2011 ROAR Electric On-road Paved Nationals at Jackson R/C, NJ 7/28-31
07-13-2011, 08:28 AM
#361
Tech Regular
iTrader: (25)
Wow. 
Since Perez was calling FJ a sandbagger that was kinda the point.... i guess i shoulda made in 10 stock wins to exclude you but i wasn't really think about that at the time. 
I'm not back tracking at all at this point. You are a sandbagger deal with it or do something so people don't call you one anymore.
Since Perez was calling FJ a sandbagger that was kinda the point.... i guess i shoulda made in 10 stock wins to exclude you but i wasn't really think about that at the time. I'm not back tracking at all at this point. You are a sandbagger deal with it or do something so people don't call you one anymore.
So since he doesn't run mod, he's a Sandbagger????
07-13-2011, 08:30 AM
#362
Tech Elite
iTrader: (171)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Brooklyn New York GO HARD OR GO HOME!!!!!!
Posts: 4,362
Trader Rating: 171 (100%+)
I'm going to run Mini's
07-13-2011, 09:01 AM
#366
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
Wow. Since Perez was calling FJ a sandbagger that was kinda the point.... i guess i shoulda made in 10 stock wins to exclude you but i wasn't really think about that at the time.
I'm not back tracking at all at this point. You are a sandbagger deal with it or do something so people don't call you one anymore.
Since Perez was calling FJ a sandbagger that was kinda the point.... i guess i shoulda made in 10 stock wins to exclude you but i wasn't really think about that at the time. I'm not back tracking at all at this point. You are a sandbagger deal with it or do something so people don't call you one anymore.
07-13-2011, 02:54 PM
#368
Tech Elite
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Comin at ya from a distant galaxy
Posts: 2,930
Trader Rating: 51 (100%+)
Dag... Fella's I leave the track for a few weeks and your fighting Lol... Guess I'm going to have to stop down and bring some positive vibe with me Lol...
We all gotta kick back enjoy are self's order a whole truckload of white castle burgers and groove on out Lol...
We all gotta kick back enjoy are self's order a whole truckload of white castle burgers and groove on out Lol...
07-13-2011, 05:37 PM
#372
Tech Elite
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Comin at ya from a distant galaxy
Posts: 2,930
Trader Rating: 51 (100%+)
07-13-2011, 07:14 PM
#373
07-14-2011, 11:31 AM
#374
All - there was a thread on the roar forums about sandbagging etc. Please please log into the Roar forum and express your concerns. They are paying attention and trying to make things better. Yesterday Steve Pond posted the following. It was so well written that I cannot help but want to share it with the rctech universe.
Eric is correct. For the moment, there is no "sportsman stock." That doesn't mean there's no desire to have such a rule in place, and in fact some form of it will be in place eventually.
I think it's best to provide some background on what's changed and how we're going about making a decision that will affect the 2012 racing season. The current motors being evaluated for "stock" class racing are 21.5, 17.5 and 13.5. The reason for the range is that, in on-road racing, there aren't as many classes of vehicle, so there have typically been more than just stock and modified classes. The range of motors is to evaluate which will be the best two for on-road applications. For off-road, the decision is more simple - just a stock class will exist, and it will be one of same three motors already being tested.
There is no "sportsman" class at this year's on-road nationals because of the interim changes in the ESC rules. We're evaluating each of the motors and how they run in a zero-timing environment. Having skilled drivers in "stock" and "intermediate" classes (just my class names at the moment) will give us some good data to compare the capabilities of all three motors. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that pro drivers should be running those classes even though it's relatively open, but I'll get into that more next. The key point to understand now, is that we're seeking information so we can make a determination on which two motors will be used under the 2012 specification for the on-road classes, and for the off-road stock class.
Now, as for the pro drivers running in the "stock" class - I'm not in favor of it. It's not a statement about the drivers that are entered in this event, but an overall desire to keep the stock class as one where up-and-coming drivers can cut their teeth at National level events without having to constantly pull over for much faster drivers, the latter having clearly advanced skills that are beyond such a class. Then there's the issue of the sponsored drivers. It's been a timeless battle between the racers that pay for their own gear, and those that don't, racing together in the same class. Some drivers don't mind it, and others do. I lean towards leaving the "stock" class to drivers with less experience. The intermediate class give all the drivers from both ranks a chance to run together if that's their choice, but the other drivers that don't want to race against seasoned pros, shouldn't have to. I think once we have the classes better sorted out, we'll be implementing a rule that's similar to what's been previously in effect.
Next the issue comes down to the ability to enforce it whatever decision is made to separate drivers of different skill levels. I personally believe the cut-off should be any drivers that have a 100-percent chassis sponsor. Drivers with lower levels of sponsorship are still paying for their gear, albeit a lesser amount. The drivers that have 100-percent sponsorships are generally well known, so it shouldn't be too difficult to know which ones shouldn't be in a given class if that's the decision, but the waters are much more murky beyond that. It's difficult to enforce a rule with drivers that only have a partial sponsor. Regardless of the outcome, I will still support a rule that doesn't allow for sponsor promotion in whatever class is most appropriate for the lesser skilled drivers. For them, it's a hobby and perhaps they're attending a national event for the first time, or maybe are coming back for a second or third run to hone their skills.
This is just my own personal opinion, but one that I've held for 30 years - drivers should aspire to advance into more competitive classes. This is racing after all, and without a desire to compete at a higher level, there's not much point in the competition. There should also be a structure that encourages advancement, because after all, ROAR is responsible for fielding a team to go to the IFMAR World Championships. Through apathy or by not creating a system that encourages competition in the prestigious modified classes, the US teams at recent IFMAR events in the electric on-road categories, have only had marginal success, to be as kind as possible. We need our best talent to aspire to higher levels of competition so they're prepared for IFMAR level competition when the time comes. It's an honor that has no equal, and I would at least like to create a system that inspires racers to achieve their best results at the highest levels of competition.
Lastly, this is an issue that I feel should be supported by the manufacturers that sponsor the drivers. I know from personal experience that many companies require their sponsored drivers to compete in the "pro," "modified," or at least "open" classes as a condition of their sponsorship. This is the right approach in my opinion. It's a matter of pride and honor for many of these companies to not only compete against the very best, but to win at that level. It's the manifestation of all their hard work, culminating in an honorable victory that says to the world that those products can beat the best in the world. It's much more prestigious than a victory against drivers that haven't even developed the skills needed to compete in the stock class at a high level, no less an intermediate or modified class. I respect manufacturers that respect their customer's wishes to have a class of their own without having the contend with drivers that are at professional skill levels, or within reasonable proximity anyway. If this were a more popular viewpoint amongst the racing community, ROAR wouldn't have to make awkward rules to give our members what the sponsors would not. An environment in which they can excel and aspire to advance into the higher ranks without having to watch the rear-view mirrors for the pro drivers.
I think it's best to provide some background on what's changed and how we're going about making a decision that will affect the 2012 racing season. The current motors being evaluated for "stock" class racing are 21.5, 17.5 and 13.5. The reason for the range is that, in on-road racing, there aren't as many classes of vehicle, so there have typically been more than just stock and modified classes. The range of motors is to evaluate which will be the best two for on-road applications. For off-road, the decision is more simple - just a stock class will exist, and it will be one of same three motors already being tested.
There is no "sportsman" class at this year's on-road nationals because of the interim changes in the ESC rules. We're evaluating each of the motors and how they run in a zero-timing environment. Having skilled drivers in "stock" and "intermediate" classes (just my class names at the moment) will give us some good data to compare the capabilities of all three motors. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that pro drivers should be running those classes even though it's relatively open, but I'll get into that more next. The key point to understand now, is that we're seeking information so we can make a determination on which two motors will be used under the 2012 specification for the on-road classes, and for the off-road stock class.
Now, as for the pro drivers running in the "stock" class - I'm not in favor of it. It's not a statement about the drivers that are entered in this event, but an overall desire to keep the stock class as one where up-and-coming drivers can cut their teeth at National level events without having to constantly pull over for much faster drivers, the latter having clearly advanced skills that are beyond such a class. Then there's the issue of the sponsored drivers. It's been a timeless battle between the racers that pay for their own gear, and those that don't, racing together in the same class. Some drivers don't mind it, and others do. I lean towards leaving the "stock" class to drivers with less experience. The intermediate class give all the drivers from both ranks a chance to run together if that's their choice, but the other drivers that don't want to race against seasoned pros, shouldn't have to. I think once we have the classes better sorted out, we'll be implementing a rule that's similar to what's been previously in effect.
Next the issue comes down to the ability to enforce it whatever decision is made to separate drivers of different skill levels. I personally believe the cut-off should be any drivers that have a 100-percent chassis sponsor. Drivers with lower levels of sponsorship are still paying for their gear, albeit a lesser amount. The drivers that have 100-percent sponsorships are generally well known, so it shouldn't be too difficult to know which ones shouldn't be in a given class if that's the decision, but the waters are much more murky beyond that. It's difficult to enforce a rule with drivers that only have a partial sponsor. Regardless of the outcome, I will still support a rule that doesn't allow for sponsor promotion in whatever class is most appropriate for the lesser skilled drivers. For them, it's a hobby and perhaps they're attending a national event for the first time, or maybe are coming back for a second or third run to hone their skills.
This is just my own personal opinion, but one that I've held for 30 years - drivers should aspire to advance into more competitive classes. This is racing after all, and without a desire to compete at a higher level, there's not much point in the competition. There should also be a structure that encourages advancement, because after all, ROAR is responsible for fielding a team to go to the IFMAR World Championships. Through apathy or by not creating a system that encourages competition in the prestigious modified classes, the US teams at recent IFMAR events in the electric on-road categories, have only had marginal success, to be as kind as possible. We need our best talent to aspire to higher levels of competition so they're prepared for IFMAR level competition when the time comes. It's an honor that has no equal, and I would at least like to create a system that inspires racers to achieve their best results at the highest levels of competition.
Lastly, this is an issue that I feel should be supported by the manufacturers that sponsor the drivers. I know from personal experience that many companies require their sponsored drivers to compete in the "pro," "modified," or at least "open" classes as a condition of their sponsorship. This is the right approach in my opinion. It's a matter of pride and honor for many of these companies to not only compete against the very best, but to win at that level. It's the manifestation of all their hard work, culminating in an honorable victory that says to the world that those products can beat the best in the world. It's much more prestigious than a victory against drivers that haven't even developed the skills needed to compete in the stock class at a high level, no less an intermediate or modified class. I respect manufacturers that respect their customer's wishes to have a class of their own without having the contend with drivers that are at professional skill levels, or within reasonable proximity anyway. If this were a more popular viewpoint amongst the racing community, ROAR wouldn't have to make awkward rules to give our members what the sponsors would not. An environment in which they can excel and aspire to advance into the higher ranks without having to watch the rear-view mirrors for the pro drivers.
07-14-2011, 11:48 AM
#375
All - there was a thread on the roar forums about sandbagging etc. Please please log into the Roar forum and express your concerns. They are paying attention and trying to make things better. Yesterday Steve Pond posted the following. It was so well written that I cannot help but want to share it with the rctech universe.
I think we need to go back to having just stock and mod. I don't get to race all that often anymore, and I'm a "B" main driver at best. And thats ok, I don't think AE makes enough spare parts for me to run mod: weather I pay for them or not
Stock is where its at!