6280LikesUSGT
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10-31-2014, 12:22 PM
#3256
I have been watching this thread lately with more than a passing curiosity. As a racer and a body manufacturer, I thought there should be more definition in the USGT body rules at first too.
So, I went back to the first post in June of 2010 when USGT was started. This is what the rules stated, with no other mention of visual intention....
Any 190mm or 200mm body….body can be any body that’s not on the ROAR T2 body list.
Nowhere does it state production based cars, nor does it eliminate exotic or prototype cars. The key words are "not on the ROAR T2 body list". I'm guessing this means no distorted, made-up shapes for RC racing bodies, but realistic bodies that represent actual cars. Also I assume the class is oriented to Touring cars, not Pan Cars. So the LMP bodies are questionable because of the chassis' they fit, not their looks.
The designation "GT" means "Grand Touring", which basically means "Pavement Road Racing Cars". We are talking about racing here, not parallel parking. The GT designation has been used in many ways over the years, even in conjunction with prototypes...example: GTP in the 80s....Grand Touring Prototypes.
Our Daytona Prototypes could easily be designated Daytona GT Prototypes. As I've stated before, we made these bodies to look like existing actual cars and fit the standard Touring Car chassis'. We had no intentions of making a more aerodynamic body for a specific class. It just happened to fit the USGT rules and spirit of a realistic scale sports car.
It also seems odd that "US" GT would not allow the Daytona Prototypes since they are true US made Sports Cars and the only RC bodies that have been mentioned in this thread that are 100% made in the U.S.
So, I think Rob and Kevin have had it right all along.
However, remember USGT is not a club you join and you are not forced to go precisely by the rules at your local races. They are guidelines for a fun class of road racing enthusiasts with a lot of variety in the style car you prefer.
Gary McAllister
So, I went back to the first post in June of 2010 when USGT was started. This is what the rules stated, with no other mention of visual intention....
Any 190mm or 200mm body….body can be any body that’s not on the ROAR T2 body list.
Nowhere does it state production based cars, nor does it eliminate exotic or prototype cars. The key words are "not on the ROAR T2 body list". I'm guessing this means no distorted, made-up shapes for RC racing bodies, but realistic bodies that represent actual cars. Also I assume the class is oriented to Touring cars, not Pan Cars. So the LMP bodies are questionable because of the chassis' they fit, not their looks.
The designation "GT" means "Grand Touring", which basically means "Pavement Road Racing Cars". We are talking about racing here, not parallel parking. The GT designation has been used in many ways over the years, even in conjunction with prototypes...example: GTP in the 80s....Grand Touring Prototypes.
Our Daytona Prototypes could easily be designated Daytona GT Prototypes. As I've stated before, we made these bodies to look like existing actual cars and fit the standard Touring Car chassis'. We had no intentions of making a more aerodynamic body for a specific class. It just happened to fit the USGT rules and spirit of a realistic scale sports car.
It also seems odd that "US" GT would not allow the Daytona Prototypes since they are true US made Sports Cars and the only RC bodies that have been mentioned in this thread that are 100% made in the U.S.
So, I think Rob and Kevin have had it right all along.
However, remember USGT is not a club you join and you are not forced to go precisely by the rules at your local races. They are guidelines for a fun class of road racing enthusiasts with a lot of variety in the style car you prefer.
Gary McAllister
i have no problems with how the class is structured now - there isn't one clear body that has advantages over any of the others, its all down to chassis setup and driver...I believe anything that is made for a pancar, shouldn't be allowed in the class - that's just now what the intention was in the beginning... now if someone made one of those LMP chassis for a TC, then that's a whole different ballgame
Last edited by k_bojar; 10-31-2014 at 12:51 PM.
10-31-2014, 12:50 PM
#3257
Well, I don't make the rules, and I don't oversee the class....that's Rob and Kevin's job. I just commented on this conversation.
Personally I don't have a problem with LMP bodies in USGT, but it's impossible to make a realistic LMP body to fit 99% of today's Touring Cars. I also don't have a problem with Daytona Prototypes or LMP cars having a separate class if you have enough racers with an interest in several road racing classes, however most local programs don't have that luxury.
Personally I don't have a problem with LMP bodies in USGT, but it's impossible to make a realistic LMP body to fit 99% of today's Touring Cars. I also don't have a problem with Daytona Prototypes or LMP cars having a separate class if you have enough racers with an interest in several road racing classes, however most local programs don't have that luxury.
10-31-2014, 01:08 PM
#3258
I have been very tempted to mount a body backwards on my USVTA car "just for kicks". The discussion about USGT bodies that "are legal" and/or have a perceived advantage makes me want to mount one backwards on my USGT car.
Also, I agree with what Gary said.
Scott
Also, I agree with what Gary said.
Scott
10-31-2014, 04:15 PM
#3260
I was going to pick up a Kyosho Toyota Prius body because I thought it would be funny to win with it.
But then I thought someone might complain since its a "wedge" shape...
http://www.amain.com/Kyosho-Toyota-P...-190mm/p222129
But then I thought someone might complain since its a "wedge" shape...
http://www.amain.com/Kyosho-Toyota-P...-190mm/p222129
10-31-2014, 06:20 PM
#3262
Sorry Kevin, you lost me with Bazinga.
...
Gary, let me say that my opinion is not a knock on LMP or DP bodies. I love them, I even have one of your DP Corvettes. Hopefully more companies will make other versions of LMP and DP bodies and a class can be designated for those bodies....I'll sign up.
If my memory serves me (and it may be starting to slip at 60) when we raced GTP (todays LMP) in the 80s the GTP bodies felt faster than the GT cars. So, all my commentary is based on real world RC racing....and not just theory.
There may be a few factors that played a part: We ran GTP about 80% of the time, so that may be why we seemed faster because of familiarity. The biggest difference is we didn't have 4 wheel drive, or as big a choice in GT bodies.
Looking forward to seeing the changes in wording, god speed.
10-31-2014, 07:22 PM
#3264
Tech Initiate
I really don't see why this body thing has to be so difficult. If its not a truck, a 12th scale type, or a touring car body run it. I'm sure if a body becomes so dominant that its a must have in order to be competitive, there will be adjustments made to the rules. Until then enjoy yourself and have fun with whichever body you like.
10-31-2014, 08:07 PM
#3265
I used to race a USGT style class a few years ago. The fastest guys that came into the class from time-to-time ran some bodies you wouldn't think stood a chance. Like Honda civic hatch-backs. Or the HPI Firebird Trans-Am. Driving won not the "must have" shell of the month.
11-03-2014, 05:10 AM
#3266
Depends on the track size and layout, but most will start in the 4.0 range. You will probably end up lower (3.5 to 3.8) but it is worth starting at a more conservative gearing. If the track is large, flowing, or both, you may even go lower. I was down to a 3.4 at the last race on an IIC size indoor carpet track and could possibly go down a tad more as temps were not an issue.
11-03-2014, 05:34 AM
#3267
Since everyone is so worried about bodies and can't help people with legit questions...
Depends on the track size and layout, but most will start in the 4.0 range. You will probably end up lower (3.5 to 3.8) but it is worth starting at a more conservative gearing. If the track is large, flowing, or both, you may even go lower. I was down to a 3.4 at the last race on an IIC size indoor carpet track and could possibly go down a tad more as temps were not an issue.
Depends on the track size and layout, but most will start in the 4.0 range. You will probably end up lower (3.5 to 3.8) but it is worth starting at a more conservative gearing. If the track is large, flowing, or both, you may even go lower. I was down to a 3.4 at the last race on an IIC size indoor carpet track and could possibly go down a tad more as temps were not an issue.
11-03-2014, 11:34 AM
#3268
Tech Adept
A list of allowed bodies would definitely help the class. Some of new guys are not sure how to get started in USGT, simply because they cannot figure out what body to get. An allowed list would give new racers a list of bodies to choose from. If nothing else, maybe the community could maintain a recommended body list to help those new racers.
Beyond that, an allowed list would also help the class look like a real racing class. There are some guys who just want to be different for the sake of it. They don't care about a performance advantage. They just want something different for the body, like a minivan, school bus, tractor, clown car, etc. The current rules allow all of those, which are obviously disadvantages performance wise but still popular with some guys who just want to look different. By allowing that clowning around, it makes the class look less like a racing class. An allowed body list could help make sure that USGT looked like a GT style racing class.
Allowing VTA bodies in USGT is another thing that does not help ensure a modern GT looking class. It made sense to allow VTA bodies initially when the USGT class first launched, but the USGT is popular enough today that it really should not allow VTA bodies in USGT anymore. VTA bodies do not offer any performance advantage, so that is not the issue. The issue is trying to make sure USGT looks like a GT class instead of just a run-what-ya-brung class.
An allowed body list could make the difference between being a racing class or just being a basher class.
Beyond that, an allowed list would also help the class look like a real racing class. There are some guys who just want to be different for the sake of it. They don't care about a performance advantage. They just want something different for the body, like a minivan, school bus, tractor, clown car, etc. The current rules allow all of those, which are obviously disadvantages performance wise but still popular with some guys who just want to look different. By allowing that clowning around, it makes the class look less like a racing class. An allowed body list could help make sure that USGT looked like a GT style racing class.
Allowing VTA bodies in USGT is another thing that does not help ensure a modern GT looking class. It made sense to allow VTA bodies initially when the USGT class first launched, but the USGT is popular enough today that it really should not allow VTA bodies in USGT anymore. VTA bodies do not offer any performance advantage, so that is not the issue. The issue is trying to make sure USGT looks like a GT class instead of just a run-what-ya-brung class.
An allowed body list could make the difference between being a racing class or just being a basher class.
11-03-2014, 11:48 AM
#3269
Allowing VTA bodies in USGT is another thing that does not help ensure a modern GT looking class. It made sense to allow VTA bodies initially when the USGT class first launched, but the USGT is popular enough today that it really should not allow VTA bodies in USGT anymore. VTA bodies do not offer any performance advantage, so that is not the issue. The issue is trying to make sure USGT looks like a GT class instead of just a run-what-ya-brung class.
