Speedmerchant Rev.4
07-17-2006, 02:37 PM
#692
What would using taller stand-off spacers under the rear links do on this car? What about tipping the links using taller standoffs in the front links?
Just wondering out loud. It's a very warm and boring day here.
I ran the new car for the first time yesterday. Absolutely brilliant. I was honestly disappointed in the initial quality and parts spec in the kit right out of the box, but I took a lot of patience and detail care in the build and the car was almost perfect right out of the box. It made me feel like a better driver from the second I dropped it on the track. I have gone through just about every chassis in the last two years, and I finally found one that I won't turn around and sell. The car lives up to the cult following, for sure. The only knock I can find on it is that it is tough to swallow the entry price considering the $9 front end, steel turnbuckles, $11 VCS shock and no tires, body, antenna, spare washers, springs or anything else. Once upgraded to "snob specs" though, it's an absolutely brilliant chassis.
If I can keep it in one piece, this car is going to be fantastic to race this winter. I love the new Speed 12B in stock, too. A very neutral body, to say the least.
Just wondering out loud. It's a very warm and boring day here.
I ran the new car for the first time yesterday. Absolutely brilliant. I was honestly disappointed in the initial quality and parts spec in the kit right out of the box, but I took a lot of patience and detail care in the build and the car was almost perfect right out of the box. It made me feel like a better driver from the second I dropped it on the track. I have gone through just about every chassis in the last two years, and I finally found one that I won't turn around and sell. The car lives up to the cult following, for sure. The only knock I can find on it is that it is tough to swallow the entry price considering the $9 front end, steel turnbuckles, $11 VCS shock and no tires, body, antenna, spare washers, springs or anything else. Once upgraded to "snob specs" though, it's an absolutely brilliant chassis.
If I can keep it in one piece, this car is going to be fantastic to race this winter. I love the new Speed 12B in stock, too. A very neutral body, to say the least.
07-17-2006, 04:42 PM
#693
Apexspeed- Glad you are enjoying your car. Myself and the rest of the team pretty much run a box stock car, some run the front arm supports although I have made many national A mains without them, besides that option and maybe o rings on the links the entire team runs the car as you got it out of the box.
As far as the adjustment you are talking about it changes your rear roll center, just as moving the rear arm mounts higher in a touring car would, raising the rear links makes your roll center higher. I have always run the low roll centers as do I think most guys do. I have never really messed with the adjustment myself, however if you need more steering and have found no other way to add it you like you can try raising it a bit, or if you need to lock the rear end more and you have all the rotation you need you can lower them, although having run the car on over a dozen different tracks I have never really had to change set ups at all except for front tires and the center spring and how much of the front tire I sauce. Although the case might come along that a roll center change is called for as every track is different, so its always something to keep in mind.
As far as the adjustment you are talking about it changes your rear roll center, just as moving the rear arm mounts higher in a touring car would, raising the rear links makes your roll center higher. I have always run the low roll centers as do I think most guys do. I have never really messed with the adjustment myself, however if you need more steering and have found no other way to add it you like you can try raising it a bit, or if you need to lock the rear end more and you have all the rotation you need you can lower them, although having run the car on over a dozen different tracks I have never really had to change set ups at all except for front tires and the center spring and how much of the front tire I sauce. Although the case might come along that a roll center change is called for as every track is different, so its always something to keep in mind.
07-17-2006, 05:22 PM
#694
Good stuff. Thanks for that! It's amazing how such a simple design works so much better than the other simple designs. I'm skeptical about the archaic front end still, but for the car to work that well right out of the box, I'm not complaining.
Every kit has stong points and weak points, and fortunately, the strongest point of this car is the performance on the track. I can't wait to actually race it in anger now. If I can keep it off the walls, I'll be happy.
Every kit has stong points and weak points, and fortunately, the strongest point of this car is the performance on the track. I can't wait to actually race it in anger now. If I can keep it off the walls, I'll be happy.
07-17-2006, 05:35 PM
#695
I have tried the strut front end from time to time as have alot of other drivers however the old school really is dialed and alot less hastle than the new front end. While its never a great idea to hit boards, with the old school the worst than happens normally is a slightly colapsed spring where as with the strut front end you have to spend an hour re adjusting and shimming everything, and I have always had an easier to drive, smoother car with as much steering as I would ever need (normally I can run so little dual rate that my car has a hard time turning around on the straightaway, which equates to less scrub and more speed). Jeff Brown I think is the only driver currently running the strut front end and from last I heard he runs it with zero camber gain (ie identical in how the old style works but with a bit more ability to adjust camber); although Mike Dumas when he won cleveland and made the A main at the worlds ran the old style front end and his car was dialed. The strut front end is something to try although I think if you go back and forth and give the old school front end a chance you will probably end up using it almost 100% of the time.
07-17-2006, 05:50 PM
#696
Good to know. I like the strut front end with 0° blocks and no caster change. Never liked the feel of a car with progressively changing caster through a corner. Always thought it was kind of a silly idea, personally.
I actually found the old school front end to be in need of constant attention yesterday, strangely enough. Every time I'd whack a board, the car wouldn't track straight. When I'd bring it back in, the front arms wouldn't be parallel anymore and they needed to be re-aligned. I don't think I ever had a problem like that with the newer style front end, but I'm sure I'm opposite of everyone else's findings.
I also managed this rare feat on the 12th battery pack of my test day (see photo attached). With one last run planned, I went to full new tires, a total rebuild on my motor and everything was perfect, just like it was a main. On the third lap, at the end of the long back straight, the car clipped a crusty, slightly pulled seam in the carpet right on the apex of the corner, and the car was speared off the track and pancaked into the wall at the end of the straight. I limped into the next few corners and something was VERY wrong. What I found susprised me a lot. I've never seen a chassis do that, ever.
I suck as a driver, but not THAT much. 
Yikes.
I actually found the old school front end to be in need of constant attention yesterday, strangely enough. Every time I'd whack a board, the car wouldn't track straight. When I'd bring it back in, the front arms wouldn't be parallel anymore and they needed to be re-aligned. I don't think I ever had a problem like that with the newer style front end, but I'm sure I'm opposite of everyone else's findings.
I also managed this rare feat on the 12th battery pack of my test day (see photo attached). With one last run planned, I went to full new tires, a total rebuild on my motor and everything was perfect, just like it was a main. On the third lap, at the end of the long back straight, the car clipped a crusty, slightly pulled seam in the carpet right on the apex of the corner, and the car was speared off the track and pancaked into the wall at the end of the straight. I limped into the next few corners and something was VERY wrong. What I found susprised me a lot. I've never seen a chassis do that, ever.
I suck as a driver, but not THAT much.
Yikes.
Last edited by squarehead; 11-29-2010 at 02:53 PM.
07-17-2006, 06:31 PM
#697
Run whatever you like to run and as long as your happy with it thats what matters.
As far as the chassis, its not totally written off. Some super glue and a pair of vicegrips and it should be somewhat close to new. It happens from time to time, I do it every year or two, for club racing though its fine I doubt you will notice much as it is mostly infront of the suspenion and a part of the chassis that doesnt flex much under load.
As far as the chassis, its not totally written off. Some super glue and a pair of vicegrips and it should be somewhat close to new. It happens from time to time, I do it every year or two, for club racing though its fine I doubt you will notice much as it is mostly infront of the suspenion and a part of the chassis that doesnt flex much under load.
07-17-2006, 08:15 PM
#701
Its not just an issue on that chassis, I have see it happen to almost every make of 12th scale as well as some sedans (espically Xray's, even with a front bumper, I know I have split chassis a few guys at my local track, Jarrod L. who is the current stock sedan ROAR champ even split a chassis last summer). It tends to happen frequently at some tracks and none at others, if you have really hard boards and hit the wall just right it will split or you will break something else. Speedmerchant really does use the best carbon fiber in the RC industry, but in a large impact something will absorb the impact.
Just take all the screws out, put alot of superglue inbetween and clamp the whole piece together with a set of vicegrips and it should be almost as good as new, if you really want you can use the screws and them place nuts on the other side instead of the vice grip to make sure it goes together better, espically considering the area you split. The worst I have done on a speedmerchant car is splitting slightly past the body post holes, I have never gone quite near the front suspenion hole.
Just take all the screws out, put alot of superglue inbetween and clamp the whole piece together with a set of vicegrips and it should be almost as good as new, if you really want you can use the screws and them place nuts on the other side instead of the vice grip to make sure it goes together better, espically considering the area you split. The worst I have done on a speedmerchant car is splitting slightly past the body post holes, I have never gone quite near the front suspenion hole.
07-17-2006, 09:42 PM
#702
Originally Posted by stormperson
...
Just take all the screws out, put alot of superglue inbetween and clamp the whole piece together with a set of vicegrips and it should be almost as good as new, if you really want you can use the screws and them place nuts on the other side instead of the vice grip to make sure it goes together better, espically considering the area you split. The worst I have done on a speedmerchant car is splitting slightly past the body post holes, I have never gone quite near the front suspenion hole.
Just take all the screws out, put alot of superglue inbetween and clamp the whole piece together with a set of vicegrips and it should be almost as good as new, if you really want you can use the screws and them place nuts on the other side instead of the vice grip to make sure it goes together better, espically considering the area you split. The worst I have done on a speedmerchant car is splitting slightly past the body post holes, I have never gone quite near the front suspenion hole.
), I have a couple of 3/8" thick aluminum plates that I use to sandwich the chassis with and then place the assembly in a vice. This keeps it all flat and squeezes the chassis back together evenly. I put some parts bag plastic between the plates and chassis so I don't glue the plates to the cf. You'd be surprised how good a repair you can make like this.Try it, Doug-maybe you'll make the season opener after all.
07-17-2006, 11:10 PM
#703
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
Seriously??? That happens a lot? 
I don't think that should happen. Especially to a smoothed, radiused and prepped chassis. That can't be a real high grade carbon fiber if it splits the laminations that easily.
Wow.
I don't think that should happen. Especially to a smoothed, radiused and prepped chassis. That can't be a real high grade carbon fiber if it splits the laminations that easily.
Wow.
Resin binds the laminations of carbon fiber together. Resin is necessary, however the more resin in the CF, the more flex and the more weight. High resin content prevents issues like you had, ie splitting as the resin allows the cf to flex and twist. That said, high resin content CF is the lowest quality, the most flexible and the worst for an RC application. The best carbon fiber is of extremely low resin content creating a material with a high stiffness to weight ratio and, unfortunatley, a low tolerance for hard impacts.
If you've ever seen a full size race car made from autoclaved carbon fiber components crash, you'll notice the hail storm of carbon fiber fragments. This splintering effect is a result of producing components with virutally no resin (via the autoclave) .
Finally, in regards to old skool VS the world:
Run whatever you want. For my money, the old skool is superior in every conceivable way.
Firstly, the strut front end is effectively a swing axel as the lower arm is fixed. This means the camber rises very dramatically as it follows the radius of the upper arms sweep. This is moronic. You end up rolling right off the contact patch as the camber rises way past where it should. The pointlessness of the camber change is compounded when you consider we run foam tires which deform under load.
Also, the strut front end allows for very little ackerman. In stock 12th (and mod), scrub is the enemy. Dragging around the inside tire makes the car twitchy and scrub like a mofo.
The old skool has NO CAMBER CHANGE. You set static negative and thats it. There are enourmous benifits to this. Firstly, you start your turn in with less than full contact patch as there is a hair of negative camber in all the good SM setups. As the car transfers weight, it rolls right onto the contact patch picking up front traction. The car gains steering through the corner making it easy to drive and fast.
On contemporary formula 1 cars where there is a minimal amount of suspension travel (similar to a 12th scale) there is no longer ANY CAMBER GAIN engineered into the suspension.
Also, the old skool allows for a suitable amout of ackerman. Making the car easy to drive and extremely efficient.
07-18-2006, 02:17 AM
#704
Did everyone get that?
07-18-2006, 07:08 AM
#705
You dont want to "scrub like a mofo"......You will have less flava