16LikesSerpent S411
01-26-2013, 12:02 PM
#5071
so just the shocks and steering you have the new car form a te. that's more reasonable than $489 lol.
Im sure the split blocks would be nice but you could probably achieve the same effect using urethane spacers instead of the metal ones on the old style arm mounts.
but that makes for a lot of sku's for chassis parts. are the new chassis plates going to be compatible with the old arm mount location for those of us who might want to keep older cars running?
I don't really wanna get into having to buy more than one chassis plate or top deck in addition to the car..
though. i guess if I ever get to the competitive level some of you guys are running, i might have a different outlook on that ha.
Im sure the split blocks would be nice but you could probably achieve the same effect using urethane spacers instead of the metal ones on the old style arm mounts.
but that makes for a lot of sku's for chassis parts. are the new chassis plates going to be compatible with the old arm mount location for those of us who might want to keep older cars running?
I don't really wanna get into having to buy more than one chassis plate or top deck in addition to the car..
though. i guess if I ever get to the competitive level some of you guys are running, i might have a different outlook on that ha.
I myself will be getting a new kit, and I am excited.
Steve
01-26-2013, 01:20 PM
#5073
If you follow the past thread with all the mods done to the existing S411 your car will be very competitive as is, only a few of the tuning options are really required, the rest is the fine tune of the existing parts. Option parts are for the most part the one piece motor mount, using the 2 piece leg with it. Replace the second o-ring in the RCM shocks with a 2mm spacers to get less stiction in the shocks and getting the diff freer make the car a potent weapon. (I'd probably upgrade to the composite gears for the diff as well). Run 1mm spacers under your top deck if you don't want to mill the half shaft supports down. As you wear out parts the new will filter into place and you'll end up with a 90% new version car.
01-26-2013, 02:33 PM
#5074
its quite a long thread so summary view would be nice lol. i think its all the excitment of somthing new with the new car and parts. i just got these 411's so ill probably leave them alone this year. certainly wasnt the car slowing me down. driving style probably had a lot more to do with it as both cars were very well stuck to the ground on the carpet. excited to get them outside as i upped my personal best by two whole laps with the serpents indoors.
It is kind of nice this car has been around for a while now though and it hasn't fundamentally changed much. unlike some other big names in the game. i mean. sure its changed, but nice you dont have to drop $250 on it per year to keep up.
It is kind of nice this car has been around for a while now though and it hasn't fundamentally changed much. unlike some other big names in the game. i mean. sure its changed, but nice you dont have to drop $250 on it per year to keep up.
01-27-2013, 04:39 AM
#5075
its quite a long thread so summary view would be nice lol. i think its all the excitment of somthing new with the new car and parts. i just got these 411's so ill probably leave them alone this year. certainly wasnt the car slowing me down. driving style probably had a lot more to do with it as both cars were very well stuck to the ground on the carpet. excited to get them outside as i upped my personal best by two whole laps with the serpents indoors.
It is kind of nice this car has been around for a while now though and it hasn't fundamentally changed much. unlike some other big names in the game. i mean. sure its changed, but nice you dont have to drop $250 on it per year to keep up.
It is kind of nice this car has been around for a while now though and it hasn't fundamentally changed much. unlike some other big names in the game. i mean. sure its changed, but nice you dont have to drop $250 on it per year to keep up.
Front DCJ's
One-piece motor mount
Hard suspension plastics
1.5 suspension block on the FR position
Extra delrin shims for the shocks (for the single o-ring, but you could use normal shims for this too)
For older cars, I'd add the V2 steering rack to that list, and that's it. Both types of shocks work fine, my TE has RCM's and my other car the RCXX's... can't tell much difference!
That's it, not really a lot of parts. Yes I have a few custom bits and extras on my TE (steering mod, top deck with a front brace, home made servo mount, VBC plastic gears in the diff), but they aren't necessarily must haves, just things I've worked on. Oh, and I don't use Serpent springs, but Ride and HPI's, but that's a personal preference thing.
So certainly can be competitive with the old car... and the fact the new parts will fit to the old relatively easy is a bonus. I do intend to make a test when my new vehicle arrives, and test out old vs new, and if possible, try the old (long) shocks on the new car, and see what the difference is... if I get the time that is!
Ed
01-27-2013, 06:36 AM
#5076
Tech Regular
iTrader: (16)
As Gary mentioned, to make the current car's competitive really only needs a few choice upgrades. In my experience, a TE only really needs the following;
Front DCJ's
One-piece motor mount
Hard suspension plastics
1.5 suspension block on the FR position
Extra delrin shims for the shocks (for the single o-ring, but you could use normal shims for this too)
For older cars, I'd add the V2 steering rack to that list, and that's it. Both types of shocks work fine, my TE has RCM's and my other car the RCXX's... can't tell much difference!
That's it, not really a lot of parts. Yes I have a few custom bits and extras on my TE (steering mod, top deck with a front brace, home made servo mount, VBC plastic gears in the diff), but they aren't necessarily must haves, just things I've worked on. Oh, and I don't use Serpent springs, but Ride and HPI's, but that's a personal preference thing.
So certainly can be competitive with the old car... and the fact the new parts will fit to the old relatively easy is a bonus. I do intend to make a test when my new vehicle arrives, and test out old vs new, and if possible, try the old (long) shocks on the new car, and see what the difference is... if I get the time that is!
Ed
Front DCJ's
One-piece motor mount
Hard suspension plastics
1.5 suspension block on the FR position
Extra delrin shims for the shocks (for the single o-ring, but you could use normal shims for this too)
For older cars, I'd add the V2 steering rack to that list, and that's it. Both types of shocks work fine, my TE has RCM's and my other car the RCXX's... can't tell much difference!
That's it, not really a lot of parts. Yes I have a few custom bits and extras on my TE (steering mod, top deck with a front brace, home made servo mount, VBC plastic gears in the diff), but they aren't necessarily must haves, just things I've worked on. Oh, and I don't use Serpent springs, but Ride and HPI's, but that's a personal preference thing.
So certainly can be competitive with the old car... and the fact the new parts will fit to the old relatively easy is a bonus. I do intend to make a test when my new vehicle arrives, and test out old vs new, and if possible, try the old (long) shocks on the new car, and see what the difference is... if I get the time that is!
Ed
Any whoo if everything goes as planned I will have the new kit tomorrow I will post some pics.
01-27-2013, 12:06 PM
#5077
only thing id need is the shafts and suspension block. both cars have v2 steering. one car has one peice mount, other two peice.
had the older 411 out with stock equipment last night and the flipped shocks and it was very easy to drive it around the 12th scale course. average amain 17.5 12th scale lap was 9.4-9.8 where i was able to get around in 17.5 touring car in 10.6. so not terrible really.
ill see how it does this outdoor season before i go spending money. ill save the te for mod.
had the older 411 out with stock equipment last night and the flipped shocks and it was very easy to drive it around the 12th scale course. average amain 17.5 12th scale lap was 9.4-9.8 where i was able to get around in 17.5 touring car in 10.6. so not terrible really.
ill see how it does this outdoor season before i go spending money. ill save the te for mod.
01-27-2013, 12:32 PM
#5078
As Gary mentioned, to make the current car's competitive really only needs a few choice upgrades. In my experience, a TE only really needs the following;
Front DCJ's
One-piece motor mount
Hard suspension plastics
1.5 suspension block on the FR position
Extra delrin shims for the shocks (for the single o-ring, but you could use normal shims for this too)
For older cars, I'd add the V2 steering rack to that list, and that's it. Both types of shocks work fine, my TE has RCM's and my other car the RCXX's... can't tell much difference!
That's it, not really a lot of parts. Yes I have a few custom bits and extras on my TE (steering mod, top deck with a front brace, home made servo mount, VBC plastic gears in the diff), but they aren't necessarily must haves, just things I've worked on. Oh, and I don't use Serpent springs, but Ride and HPI's, but that's a personal preference thing.
So certainly can be competitive with the old car... and the fact the new parts will fit to the old relatively easy is a bonus. I do intend to make a test when my new vehicle arrives, and test out old vs new, and if possible, try the old (long) shocks on the new car, and see what the difference is... if I get the time that is!
Ed
Front DCJ's
One-piece motor mount
Hard suspension plastics
1.5 suspension block on the FR position
Extra delrin shims for the shocks (for the single o-ring, but you could use normal shims for this too)
For older cars, I'd add the V2 steering rack to that list, and that's it. Both types of shocks work fine, my TE has RCM's and my other car the RCXX's... can't tell much difference!
That's it, not really a lot of parts. Yes I have a few custom bits and extras on my TE (steering mod, top deck with a front brace, home made servo mount, VBC plastic gears in the diff), but they aren't necessarily must haves, just things I've worked on. Oh, and I don't use Serpent springs, but Ride and HPI's, but that's a personal preference thing.
So certainly can be competitive with the old car... and the fact the new parts will fit to the old relatively easy is a bonus. I do intend to make a test when my new vehicle arrives, and test out old vs new, and if possible, try the old (long) shocks on the new car, and see what the difference is... if I get the time that is!
Ed
Having a Car that performs exactly as good on the track as the opposition presents no opportunity and in a race.
A race has phases
GETTING GOIN
KEEPING GOIN
BE THEIR AT THE END
CROSS THE LINE FIRST (optional)
You now have to add don't hurt the batteries and have the best tires for the last minute to the list and your loo kin up the pointy end of the race
and for that the serpent has surpassed all the other Chassis we've owned
( YEP WERE UP TO 3 ALREADY)....Even the old one drops into stock or 21.5 and halls arse and its got no bling bits on it at all except springs
yes we will get the new car but theirs nothing wrong with it previous generation
Regards Andrew
Last edited by JAM Racing; 01-27-2013 at 12:33 PM. Reason: typo
01-27-2013, 02:40 PM
#5079
Our track is around 140 metres or 460 feet in length. I am currently running a gear ratio of 3.02 and a roll out of 65.47 and yes I am running a fan on the motor. I was getting temps up around 80 to 85 C (176 to 185 F) so the last time we raced, I used two fans, one blowing the other sucking, to move air through the motor and I dropped the timing back from 40 degrees to about 35 degrees. Doing this I managed to bring the temps down to what I feel are acceptable ie around 65 C (150 F). However, I was still not fast enough in a straight line indicating I need to gear up some more which in turn will raise the temps again. I also recently pulled down the motor and cleaned it and lightly oiled the bearings as I thought the lack of performance might have been due to dirt in the motor and / or bearings. The driveline is free and it's probably only been run for a total of 3 hours or so since I last pulled the car down and cleaned / replaced all the bearings.
So, what do you think? Am I being too cautious as regards the motor temps maybe? I'm thinking of getting a new rotor for the motor to see if that cures the problem.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
01-27-2013, 05:17 PM
#5081
I was getting temps up around 80 to 85 C (176 to 185 F) so the last time we raced, I used two fans, one blowing the other sucking, to move air through the motor and I dropped the timing back from 40 degrees to about 35 degrees. Doing this I managed to bring the temps down to what I feel are acceptable ie around 65 C (150 F).
So, what do you think? Am I being too cautious as regards the motor temps maybe? I'm thinking of getting a new rotor for the motor to see if that cures the problem.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
So, what do you think? Am I being too cautious as regards the motor temps maybe? I'm thinking of getting a new rotor for the motor to see if that cures the problem.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
As for old vs new, I'm itching to get my hands on the new car but I am with others on this thread in saying the old car is still very good. Ive got an original s411 still not TE with a V2 motor mount, 1.5 fr toe block, dcj's and a cut top deck that's it. RCCX shocks are better than the RCM IMO as once built right they let little to no air in them. I hope they design a super short RCCX for us to buy.
As for set up I have found going to ride red springs all round has been a massive jump in corner speed and handling and I persisted with the serpent springs for a long time. I have one of ed's cut top decks which i think has helped balance the front and rear out a lot and suggest anyone running the old std top deck to break out the Dremel.. I had the local awesomatix driving state champ struggling to get away from me at yesterday's practice day and he can usually gap me easily. I wish serpent had an easy way to fill in set up sheets and post them like X-ray does. It's the only thing I now miss a bout that brand.
The other thing I love about this Car is the even tyre wear it generates. I am getting zero ring of death on the fronts and around 20 runs on tyres before a noticeable drop in lap times. I have new boots for this coming weeks start to the club champs so its going to be an exciting weekend coming up. Will be even more interesting if I get the new ride this Friday
01-27-2013, 11:05 PM
#5082
As for old vs new, I'm itching to get my hands on the new car but I am with others on this thread in saying the old car is still very good. Ive got an original s411 still not TE with a V2 motor mount, 1.5 fr toe block, dcj's and a cut top deck that's it. RCCX shocks are better than the RCM IMO as once built right they let little to no air in them. I hope they design a super short RCCX for us to buy.
As for set up I have found going to ride red springs all round has been a massive jump in corner speed and handling and I persisted with the serpent springs for a long time. I have one of ed's cut top decks which i think has helped balance the front and rear out a lot and suggest anyone running the old std top deck to break out the Dremel.. I had the local awesomatix driving state champ struggling to get away from me at yesterday's practice day and he can usually gap me easily. I wish serpent had an easy way to fill in set up sheets and post them like X-ray does. It's the only thing I now miss a bout that brand.
The other thing I love about this Car is the even tyre wear it generates. I am getting zero ring of death on the fronts and around 20 runs on tyres before a noticeable drop in lap times. I have new boots for this coming weeks start to the club champs so its going to be an exciting weekend coming up. Will be even more interesting if I get the new ride this Friday
As for set up I have found going to ride red springs all round has been a massive jump in corner speed and handling and I persisted with the serpent springs for a long time. I have one of ed's cut top decks which i think has helped balance the front and rear out a lot and suggest anyone running the old std top deck to break out the Dremel.. I had the local awesomatix driving state champ struggling to get away from me at yesterday's practice day and he can usually gap me easily. I wish serpent had an easy way to fill in set up sheets and post them like X-ray does. It's the only thing I now miss a bout that brand.
The other thing I love about this Car is the even tyre wear it generates. I am getting zero ring of death on the fronts and around 20 runs on tyres before a noticeable drop in lap times. I have new boots for this coming weeks start to the club champs so its going to be an exciting weekend coming up. Will be even more interesting if I get the new ride this Friday
01-28-2013, 04:12 AM
#5083
Here is the track Patto is talking about. 1/8th gas track on the side of a hill with big off camber sections. Certainly a challenging track to set the car up on!
01-28-2013, 08:52 AM
#5084
Hi Jonny. Thank you for the reply.
Our track is around 140 metres or 460 feet in length. I am currently running a gear ratio of 3.02 and a roll out of 65.47 and yes I am running a fan on the motor. I was getting temps up around 80 to 85 C (176 to 185 F) so the last time we raced, I used two fans, one blowing the other sucking, to move air through the motor and I dropped the timing back from 40 degrees to about 35 degrees. Doing this I managed to bring the temps down to what I feel are acceptable ie around 65 C (150 F). However, I was still not fast enough in a straight line indicating I need to gear up some more which in turn will raise the temps again. I also recently pulled down the motor and cleaned it and lightly oiled the bearings as I thought the lack of performance might have been due to dirt in the motor and / or bearings. The driveline is free and it's probably only been run for a total of 3 hours or so since I last pulled the car down and cleaned / replaced all the bearings.
So, what do you think? Am I being too cautious as regards the motor temps maybe? I'm thinking of getting a new rotor for the motor to see if that cures the problem.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
Our track is around 140 metres or 460 feet in length. I am currently running a gear ratio of 3.02 and a roll out of 65.47 and yes I am running a fan on the motor. I was getting temps up around 80 to 85 C (176 to 185 F) so the last time we raced, I used two fans, one blowing the other sucking, to move air through the motor and I dropped the timing back from 40 degrees to about 35 degrees. Doing this I managed to bring the temps down to what I feel are acceptable ie around 65 C (150 F). However, I was still not fast enough in a straight line indicating I need to gear up some more which in turn will raise the temps again. I also recently pulled down the motor and cleaned it and lightly oiled the bearings as I thought the lack of performance might have been due to dirt in the motor and / or bearings. The driveline is free and it's probably only been run for a total of 3 hours or so since I last pulled the car down and cleaned / replaced all the bearings.
So, what do you think? Am I being too cautious as regards the motor temps maybe? I'm thinking of getting a new rotor for the motor to see if that cures the problem.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Cheers
IMO any motor temp consistently under 85c is fine and I usually run outdoors on a track that is anywhere from 45 to 65 c with air temps ranging from 25 to 36c. I am running the D3.5 which handles a bit more temp and I'm running that at mid 90c all the time with a 2 fan set up but with both fans blowing air at the motor. If your temps are consistent and you are not fading at the end of the run then your fine. Max timing and fdr is not always a good thing and having good speed and rip out the corners with no fade at the end of the run is most important if you are aiming for wins. We have a guy here locally who pushes his motors to the extreme(100c plus temp) and no one can catch him for 3 minutes. Then he starts to fade and unless he has had a very clean first 3 minutes everyone catches him back up in the last 3 minutes. He has also burned up 1 motor in 4 club days but with podium finishes he doesn't care about burning them up.