120LikesTAMIYA M-06 Thread
12-02-2016, 07:33 AM
#1878
Tamiya Porsche 911 GT2 on TA02SW body which has a 236 wheel base.. An M06L is 239..
http://www.tamiyausa.com/items/radio...2-racing-47321
http://www.tamiyausa.com/items/radio...2-racing-47321
I've given careful thought to how this would work. The thought is with the HPI 34mm wheels in back with 14mm offset it'll match up well for width. Keeping in mind that the track of the rear wheels is set inward, I think the 3mm wheelbase discrepancy will be minimal. Or spacers on the lower arms. It'll be fun to find out
Last edited by firefoxussr; 12-02-2016 at 07:49 AM.
12-04-2016, 09:57 AM
#1879
As Raman said, it's for a short wheelbase touring car. I've decided the TA02 chassis is going to another build.
I've given careful thought to how this would work. The thought is with the HPI 34mm wheels in back with 14mm offset it'll match up well for width. Keeping in mind that the track of the rear wheels is set inward, I think the 3mm wheelbase discrepancy will be minimal. Or spacers on the lower arms. It'll be fun to find out
I've given careful thought to how this would work. The thought is with the HPI 34mm wheels in back with 14mm offset it'll match up well for width. Keeping in mind that the track of the rear wheels is set inward, I think the 3mm wheelbase discrepancy will be minimal. Or spacers on the lower arms. It'll be fun to find out
Always thought about doing this with the Porsche 930 Tamiya shell, but never came to finish the project so far! If the wheels bring not the full offset, you could maybe use TL01 wishbones to gain track width...
I hope you post some updates next time,
Br,
Matthias
12-04-2016, 10:09 AM
#1880
My carpet set up for tonight was
Front 60 wt with Red (soft) springs, Shimizu Racing 33 with sweep hard insert
Rear 60 wt with Blue (firm) springs, Shimizu Racing 30 with sweep hard insert
Camber front -1 º
Rear -1.5 º
Toe -1 º
Battery - Short LiPo all the way forward.
Sauce - SXT 3.0, full on rear and half on front
There was no race so I basically practiced. I started out with -1º camber all around with 0º toe out. Car was very consistent and appeared that it could easily carry more speed through the turns. So I moved the timing on my motor past the 45º mark and the lap times dropped from 18s to 17s. I next changed the camber and was able to get even lower in the 17s. But was not able to break 17. I next tried a different set of front shocks that had 0,5mm less length than the kit set up (less droop) and that appeared to do the trick.
My best lap time was 16.9 and I was able to hold the throttle at full going from back straight, into sweeper and horse shoe. At each corner entry I would let off the throttle, turn the wheel and get right back on it. Car remained planted throughout the turn.
I also tested the car with a full length LiPo. The weight of the larger battery made the car more edgy and less tossable. I was able to eek out the same 16.9 but found it a bit more difficult.
I also had the top driver / sponsored driver at the track to give my car a go and he was not able to break 16.9 himself. I asked him what he would change, he said.. nothing.. the car is dialed in.. keep doing what you are doing.
He was blown away with the car and the corner entry speed.
Front 60 wt with Red (soft) springs, Shimizu Racing 33 with sweep hard insert
Rear 60 wt with Blue (firm) springs, Shimizu Racing 30 with sweep hard insert
Camber front -1 º
Rear -1.5 º
Toe -1 º
Battery - Short LiPo all the way forward.
Sauce - SXT 3.0, full on rear and half on front
There was no race so I basically practiced. I started out with -1º camber all around with 0º toe out. Car was very consistent and appeared that it could easily carry more speed through the turns. So I moved the timing on my motor past the 45º mark and the lap times dropped from 18s to 17s. I next changed the camber and was able to get even lower in the 17s. But was not able to break 17. I next tried a different set of front shocks that had 0,5mm less length than the kit set up (less droop) and that appeared to do the trick.
My best lap time was 16.9 and I was able to hold the throttle at full going from back straight, into sweeper and horse shoe. At each corner entry I would let off the throttle, turn the wheel and get right back on it. Car remained planted throughout the turn.
I also tested the car with a full length LiPo. The weight of the larger battery made the car more edgy and less tossable. I was able to eek out the same 16.9 but found it a bit more difficult.
I also had the top driver / sponsored driver at the track to give my car a go and he was not able to break 16.9 himself. I asked him what he would change, he said.. nothing.. the car is dialed in.. keep doing what you are doing.
He was blown away with the car and the corner entry speed.
thanks for posting your setup!
Really intersting with the small length change in front, and your choice of tyres! I never tried the shimizu slicks, but I already heard good things about the Mini treaded tires from them. Why do you use Sweep inserts? Because of the 1 pc. design?
And I know you run brushless nowadays, what engine and turns/ESC do you use? We have some discussions in our race class at the moment, I just collect some posibilities about engines and ESC´s, which are usable for M06, too. I find too much torque is maybe not the best option for driveability of the M06, and will favor the FWD´s even more?
Br and fun with the new setup,
Matthias
12-04-2016, 11:48 AM
#1881
Great review Raman,
thanks for posting your setup!
Really intersting with the small length change in front, and your choice of tyres! I never tried the shimizu slicks, but I already heard good things about the Mini treaded tires from them. Why do you use Sweep inserts? Because of the 1 pc. design?
And I know you run brushless nowadays, what engine and turns/ESC do you use? We have some discussions in our race class at the moment, I just collect some posibilities about engines and ESC´s, which are usable for M06, too. I find too much torque is maybe not the best option for driveability of the M06, and will favor the FWD´s even more?
Br and fun with the new setup,
Matthias
thanks for posting your setup!
Really intersting with the small length change in front, and your choice of tyres! I never tried the shimizu slicks, but I already heard good things about the Mini treaded tires from them. Why do you use Sweep inserts? Because of the 1 pc. design?
And I know you run brushless nowadays, what engine and turns/ESC do you use? We have some discussions in our race class at the moment, I just collect some posibilities about engines and ESC´s, which are usable for M06, too. I find too much torque is maybe not the best option for driveability of the M06, and will favor the FWD´s even more?
Br and fun with the new setup,
Matthias
Shimizu tyres comes with an insert which is very soft... the first time I used these tyres, the ring of death appeared after one race. So I switched to sweep.
I use the sweep inserts because of 1 piece design and because they are molded inserts that are available in soft, medium and hard. There are not many brands that offer molded inserts for m chassis.
I use a Novak Impact ESC and Ballistic 21.5 motor.. pretty dated equipment by todays standards. It is a very smooth ESC and highly adjustable.
Tamiya has spec'd Reedy Sonic M3 21.5 for their TCS series and there will be a tcs race here in Vegas this coming April.. so I may have to change motors to jump into that race
12-04-2016, 12:27 PM
#1882
Tag Matthias,
Shimizu tyres comes with an insert which is very soft... the first time I used these tyres, the ring of death appeared after one race. So I switched to sweep.
I use the sweep inserts because of 1 piece design and because they are molded inserts that are available in soft, medium and hard. There are not many brands that offer molded inserts for m chassis.
I use a Novak Impact ESC and Ballistic 21.5 motor.. pretty dated equipment by todays standards. It is a very smooth ESC and highly adjustable.
Tamiya has spec'd Reedy Sonic M3 21.5 for their TCS series and there will be a tcs race here in Vegas this coming April.. so I may have to change motors to jump into that race
Shimizu tyres comes with an insert which is very soft... the first time I used these tyres, the ring of death appeared after one race. So I switched to sweep.
I use the sweep inserts because of 1 piece design and because they are molded inserts that are available in soft, medium and hard. There are not many brands that offer molded inserts for m chassis.
I use a Novak Impact ESC and Ballistic 21.5 motor.. pretty dated equipment by todays standards. It is a very smooth ESC and highly adjustable.
Tamiya has spec'd Reedy Sonic M3 21.5 for their TCS series and there will be a tcs race here in Vegas this coming April.. so I may have to change motors to jump into that race
always good infos from you!
Understand your intention on the tires. Did you ever use the sweep tires, too?
Motorwise I´m confused why M-chassis all over the world are so diverse nowadays. German Eurocup is using 16T Brushless Combo (sensorless), Japan spec they used Lightly tuned brushed motors with 1600NiCad battery, and Tamiya USA using 21,5t Brushless. I don´t see, how a 21,5t with a insane timing, to get a reasonable r.p.m., should make racing more equal.
So we search for something, which is reliable, waterproof and on the market for some years. But it seems hard to find an alternative for the CE4 cup machine, when it comes to prices. As M-chassis is very new for our club and a second class for many racers, not everyone is willing to spend the buck for a good brushless Combo...
Tamiya should produce a sensored brushless motor for M-Chassis, maybe like the Ezrun 13t, but sensored that could be run with the Tamiya TBLE02 ESC, to get a cheap start into brushless.
Sorry for drifting from the M06 themes...
Br,
Matthias
12-04-2016, 12:47 PM
#1883
Mattias,
I have used Sweep tyres.. What I do not like about them is that the bead is larger in diameter than M chassis rims.. so you have to use their 5 spoke rims, which do not look correct on most M chassis bodies since.. majority are vintage.
The tyre itself are decent.. but I find the Shimizu to offer a greater variety of shores and the rubber quality is closer to Sorex
Tamiya USA changed to brushless two years ago (I believe) because there was too much voodoo manipulation with the silver can motors. Some were exceeding 21k rpm
I remember when I first started racing my M06, there were silver can motors that were easily passing me on the straight with the same 21.5 motor I have today. (rated around 15k) To keep up, I ended up turning the motor timing past the 45º mark.
This maybe hard to believe but if my motor appears to have more top end then the field, the next race I turn it down! (My nose did not just grow, I swear!)
I have used Sweep tyres.. What I do not like about them is that the bead is larger in diameter than M chassis rims.. so you have to use their 5 spoke rims, which do not look correct on most M chassis bodies since.. majority are vintage.
The tyre itself are decent.. but I find the Shimizu to offer a greater variety of shores and the rubber quality is closer to Sorex
Tamiya USA changed to brushless two years ago (I believe) because there was too much voodoo manipulation with the silver can motors. Some were exceeding 21k rpm
I remember when I first started racing my M06, there were silver can motors that were easily passing me on the straight with the same 21.5 motor I have today. (rated around 15k) To keep up, I ended up turning the motor timing past the 45º mark.
This maybe hard to believe but if my motor appears to have more top end then the field, the next race I turn it down! (My nose did not just grow, I swear!)
12-05-2016, 04:04 PM
#1884
I have a question which may have been already been asked (sorry in advance).
I have been racing an M05 which I converted to an M05VII for the past 4 seasons with our local club. We have about 10-15 competitors in our "M-Class" race event. We follow TCS rules, yet everyone runs an M05 (or FWD variant, ...I think we have a few M03's that race w/ us). Yet no M06's. I think about 3 or 4 years ago we had several people running M06's. I have to admit I have no experience w/ an M06, in fact until about a month ago I had never seen one up close. I always knew they were rear wheel drive, but assumed since no one ran them at our events that the front wheel drive M05's were just superior cars to race.
So is this true? I ask because I have been serious looking at the M06 and to be honest I like the looks of the chassis layout, the vertical battery placement and what appears to be a lower center of gravity. How does it compare to an M05 as a base to begin with with to make it competitive for racing? My main concern is having the motor so far out behind the rear wheels ...does the rear swing out on hard acceleration (like an F1 tends to do if the diff 'is too tight)?
I have been racing an M05 which I converted to an M05VII for the past 4 seasons with our local club. We have about 10-15 competitors in our "M-Class" race event. We follow TCS rules, yet everyone runs an M05 (or FWD variant, ...I think we have a few M03's that race w/ us). Yet no M06's. I think about 3 or 4 years ago we had several people running M06's. I have to admit I have no experience w/ an M06, in fact until about a month ago I had never seen one up close. I always knew they were rear wheel drive, but assumed since no one ran them at our events that the front wheel drive M05's were just superior cars to race.
So is this true? I ask because I have been serious looking at the M06 and to be honest I like the looks of the chassis layout, the vertical battery placement and what appears to be a lower center of gravity. How does it compare to an M05 as a base to begin with with to make it competitive for racing? My main concern is having the motor so far out behind the rear wheels ...does the rear swing out on hard acceleration (like an F1 tends to do if the diff 'is too tight)?
12-05-2016, 05:46 PM
#1885
With a very hard front diff, the M05 can accelerate just as fast as an M06, and brake harder into a corner. Right now I cannot see a scenario where my M06 will be faster than my M05L.
That said, I'm rebuilding my M06 now and will try the 1-piece hard arms
That said, I'm rebuilding my M06 now and will try the 1-piece hard arms
12-05-2016, 06:01 PM
#1887
Agree, the M06 is faster from a dead stop and accelerating with front wheels straight. But in corners, where there is rolling momentum, M05 pulls very hard (even when leaning). The M06 needs a light diff and diffs out when leaning in a turn... less pull out of a corner
12-05-2016, 06:11 PM
#1888
Er1c,
1. The question is do you want to take the easy route or the hard route. M06 is the harder route
2. Harder because its inferior, No. Harder because it takes finesse to drive it, versus shoot for turn, turn the wheel and punch it
3. Why don't more people run the M06? Because everyone follows the herd and the herd runs M05.
For the first time this year, I have been able to go to the track once a week consistently and it has enabled me to learn make a lot of progress in my set up skills and driving.
A few posts up, I posted the results of my latest set up.. I am able to go full speed through every corner of the track, which is something most say is not possible with an M06.
F1 has come a long way and they are pretty quick on the track. So if more pro drivers used this chassis and Tamiya continued to develop and improve it, I think it could surpass its FWD cousin
1. The question is do you want to take the easy route or the hard route. M06 is the harder route
2. Harder because its inferior, No. Harder because it takes finesse to drive it, versus shoot for turn, turn the wheel and punch it
3. Why don't more people run the M06? Because everyone follows the herd and the herd runs M05.
For the first time this year, I have been able to go to the track once a week consistently and it has enabled me to learn make a lot of progress in my set up skills and driving.
A few posts up, I posted the results of my latest set up.. I am able to go full speed through every corner of the track, which is something most say is not possible with an M06.
F1 has come a long way and they are pretty quick on the track. So if more pro drivers used this chassis and Tamiya continued to develop and improve it, I think it could surpass its FWD cousin
12-05-2016, 06:13 PM
#1889
Agree, the M06 is faster from a dead stop and accelerating with front wheels straight. But in corners, where there is rolling momentum, M05 pulls very hard (even when leaning). The M06 needs a light diff and diffs out when leaning in a turn... less pull out of a corner
12-06-2016, 01:36 AM
#1890
For me the big problem was contact during races, M06 always came out worse.