12LikesT.O.P Racing's Rebel 1/12th scale
02-20-2012, 06:03 PM
#901
Im on the verge of buying racer_x_1's Rebel this week and already have a list of mods for it. I saw one guy using the BMI graphite side links... Are the AE still preferable?
Also, where can I get this part? (see pic) How much?
Also, where can I get this part? (see pic) How much?
Last edited by iVTEC4LIFE; 02-20-2012 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Add txt
02-20-2012, 07:19 PM
#902
Tech Adept
TOP USA has every part you need in stock ready to ship.
02-20-2012, 08:42 PM
#903
I thought i looked there... didnt see it... ill look again....
Nope. I see lots of knick knacks posted but no major components. Do you happen to know the part number?
Okay, i found the p/n's on the jp site!! I guess I'll just email top usa for prices
Nope. I see lots of knick knacks posted but no major components. Do you happen to know the part number?
Okay, i found the p/n's on the jp site!! I guess I'll just email top usa for prices
Last edited by iVTEC4LIFE; 02-20-2012 at 09:30 PM. Reason: add txt... again
02-21-2012, 05:41 AM
#904
1. You adjust rear droop with the shock by loosening or tightening the ball cup on the pod side of the shock. To measure rear droop lift car by shock and how far it lifts is your droop which is average .5mm - 1mm
2. I believe that was originally intended for droop but now most use it to keep upper arm pin in place. Some put slightly larger set screw so upper arm pin does not fall out otherwise front droop is measured between the steering block and lower arm usually around .1mm to .25mm
3. Put a little inside and coat lightly then push in and clean off any extra that squirts out of hole
4. For stock 16 is fine maybe 14 for mod?
Here is the TOP rebel setup page
Here is a great thread with a buttload of 12th info
2. I believe that was originally intended for droop but now most use it to keep upper arm pin in place. Some put slightly larger set screw so upper arm pin does not fall out otherwise front droop is measured between the steering block and lower arm usually around .1mm to .25mm
3. Put a little inside and coat lightly then push in and clean off any extra that squirts out of hole
4. For stock 16 is fine maybe 14 for mod?
Here is the TOP rebel setup page
Here is a great thread with a buttload of 12th info
thanks for the reply.
I'm still unsure how to measure the droop front & rear (pics or video would be a great help) but I will try figure it out. At the moment, I do have a few more questions.
If the ball cup is use to adjust the droop and ride height is adjusted using spacer, what is the center spring for?
Adjusting the spring tension would somehow affect the droop or ride height right?
And how do i make adjustment on the side spring and purpose of it?
02-23-2012, 12:56 AM
#905
Okay, I'm also new to the Rebel. It's in the mail actually!!
So, I'm no expert but as I recall the center spring "tension" can't be changed. The spring tension is constant. The only way to change the tension is to change the spring.
The spring is for dampening. It's tension keeps the rear pod at the set ride height and keeps the rear end planted on the ground.
A stronger spring would affect the droop/ride height only by forcing the chassis back to it's set position more quickly.
The side springs have the same story. Only by changing them out can you change the tension. I believe their job is to control side to side roll. Switching to a harder spring there would have the effect of making the car turn more sharply and give it a tendency to oversteer.
Again, on 1/12 scale pan cars, I'm a newbie so I'm basing all this on years of offroad knowledge and real world knowledge.
I think I'm pretty accurate, but these other guys can be more specific.
Good luck with your car!
So, I'm no expert but as I recall the center spring "tension" can't be changed. The spring tension is constant. The only way to change the tension is to change the spring.
The spring is for dampening. It's tension keeps the rear pod at the set ride height and keeps the rear end planted on the ground.
A stronger spring would affect the droop/ride height only by forcing the chassis back to it's set position more quickly.
The side springs have the same story. Only by changing them out can you change the tension. I believe their job is to control side to side roll. Switching to a harder spring there would have the effect of making the car turn more sharply and give it a tendency to oversteer.
Again, on 1/12 scale pan cars, I'm a newbie so I'm basing all this on years of offroad knowledge and real world knowledge.
I think I'm pretty accurate, but these other guys can be more specific.
Good luck with your car!
02-23-2012, 03:48 AM
#906
Okay, I'm also new to the Rebel. It's in the mail actually!!
So, I'm no expert but as I recall the center spring "tension" can't be changed. The spring tension is constant. The only way to change the tension is to change the spring.
The spring is for dampening. It's tension keeps the rear pod at the set ride height and keeps the rear end planted on the ground.
A stronger spring would affect the droop/ride height only by forcing the chassis back to it's set position more quickly.
The side springs have the same story. Only by changing them out can you change the tension. I believe their job is to control side to side roll. Switching to a harder spring there would have the effect of making the car turn more sharply and give it a tendency to oversteer.
Again, on 1/12 scale pan cars, I'm a newbie so I'm basing all this on years of offroad knowledge and real world knowledge.
I think I'm pretty accurate, but these other guys can be more specific.
Good luck with your car!
So, I'm no expert but as I recall the center spring "tension" can't be changed. The spring tension is constant. The only way to change the tension is to change the spring.
The spring is for dampening. It's tension keeps the rear pod at the set ride height and keeps the rear end planted on the ground.
A stronger spring would affect the droop/ride height only by forcing the chassis back to it's set position more quickly.
The side springs have the same story. Only by changing them out can you change the tension. I believe their job is to control side to side roll. Switching to a harder spring there would have the effect of making the car turn more sharply and give it a tendency to oversteer.
Again, on 1/12 scale pan cars, I'm a newbie so I'm basing all this on years of offroad knowledge and real world knowledge.
I think I'm pretty accurate, but these other guys can be more specific.
Good luck with your car!
Thanks for the sharing.
I'm sure you will enjoy your new ride, the same as I do.
I came from a touring background. There are a lot of people driving touring cars and lots of video on basic set up. So it was easy when I first started out with it.
1/12 however is the opposite story. I can't find any how to video on it and there are only handful of people driving it in my area. Hopefully some pros here would create a video for 1/12 newbie.
02-24-2012, 04:50 AM
#909
02-24-2012, 07:58 AM
#910
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
By tension, they are simply referring to spring preload. The center spring preload affects the center-main chassis ride height, or "chassis sag". Preloading the spring more will raise the center of the chassis... you generally measure this right in front of the rear pod.
Droop is measured at the back of the rear pod. It is adjusted by changing the overall length of the center shock. Lengthen the shock by unscrewing the ball cup from the shock end, and this will increase rear pod droop.
I use a set of 1/10 Sedan droop blocks/gauge. While a gauge with finer resolution is ideal, the Hudy gauge w/ the .2mm increments only goes down to +2mm or so. You will need a gauge that goes down to -2mm or below... The gauge I use goes to -3mm. So you basically have to eyeball the intermediate increments. For example, if you want to set the rear pod droop to -1.5mm, change the center shock length until you end up right at -1mm on the gauge... then carefully unscrew the ball cup a little further, in 1/4 turn increments, until you get the rear pod roughly half way between the -2 and -1mm steps on the droop gauge.
That is how I measure droop at least. It would be great if someone came out with a 12th scale specific droop gauge that had .2mm resolution, but went down to -3-4mm.
Edit: In regards to the center spring, it is important to note that for a given amount of preload, a stiffer spring will result in a higher center chassis ride height.
Also... preloading the side springs has a slightly different effect than the center spring, since the side springs are a progressive rate design. With a linear rate spring, preload has little to no effect on the overall rate of the spring. But with a progressive spring that is not true. This is why preloading the side springs is often used as a tuning tool, not just for adjusting chassis tweak.
Droop is measured at the back of the rear pod. It is adjusted by changing the overall length of the center shock. Lengthen the shock by unscrewing the ball cup from the shock end, and this will increase rear pod droop.
I use a set of 1/10 Sedan droop blocks/gauge. While a gauge with finer resolution is ideal, the Hudy gauge w/ the .2mm increments only goes down to +2mm or so. You will need a gauge that goes down to -2mm or below... The gauge I use goes to -3mm. So you basically have to eyeball the intermediate increments. For example, if you want to set the rear pod droop to -1.5mm, change the center shock length until you end up right at -1mm on the gauge... then carefully unscrew the ball cup a little further, in 1/4 turn increments, until you get the rear pod roughly half way between the -2 and -1mm steps on the droop gauge.
That is how I measure droop at least. It would be great if someone came out with a 12th scale specific droop gauge that had .2mm resolution, but went down to -3-4mm.
Edit: In regards to the center spring, it is important to note that for a given amount of preload, a stiffer spring will result in a higher center chassis ride height.
Also... preloading the side springs has a slightly different effect than the center spring, since the side springs are a progressive rate design. With a linear rate spring, preload has little to no effect on the overall rate of the spring. But with a progressive spring that is not true. This is why preloading the side springs is often used as a tuning tool, not just for adjusting chassis tweak.
02-24-2012, 08:33 AM
#911
By tension, they are simply referring to spring preload. The center spring preload affects the center-main chassis ride height, or "chassis sag". Preloading the spring more will raise the center of the chassis... you generally measure this right in front of the rear pod.
Droop is measured at the back of the rear pod. It is adjusted by changing the overall length of the center shock. Lengthen the shock by unscrewing the ball cup from the shock end, and this will increase rear pod droop.
I use a set of 1/10 Sedan droop blocks/gauge. While a gauge with finer resolution is ideal, the Hudy gauge w/ the .2mm increments only goes down to +2mm or so. You will need a gauge that goes down to -2mm or below... The gauge I use goes to -3mm. So you basically have to eyeball the intermediate increments. For example, if you want to set the rear pod droop to -1.5mm, change the center shock length until you end up right at -1mm on the gauge... then carefully unscrew the ball cup a little further, in 1/4 turn increments, until you get the rear pod roughly half way between the -2 and -1mm steps on the droop gauge.
That is how I measure droop at least. It would be great if someone came out with a 12th scale specific droop gauge that had .2mm resolution, but went down to -3-4mm.
Edit: In regards to the center spring, it is important to note that for a given amount of preload, a stiffer spring will result in a higher center chassis ride height.
Also... preloading the side springs has a slightly different effect than the center spring, since the side springs are a progressive rate design. With a linear rate spring, preload has little to no effect on the overall rate of the spring. But with a progressive spring that is not true. This is why preloading the side springs is often used as a tuning tool, not just for adjusting chassis tweak.
Droop is measured at the back of the rear pod. It is adjusted by changing the overall length of the center shock. Lengthen the shock by unscrewing the ball cup from the shock end, and this will increase rear pod droop.
I use a set of 1/10 Sedan droop blocks/gauge. While a gauge with finer resolution is ideal, the Hudy gauge w/ the .2mm increments only goes down to +2mm or so. You will need a gauge that goes down to -2mm or below... The gauge I use goes to -3mm. So you basically have to eyeball the intermediate increments. For example, if you want to set the rear pod droop to -1.5mm, change the center shock length until you end up right at -1mm on the gauge... then carefully unscrew the ball cup a little further, in 1/4 turn increments, until you get the rear pod roughly half way between the -2 and -1mm steps on the droop gauge.
That is how I measure droop at least. It would be great if someone came out with a 12th scale specific droop gauge that had .2mm resolution, but went down to -3-4mm.
Edit: In regards to the center spring, it is important to note that for a given amount of preload, a stiffer spring will result in a higher center chassis ride height.
Also... preloading the side springs has a slightly different effect than the center spring, since the side springs are a progressive rate design. With a linear rate spring, preload has little to no effect on the overall rate of the spring. But with a progressive spring that is not true. This is why preloading the side springs is often used as a tuning tool, not just for adjusting chassis tweak.
I think is the best explanation. Now I have better picture of how to measure the rear droop.
Thanks.
02-24-2012, 03:40 PM
#913
How about the front droop?
02-24-2012, 04:41 PM
#914
Put the front of car on flat surface with ft facing you
Notice if there is any sag in ft suspension
You can tell if there is sag when you lift up the ft of chassis and tires don't immediately lift. Like my last post says this ft droop is seen inbetween the bottom of steering block and lower arm. It will be very slight like .1mm - .25mm so get used to feeling the slight sag in ft suspension
Basically like rear droop, the ft droop allows the front suspension to give when experiencing bumps. It also might be interpreted that front droop also might keep the inside wheel down around corners a tiny bit but mostly my experience is that droop in pan car helps take bumps better
The opposite of ft droop would be having the ft springs pre-loaded a little so that there is literally no droop
Hope that helps
Notice if there is any sag in ft suspension
You can tell if there is sag when you lift up the ft of chassis and tires don't immediately lift. Like my last post says this ft droop is seen inbetween the bottom of steering block and lower arm. It will be very slight like .1mm - .25mm so get used to feeling the slight sag in ft suspension
Basically like rear droop, the ft droop allows the front suspension to give when experiencing bumps. It also might be interpreted that front droop also might keep the inside wheel down around corners a tiny bit but mostly my experience is that droop in pan car helps take bumps better
The opposite of ft droop would be having the ft springs pre-loaded a little so that there is literally no droop
Hope that helps
02-24-2012, 10:45 PM
#915
Put the front of car on flat surface with ft facing you
Notice if there is any sag in ft suspension
You can tell if there is sag when you lift up the ft of chassis and tires don't immediately lift. Like my last post says this ft droop is seen inbetween the bottom of steering block and lower arm. It will be very slight like .1mm - .25mm so get used to feeling the slight sag in ft suspension
Basically like rear droop, the ft droop allows the front suspension to give when experiencing bumps. It also might be interpreted that front droop also might keep the inside wheel down around corners a tiny bit but mostly my experience is that droop in pan car helps take bumps better
The opposite of ft droop would be having the ft springs pre-loaded a little so that there is literally no droop
Hope that helps
Notice if there is any sag in ft suspension
You can tell if there is sag when you lift up the ft of chassis and tires don't immediately lift. Like my last post says this ft droop is seen inbetween the bottom of steering block and lower arm. It will be very slight like .1mm - .25mm so get used to feeling the slight sag in ft suspension
Basically like rear droop, the ft droop allows the front suspension to give when experiencing bumps. It also might be interpreted that front droop also might keep the inside wheel down around corners a tiny bit but mostly my experience is that droop in pan car helps take bumps better
The opposite of ft droop would be having the ft springs pre-loaded a little so that there is literally no droop
Hope that helps
Thanks for the info. So basically the front droop is mainly by feeling and eyeballing only.