Schumacher Corner
04-15-2008, 12:46 PM
Tech Initiate
Chirag,
I agree with above, the height of the bulkheads is tight indeed, but it can be done.
For my car, I bought one pair of Schumacher lipo locator plates (U3271) and cut them in half using a Dremel, this is then enough for 2 lipo's if you're tight like me
. I then glued the locator half in the 2nd and 5th cell slots on the outside using a spot of superglue and then Shoe Goo. The rest of the slots are filled with thin strips of lead totalling 44grams.
There is certainly a knack to getting it in and out - the rear bulkhead does appear to have scratched the lipo where I've had to angle it to get it out so I might have to crack out the Dremel again. I don't think a whole locator plate would work due to the shape of it preventing it from getting into the slot and then sliding across.
I agree with above, the height of the bulkheads is tight indeed, but it can be done.
For my car, I bought one pair of Schumacher lipo locator plates (U3271) and cut them in half using a Dremel, this is then enough for 2 lipo's if you're tight like me
. I then glued the locator half in the 2nd and 5th cell slots on the outside using a spot of superglue and then Shoe Goo. The rest of the slots are filled with thin strips of lead totalling 44grams.There is certainly a knack to getting it in and out - the rear bulkhead does appear to have scratched the lipo where I've had to angle it to get it out so I might have to crack out the Dremel again. I don't think a whole locator plate would work due to the shape of it preventing it from getting into the slot and then sliding across.
04-15-2008, 01:07 PM
Adam Baily/SchUSA- You got PM
04-15-2008, 06:11 PM
Tech Master
iTrader: (80)
What is the internal drive ratio for the Mi3?
04-15-2008, 06:18 PM
1.8
: )
: )
04-15-2008, 06:55 PM
I'm looking for MI3 medium rear and front arm...where can I get those?
part #U3250
U 3252
U 3249
U 3251
part #U3250
U 3252
U 3249
U 3251
04-15-2008, 07:03 PM
04-15-2008, 07:15 PM
My Mi3 arrives today! I am itching to get out of work so that I can go home and get it setup to race tomorrow.
I am looking at getting some CORE 5000 lipo packs. I currently use Yeah Racing 3200 lipo packs. What is the height of a CORE 5000 pack? Is it less than 0.9 inches? I plan on using a PPDBillet.com steel tray for additional weight underneath the battery. They have the following info on their website:
Schumacher Mi3 and XRay T208 with low profile batteries .900" max. height.
Plate footprint .035 x 1.96 x 5.4
Any help would be appreciated.
Chirag
I am looking at getting some CORE 5000 lipo packs. I currently use Yeah Racing 3200 lipo packs. What is the height of a CORE 5000 pack? Is it less than 0.9 inches? I plan on using a PPDBillet.com steel tray for additional weight underneath the battery. They have the following info on their website:
Schumacher Mi3 and XRay T208 with low profile batteries .900" max. height.
Plate footprint .035 x 1.96 x 5.4
Any help would be appreciated.
Chirag
04-15-2008, 07:21 PM
04-15-2008, 08:32 PM
Franko has gotten himself an MI3!!! WHOA!! That's a huge step for him
But congrats anyhow Franko; can't wait for ya out there
But congrats anyhow Franko; can't wait for ya out there
04-15-2008, 08:43 PM
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
hey guys got 2 problems
is there a way to get an orion 3200 pack to fit in the mi3?
also my drive train has a tight spot when u turn it over by the axles what could cause this and how do i work out where tha problem is?
cheers
is there a way to get an orion 3200 pack to fit in the mi3?
also my drive train has a tight spot when u turn it over by the axles what could cause this and how do i work out where tha problem is?
cheers
04-15-2008, 09:17 PM
A team driver emailed me about Ackermann adjustments on the Mi3 so I figured I would post this for all to see.
The Mi3 has a lot going on with the steering rack. There are 3 adjustments:
1. Steering velocity ratio - This is how fast the wheels move compared to the servo output arm. Most cars are 1:1. The Mi3 is 1:1 with the shortest "center track rod", aka steering bell crank. As you go to longer rods the wheels start to turn further and faster than the servo output arms moves. The longer rods are best for carpet foam tires where you can use the fast steering. On rubber tires the long rods move the wheels too fast and can make the front of the car push by going beyond a rubber tire ability to stick and comply with a steering input.
2. Ackerman - All center track rods have some degree of Ackermann. The narrow one have less total Ackermann and the wider ones have the most. On carpet with foam tires you want as little Ackermann as possible. With too much Ackermann on foam the inside tire will turn too much when cornering and make the car do weird stuff like lose corner speed or grab and loop out mid corner. Ackerman is used more with rubber tires. On big flowing tracks you want less Ackermann and on tight tracks with a lot of low speed corners you want more.
3. Ackermann rate - This is how the Ackermann rolls in through the travel. This is controlled by the center track rod fore and aft adjustment on the plate it attaches to. If the track rod is forward and the tie rods angle back from the center track rod to the steering spindles the Ackermann will start right off center and come in with a linear fashion. If the rods are parallel or angled from the center track rod forward to the steering spindles the Ackermann with be very little off center and gradually roll in towards the end of steering travel. The more the rods angle forward the less off center Ackermann you get and the more aggressively it comes in late in the steering travel. On foam tires a variety of settings will work as you generally run narrow center track rods with little Ackermann. With rubber tire PW and I always like running the shortest center track rod pretty far back. This would yield little Ackermann off center for the flowing sections where you used very little steering input but would let the Ackermann kick in for low speed corners.
As far as asphalt setups I have not found a better starting setup than PW's Kissimmee big track setup. It works everywhere on all size tracks.
The only changes I made are:
I drill a center hole for the ball stud in the steering spindle arm. The stock forward hole is too twitchy and the rear hole is too lazy.
35wt oil front and rear with 2hole pistons drilled to 1.2mm (3/64"). The bigger hole pistons make the car feel more responsive without the dartyness of 30wt.
Alloy 1* rear hub carriers. These have a HUGE positive effect on mid corner and exit steering by increasing rotation. I reduce the rear inboard toe spacers so I would with 2.75* total rear toe per side.
2mm rear roll center spacers between the lower arm suspension mounting blocks. This is 1mm lower than PW's big track setup calls for. I did it to improve corner entry rear side bite.
With this setup all I change for any asphalt track is rear shock angle (stand up a hole for more rear traction and less rotation or lay them down all the way for more rotation and less rear traction) and rear wheel base (longer for more rear traction and shorter for less).
Ive been trying to get any info on which steering setup for the mi3 has how much Ackermann and nobody seems to have an answer. Do you happen to know what the width of the rack and length do? Most of the cars are running a narrow long setup.
1. Steering velocity ratio - This is how fast the wheels move compared to the servo output arm. Most cars are 1:1. The Mi3 is 1:1 with the shortest "center track rod", aka steering bell crank. As you go to longer rods the wheels start to turn further and faster than the servo output arms moves. The longer rods are best for carpet foam tires where you can use the fast steering. On rubber tires the long rods move the wheels too fast and can make the front of the car push by going beyond a rubber tire ability to stick and comply with a steering input.
2. Ackerman - All center track rods have some degree of Ackermann. The narrow one have less total Ackermann and the wider ones have the most. On carpet with foam tires you want as little Ackermann as possible. With too much Ackermann on foam the inside tire will turn too much when cornering and make the car do weird stuff like lose corner speed or grab and loop out mid corner. Ackerman is used more with rubber tires. On big flowing tracks you want less Ackermann and on tight tracks with a lot of low speed corners you want more.
3. Ackermann rate - This is how the Ackermann rolls in through the travel. This is controlled by the center track rod fore and aft adjustment on the plate it attaches to. If the track rod is forward and the tie rods angle back from the center track rod to the steering spindles the Ackermann will start right off center and come in with a linear fashion. If the rods are parallel or angled from the center track rod forward to the steering spindles the Ackermann with be very little off center and gradually roll in towards the end of steering travel. The more the rods angle forward the less off center Ackermann you get and the more aggressively it comes in late in the steering travel. On foam tires a variety of settings will work as you generally run narrow center track rods with little Ackermann. With rubber tire PW and I always like running the shortest center track rod pretty far back. This would yield little Ackermann off center for the flowing sections where you used very little steering input but would let the Ackermann kick in for low speed corners.
As far as asphalt setups I have not found a better starting setup than PW's Kissimmee big track setup. It works everywhere on all size tracks.
The only changes I made are:
I drill a center hole for the ball stud in the steering spindle arm. The stock forward hole is too twitchy and the rear hole is too lazy.
35wt oil front and rear with 2hole pistons drilled to 1.2mm (3/64"). The bigger hole pistons make the car feel more responsive without the dartyness of 30wt.
Alloy 1* rear hub carriers. These have a HUGE positive effect on mid corner and exit steering by increasing rotation. I reduce the rear inboard toe spacers so I would with 2.75* total rear toe per side.
2mm rear roll center spacers between the lower arm suspension mounting blocks. This is 1mm lower than PW's big track setup calls for. I did it to improve corner entry rear side bite.
With this setup all I change for any asphalt track is rear shock angle (stand up a hole for more rear traction and less rotation or lay them down all the way for more rotation and less rear traction) and rear wheel base (longer for more rear traction and shorter for less).
04-15-2008, 09:21 PM
04-15-2008, 09:29 PM
JB I'm sure that I would like the car....the whole best part is that you are my best spare part
04-16-2008, 08:36 AM
The ONLY concern is probably your steering ackerman plate rubbing the front corner of the 3200 (or any lipo). If that is the case, you just have to mount that steering plate 1 hole farther. I am using the #2 hole counting from the front. Problem solved.
About drive train, I do the "LONG" way...I disable all 4 corner's CVD first, remove motor and pinion. Then roll the drive train by hand and feel the tight area. That gives you 3 areas to look at, the center pulley/spur, the front and rear diff pulleys. A lot of time I use a little flat head screw driver and remove the black stuff within the pulley tooth. If you still feel the pulleys are rubbing, disable the front OR rear belt and check between them....you must find it somewhere around there. If there are none @ the drive train between belts and pulleys...then reinstall the REAR CVD and check....then reinstall the FRONT CVD and check...your problem MUST be one of those area. You just need to target the problem zone after zone, 1 area at a time.
Good luck....
04-16-2008, 08:42 AM
A team driver emailed me about Ackermann adjustments on the Mi3 so I figured I would post this for all to see.
The Mi3 has a lot going on with the steering rack. There are 3 adjustments:
1. Steering velocity ratio - This is how fast the wheels move compared to the servo output arm. Most cars are 1:1. The Mi3 is 1:1 with the shortest "center track rod", aka steering bell crank. As you go to longer rods the wheels start to turn further and faster than the servo output arms moves. The longer rods are best for carpet foam tires where you can use the fast steering. On rubber tires the long rods move the wheels too fast and can make the front of the car push by going beyond a rubber tire ability to stick and comply with a steering input.
2. Ackerman - All center track rods have some degree of Ackermann. The narrow one have less total Ackermann and the wider ones have the most. On carpet with foam tires you want as little Ackermann as possible. With too much Ackermann on foam the inside tire will turn too much when cornering and make the car do weird stuff like lose corner speed or grab and loop out mid corner. Ackerman is used more with rubber tires. On big flowing tracks you want less Ackermann and on tight tracks with a lot of low speed corners you want more.
3. Ackermann rate - This is how the Ackermann rolls in through the travel. This is controlled by the center track rod fore and aft adjustment on the plate it attaches to. If the track rod is forward and the tie rods angle back from the center track rod to the steering spindles the Ackermann will start right off center and come in with a linear fashion. If the rods are parallel or angled from the center track rod forward to the steering spindles the Ackermann with be very little off center and gradually roll in towards the end of steering travel. The more the rods angle forward the less off center Ackermann you get and the more aggressively it comes in late in the steering travel. On foam tires a variety of settings will work as you generally run narrow center track rods with little Ackermann. With rubber tire PW and I always like running the shortest center track rod pretty far back. This would yield little Ackermann off center for the flowing sections where you used very little steering input but would let the Ackermann kick in for low speed corners.
As far as asphalt setups I have not found a better starting setup than PW's Kissimmee big track setup. It works everywhere on all size tracks.
The only changes I made are:
I drill a center hole for the ball stud in the steering spindle arm. The stock forward hole is too twitchy and the rear hole is too lazy.
35wt oil front and rear with 2hole pistons drilled to 1.2mm (3/64"). The bigger hole pistons make the car feel more responsive without the dartyness of 30wt.
Alloy 1* rear hub carriers. These have a HUGE positive effect on mid corner and exit steering by increasing rotation. I reduce the rear inboard toe spacers so I would with 2.75* total rear toe per side.
2mm rear roll center spacers between the lower arm suspension mounting blocks. This is 1mm lower than PW's big track setup calls for. I did it to improve corner entry rear side bite.
With this setup all I change for any asphalt track is rear shock angle (stand up a hole for more rear traction and less rotation or lay them down all the way for more rotation and less rear traction) and rear wheel base (longer for more rear traction and shorter for less).
The Mi3 has a lot going on with the steering rack. There are 3 adjustments:
1. Steering velocity ratio - This is how fast the wheels move compared to the servo output arm. Most cars are 1:1. The Mi3 is 1:1 with the shortest "center track rod", aka steering bell crank. As you go to longer rods the wheels start to turn further and faster than the servo output arms moves. The longer rods are best for carpet foam tires where you can use the fast steering. On rubber tires the long rods move the wheels too fast and can make the front of the car push by going beyond a rubber tire ability to stick and comply with a steering input.
2. Ackerman - All center track rods have some degree of Ackermann. The narrow one have less total Ackermann and the wider ones have the most. On carpet with foam tires you want as little Ackermann as possible. With too much Ackermann on foam the inside tire will turn too much when cornering and make the car do weird stuff like lose corner speed or grab and loop out mid corner. Ackerman is used more with rubber tires. On big flowing tracks you want less Ackermann and on tight tracks with a lot of low speed corners you want more.
3. Ackermann rate - This is how the Ackermann rolls in through the travel. This is controlled by the center track rod fore and aft adjustment on the plate it attaches to. If the track rod is forward and the tie rods angle back from the center track rod to the steering spindles the Ackermann will start right off center and come in with a linear fashion. If the rods are parallel or angled from the center track rod forward to the steering spindles the Ackermann with be very little off center and gradually roll in towards the end of steering travel. The more the rods angle forward the less off center Ackermann you get and the more aggressively it comes in late in the steering travel. On foam tires a variety of settings will work as you generally run narrow center track rods with little Ackermann. With rubber tire PW and I always like running the shortest center track rod pretty far back. This would yield little Ackermann off center for the flowing sections where you used very little steering input but would let the Ackermann kick in for low speed corners.
As far as asphalt setups I have not found a better starting setup than PW's Kissimmee big track setup. It works everywhere on all size tracks.
The only changes I made are:
I drill a center hole for the ball stud in the steering spindle arm. The stock forward hole is too twitchy and the rear hole is too lazy.
35wt oil front and rear with 2hole pistons drilled to 1.2mm (3/64"). The bigger hole pistons make the car feel more responsive without the dartyness of 30wt.
Alloy 1* rear hub carriers. These have a HUGE positive effect on mid corner and exit steering by increasing rotation. I reduce the rear inboard toe spacers so I would with 2.75* total rear toe per side.
2mm rear roll center spacers between the lower arm suspension mounting blocks. This is 1mm lower than PW's big track setup calls for. I did it to improve corner entry rear side bite.
With this setup all I change for any asphalt track is rear shock angle (stand up a hole for more rear traction and less rotation or lay them down all the way for more rotation and less rear traction) and rear wheel base (longer for more rear traction and shorter for less).
I can't get the file to open . . .Anyone else have this problem?