing machines, motor lathes, $300 battery chargers etc etc, that guy is going to find out how much these people spend on this "hobby" and walk right out the door.
What's wrong with that? So what if the guy has to ask for help because he didnt build his car! None of you have ever asked for help when you started out (or still ask for help)? When you started racing years ago, if they were available, you wouldnt have gotten a RTR as your first car?
Learn to be better ambassadors to the hobby and move people will get involved. Dont look down on people because they didnt build their car, thats ridiculous.
I build hotrods, with my own hands, from the ground up.....I dont talk smack about you when you pull up in your factory built car that looks like everyone else's on the road. RIGHT!?

over gear

iTrader: (18)

i don't see why running 4cell + brushless motors are dumbing down the hobby.

this is the progress of technology... if they can make 4cell + brushless just as fast as 6cells + brushed motors, why not? it's cheaper to get things running too.

Were there any people booing electronic speed controllers when they start to replace the mechanical speed controller? I bet there were people who had tons of experience on how to make servo operated speed controller fast....

just my 2 cent.

CypressMidWest

iTrader: (1)

I'm not talking about "the Market". I'm talking about racing. Removing work for bashers is fine. We aren't the market, we are THE RACING MARKET. I have no problem with the technological progression of R/C, even within racing circles. What I'm trying to stop is the gradual de-evolution of the racing we do.

ChrisP

iTrader: (11)

CMW...I find your comments a little shocking and disturbing....an elitist attitude that some peple aren't cut out for racing could be counterproductive.

If someone can come out to the track throw their stuff on and run and have FUN then more power to them. Making it easier for people to be competitive is going to make it more fun, easier for more people, which could very well help grow the hobby.

You know that not every one is going to develop into an A-Main driver, but that doesn't mean that you want them to give up on racing.

Thisis a hobby, it's supposed to be about FUN

runnin rc10

iTrader: (1)

I agree that you want a more effiecent car, but I dont think brushless is the way to go. I think the V2 endbells are great but regardless if you are about to race the A-main at a big event and havent cut your comm in 7-8 runs, are you going to before the main? I would. I like that the hobby is making it easier to tune the cars, I just hope it doesnt go too far. I agree that the fun in it is putting the car together, setting it up, and finding what overall works best for you. Either way if the Hobby went completely brushless and the turnout for races increased by 100% then I will be racing brushless.

u_say_go

they wouldnt win their first time out if Matt Francis handed them the radio to his truck either. It is very important to help the new guy sitting across from you in the pits. If he looks like he's having trouble, lend him a hand. We can only benefit from getting involved and helping the new guy.

u_say_go

This hobby isnt being dumbed down one bit. RTR cars and trucks are marketed towards those who have never had a real r/c car before, but are thinking about getting into it. Every manufacturer has a RTR kit available and I think it's good for the hobby. A new guy walks into a track during race night and sees 50 guys with laptops, tire truing machines, motor lathes, $300 battery chargers etc etc, that guy is going to find out how much these people spend on this "hobby" and walk right out the door.
What's wrong with that? So what if the guy has to ask for help because he didnt build his car! None of you have ever asked for help when you started out (or still ask for help)? When you started racing years ago, if they were available, you wouldnt have gotten a RTR as your first car?
Learn to be better ambassadors to the hobby and move people will get involved. Dont look down on people because they didnt build their car, thats ridiculous.
I build hotrods, with my own hands, from the ground up.....I dont talk smack about you when you pull up in your factory built car that looks like everyone else's on the road. RIGHT!?

CypressMidWest

iTrader: (1)

Do you know how F-1 drivers get that set-up? They get it by testing! F-1 drivers (with the exception of KIMI Raikonnen), spend YEARS honing their skills in lesser forms of motorsport before they reach the pinnacle. The same is true of our sport. You don't just dive into 1/8th scale gas or 12th scale Mod. Leave the Challenge for those who are capable and willing to take it on.

I don't think we should change the classes on the whole, as has been proposed. Perhaps we should add a class similar to SCCA spec racing. You know something like T-spec, but with allowances for different manufacturers' chassis and bodies.

GordonFreeman

iTrader: (2)

And please don't take offense to this, but I think it's part of the core of this thread, the feeling of being "dumbed down".

I think anytime some technology comes along that make something easier for more people, the skilled people who dominated the older "skilled" way of doing things, feel threatened.

Imagine what typewritter repairmen (what's that?) felt like when computers started coming about in the 1980s? I bet they hated computers. But guess what? Computers are better for the majority, they killed off the typewritter repair business though.

Eventually brushless with be just as "tunable" as current Brushed. You'll just do it from your laptop and not have to get your hands dirty. Car tuners probably didn't like F.I. when it came along. "I can't do anything with this!" But now I'll bet you'd have to pry thier laptops from thier cold dead fingers!

It's not dumbing down, it's a technology shift.

Scott Welte

I think RTRs are great and they do help get the new person into this hobby and in no way do we look down on someone for asking questions. I ask questions all the time just ask Hodge or Dawson

I also agree that the customer needs to be educated but sometimes they walk out the door and with all the excitement they loose 50% of what you just talked to them about.

OK 3 cents