4 Cell Sedan Racing
01-02-2005, 02:54 PM
#301
I could see going to 4 cells on a Pan chassis, not our current TC chassis's....
01-02-2005, 05:30 PM
#302
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
Who know maybe for 4 cell racing to become better affordable they will need another spec motor like a 9 or 10t rebuildable. Seems like the current 19t and 27t classes are way more popular than open mod.
Usually no matter what you do beginners will always try to get into the faster classes. Although some of the better tracks encourage beginners to go slower.
Jeff
Usually no matter what you do beginners will always try to get into the faster classes. Although some of the better tracks encourage beginners to go slower.
Jeff
01-02-2005, 09:54 PM
#303
Originally posted by AdrianM
If you tested 4 cell mod and were only a little faster than 6 cell stock you were geared way wrong. You should only be a little slower than open mod. You should be a little faster than 19T 6 cell. Of course this is with real mods like 7 and 8 turns not 10 and 12 turns...lol!
If you tested 4 cell mod and were only a little faster than 6 cell stock you were geared way wrong. You should only be a little slower than open mod. You should be a little faster than 19T 6 cell. Of course this is with real mods like 7 and 8 turns not 10 and 12 turns...lol!
Adrian give it up already why do you insist we all do it? What if we dont want to!
I think all this effort you put towards this subject should be applied to bringing the price of tires down so racing can be more affordable!
01-02-2005, 10:08 PM
#304
Tech Addict
iTrader: (2)
So after reading all this - I tried it out today.
I ran a pack in practice - 6cells - 10 turns. 8.20 final drive.
I then ran 4 cells, same motor, 7.50 final drive. This felt undergeared. Went up a tooth to a 7.20 final. This felt really good.
The car felt slower(duh), but it also felt very nimble and responsive. I admit, it was pretty cool.
So the first round I ran 6cell/10turn, car was dialed, tires overheated slightly in the last 30 seconds or so - CS27's with 4-5 runs on them. Ran 20 - 5:07 in a clean bobble free run. Fastest single lap 14.6. This was TQ time.
Second round, back to the 4 cell setup. Car felt more dialed (hey, a slow car handles right?), tires didn't overheat at all. Ran 19 - 5:04, couple traffic issues (hard to pass when you have waaay less rip than the other guys). Fastest single lap 15.0.
The car felt more flat - less punch. Straightaway speed was pretty good - the other cars were faster, but only in getting up to speed in the first 1/3 of the straight (130' straight). Motor was MUCH cooler after run. Battery was hot as hell - usual.
So basically I went 12 seconds slower, maybe 10 seconds with a little help in traffic. That is a half second a lap. For reference, the 19turn TQ was 20 - 5:14.
I think if I was running 4cell with a 7 or 8 turn, I may have been just as fast. I plan on trying this next week.
I ran a pack in practice - 6cells - 10 turns. 8.20 final drive.
I then ran 4 cells, same motor, 7.50 final drive. This felt undergeared. Went up a tooth to a 7.20 final. This felt really good.
The car felt slower(duh), but it also felt very nimble and responsive. I admit, it was pretty cool.
So the first round I ran 6cell/10turn, car was dialed, tires overheated slightly in the last 30 seconds or so - CS27's with 4-5 runs on them. Ran 20 - 5:07 in a clean bobble free run. Fastest single lap 14.6. This was TQ time.
Second round, back to the 4 cell setup. Car felt more dialed (hey, a slow car handles right?), tires didn't overheat at all. Ran 19 - 5:04, couple traffic issues (hard to pass when you have waaay less rip than the other guys). Fastest single lap 15.0.
The car felt more flat - less punch. Straightaway speed was pretty good - the other cars were faster, but only in getting up to speed in the first 1/3 of the straight (130' straight). Motor was MUCH cooler after run. Battery was hot as hell - usual.
So basically I went 12 seconds slower, maybe 10 seconds with a little help in traffic. That is a half second a lap. For reference, the 19turn TQ was 20 - 5:14.
I think if I was running 4cell with a 7 or 8 turn, I may have been just as fast. I plan on trying this next week.
01-03-2005, 12:56 AM
#307
Originally posted by RC Driver Gary
People don't see or want to admit that turnout is down at tracks around the country. I personally blame the expansion of foam tire racing and the cost of tires, and I see bringing down the cell count from 6 to 4 cells to be a great idea. 1/12th scale was dying...now 1/12th scale is amongst the fastest growing classes around the country. Why? Was there some magic chassis that came out? No. Did prices of kits drop to under $100? No. Racers simply began to realize that this was a viable and inexpensive alternative in comparison to sedan racing. With fewer cells, the cars would slow down meaning that cars wouldn't hit the wall as hard, would use up tires as quickly, motors and brushes would last longer, and competition would get closer. Charlie mentions a mabuchi class, but the problem there is that it's mispreceived as a beginner's class. If you go to 4 cells, you may even see more and more people running modified as well. Who knows, why not at least give it a try?
People don't see or want to admit that turnout is down at tracks around the country. I personally blame the expansion of foam tire racing and the cost of tires, and I see bringing down the cell count from 6 to 4 cells to be a great idea. 1/12th scale was dying...now 1/12th scale is amongst the fastest growing classes around the country. Why? Was there some magic chassis that came out? No. Did prices of kits drop to under $100? No. Racers simply began to realize that this was a viable and inexpensive alternative in comparison to sedan racing. With fewer cells, the cars would slow down meaning that cars wouldn't hit the wall as hard, would use up tires as quickly, motors and brushes would last longer, and competition would get closer. Charlie mentions a mabuchi class, but the problem there is that it's mispreceived as a beginner's class. If you go to 4 cells, you may even see more and more people running modified as well. Who knows, why not at least give it a try?
Foam tire racing kills attendance. You have the casual outdoor guys who simply WON'T plunk down the extra dough for more and more tires, plus the tire truer.
Then you simply end up with the same 'ol Bubbas running together on Sunday. Who get crabby if you ask to use their tire truer, etc. Personally, I HATE foams.
RC needs to do SOMETHING to get fresh faces on the TRACK, not just running in the backyard / street.
I'd personally like to see foams banned from sanctioned racing. Rubber or bust. Make a carpet rubber compound too, I don't care...but kill the foamies...
01-03-2005, 08:02 AM
#308
Originally posted by Soviet
I can personally vouch for what you are saying Gary.
Foam tire racing kills attendance. You have the casual outdoor guys who simply WON'T plunk down the extra dough for more and more tires, plus the tire truer.
Then you simply end up with the same 'ol Bubbas running together on Sunday. Who get crabby if you ask to use their tire truer, etc. Personally, I HATE foams.
RC needs to do SOMETHING to get fresh faces on the TRACK, not just running in the backyard / street.
I'd personally like to see foams banned from sanctioned racing. Rubber or bust. Make a carpet rubber compound too, I don't care...but kill the foamies...
I can personally vouch for what you are saying Gary.
Foam tire racing kills attendance. You have the casual outdoor guys who simply WON'T plunk down the extra dough for more and more tires, plus the tire truer.
Then you simply end up with the same 'ol Bubbas running together on Sunday. Who get crabby if you ask to use their tire truer, etc. Personally, I HATE foams.
RC needs to do SOMETHING to get fresh faces on the TRACK, not just running in the backyard / street.
I'd personally like to see foams banned from sanctioned racing. Rubber or bust. Make a carpet rubber compound too, I don't care...but kill the foamies...
At the club track I race at i have only seen one tire truer. i'm sure there are some hidden ones but for the most part i don't see a need to use them at the club level. My foams have worn evenly over about 12 runs and I can easily get another 12. Also at $11 dollars a pair they are pretty cheap.
01-03-2005, 08:17 AM
#309
Originally posted by J.Filipow
Adrian- This reads like an oval thread...and what I mean by that is, pretty soon, the TC class at the ROAR On Road Nats will look like the Oval Nats: 4 cell TC 19T, 6 cell TC 19T, 4 cell TC Stock handout tire, 6 cell TC Stock handout tire/spec driveshaft, 4 cell sportsman mod, 6 cell factory mod handout tire/one run chassis, etc.
Everyone makes the A!
Adrian- This reads like an oval thread...and what I mean by that is, pretty soon, the TC class at the ROAR On Road Nats will look like the Oval Nats: 4 cell TC 19T, 6 cell TC 19T, 4 cell TC Stock handout tire, 6 cell TC Stock handout tire/spec driveshaft, 4 cell sportsman mod, 6 cell factory mod handout tire/one run chassis, etc.
Everyone makes the A!
01-03-2005, 08:27 AM
#310
thedominator - Based on you post I can tell the racing in your area is very casual. If you had a few hard core fast guys like in Tampa, Orlando or Miami you would have to true you tire down to a tiny size to be fast, they would only last for ~2 runs at that size due to our Florida coral based asphalt. We see this all the time in Nitro Racing. Casual club racers run full size foams and get smoked when they come to big races. For nitro club races we true down to 61mm. For State Races we true down to 58mm. We will only go bigger if there is a wear issue of of the main is longer than 30 min.
If we ran foam on electric sedan on asphalt we would start at 57mm and the tires would only survive for 2-5min runs. When it come to foam smaller is faster. At the Worlds the 1/12th front tires looked like a rim wrapped in a couple of layers of electrical tape.
If we ran foam on electric sedan on asphalt we would start at 57mm and the tires would only survive for 2-5min runs. When it come to foam smaller is faster. At the Worlds the 1/12th front tires looked like a rim wrapped in a couple of layers of electrical tape.
01-03-2005, 08:30 AM
#311
Originally posted by Soviet
I can personally vouch for what you are saying Gary.
Foam tire racing kills attendance. You have the casual outdoor guys who simply WON'T plunk down the extra dough for more and more tires, plus the tire truer.
Then you simply end up with the same 'ol Bubbas running together on Sunday. Who get crabby if you ask to use their tire truer, etc. Personally, I HATE foams.
RC needs to do SOMETHING to get fresh faces on the TRACK, not just running in the backyard / street.
I'd personally like to see foams banned from sanctioned racing. Rubber or bust. Make a carpet rubber compound too, I don't care...but kill the foamies...
I can personally vouch for what you are saying Gary.
Foam tire racing kills attendance. You have the casual outdoor guys who simply WON'T plunk down the extra dough for more and more tires, plus the tire truer.
Then you simply end up with the same 'ol Bubbas running together on Sunday. Who get crabby if you ask to use their tire truer, etc. Personally, I HATE foams.
RC needs to do SOMETHING to get fresh faces on the TRACK, not just running in the backyard / street.
I'd personally like to see foams banned from sanctioned racing. Rubber or bust. Make a carpet rubber compound too, I don't care...but kill the foamies...
Adrian: Do you guys race on asphalt or a beltsander? Nitro foams hook up VERY well on our extremely abrasive asphalt and I can get more than two weekends out of a set which equates to around 12-13 packs. Foams don't always work better when they are at their smallest. On asphalt there's usually a window for the sidewall height that is ideal. I can start a set of 35 rears and 40 fronts at 2.3" (I don't do metric) and get two weekends out of them in stock. In Mod you'll get the full weekend and you could theoretically practice on them again the following weekend. CS27's on our parking lot track last approximately 2 packs, then they are completely without grip.
We already did the experiment when we thought that foam tire wear was excessive, perhaps a different rubber tire would have made our experience more interesting, but seeing as we couldn't find any other pre-mounts, that's what we went with.
Last edited by CypressMidWest; 01-03-2005 at 08:45 AM.
01-03-2005, 08:34 AM
#312
Outdoor nitro foams last a day if were lucky! But rubber is just as bad, doesn't wear any better. So why give up the grip! ya we don't true our tires here b/c the weare is so fast on our track, but the compitition was intense!
01-03-2005, 08:36 AM
#313
Originally posted by speedxl
Adrian give it up already why do you insist we all do it? What if we dont want to!
I think all this effort you put towards this subject should be applied to bringing the price of tires down so racing can be more affordable!
Adrian give it up already why do you insist we all do it? What if we dont want to!
I think all this effort you put towards this subject should be applied to bringing the price of tires down so racing can be more affordable!
I understand, that many of us do not want change in racing, but change in the amount of what we spend can be changed, correct? Well this may help in the long run.....
01-03-2005, 08:38 AM
#314
Originally posted by AdrianM
Casual club racers run full size foams and get smoked when they come to big races.
Casual club racers run full size foams and get smoked when they come to big races.
too much money. I was just saying for your "average joe" club racer you don't need a truer to be competitive and that I don't see foams killing attendance. The main thing I see killing attendance is discouragment. After getting beaten several times by the local fast guy some people just give up. it took me a year till i could keep up with the fast guys. i think it is an attitude problem, not an equipment problem.
01-03-2005, 08:52 AM
#315
Originally posted by brianhackett
Outdoor nitro foams last a day if were lucky! But rubber is just as bad, doesn't wear any better. So why give up the grip! ya we don't true our tires here b/c the weare is so fast on our track, but the compitition was intense!
Outdoor nitro foams last a day if were lucky! But rubber is just as bad, doesn't wear any better. So why give up the grip! ya we don't true our tires here b/c the weare is so fast on our track, but the compitition was intense!
Last edited by CypressMidWest; 01-03-2005 at 08:58 AM.