1Likesfoam tire prices, is this rape?
02-07-2004, 12:24 PM
#76
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
WOW!!! What a thread!! ( as he steps up on his soapbox...... ) Foams are not cheap to manufacture. PERIOD. The mark up on them is more than it needs to be, but it's not completely out of line. No one ever takes into account the level of R&D involved, the complex manufacturing processes or the cost of the EQUIPMENT needed to mass produce QUALITY mounted racing tires. I have been racing for a LONG time, and foams have always been farily expensive, but still cheaper than those ridiculous rubber tires with their 400 possible inserts and 32 different wheel offfsets and stiffnesses.
I also have mounted foams in the past, and I will tell you that to me (and I'm poor), it's worth the additonal $3 or $4 bucks a pair not to have to deal with the mess and inconvenience. Mounting tires sucks!!!
Now on to my third and final point: YOUR LHS IS NOT RAPING YOU!!!!
I happen to know what dealer cost is on tires and it's more than $8.99 a pair, that's more in line with what distributors pay for them. Hobbyshops, especially those with racetracks, need to make money. Most of you buy your kits, batteries, and electronics online to save some cash, and hey to be honest MOST dealers don't make much at all on those "high-ticket" items. So what do the stores have to sell in order to make money.........
TAH DAH......... Consumables. Tires, Brushes, bodies, paint and parts. But hey, you could get all that stuff online too. It's just a damn shame we can't race these cars online though isn't it?
(steps down from soapbox......)
WOW!!! What a thread!! ( as he steps up on his soapbox...... ) Foams are not cheap to manufacture. PERIOD. The mark up on them is more than it needs to be, but it's not completely out of line. No one ever takes into account the level of R&D involved, the complex manufacturing processes or the cost of the EQUIPMENT needed to mass produce QUALITY mounted racing tires. I have been racing for a LONG time, and foams have always been farily expensive, but still cheaper than those ridiculous rubber tires with their 400 possible inserts and 32 different wheel offfsets and stiffnesses.
I also have mounted foams in the past, and I will tell you that to me (and I'm poor), it's worth the additonal $3 or $4 bucks a pair not to have to deal with the mess and inconvenience. Mounting tires sucks!!!
Now on to my third and final point: YOUR LHS IS NOT RAPING YOU!!!!
I happen to know what dealer cost is on tires and it's more than $8.99 a pair, that's more in line with what distributors pay for them. Hobbyshops, especially those with racetracks, need to make money. Most of you buy your kits, batteries, and electronics online to save some cash, and hey to be honest MOST dealers don't make much at all on those "high-ticket" items. So what do the stores have to sell in order to make money.........
TAH DAH......... Consumables. Tires, Brushes, bodies, paint and parts. But hey, you could get all that stuff online too. It's just a damn shame we can't race these cars online though isn't it?
(steps down from soapbox......)
The production of foam tires is obviously cheap enough to sell them in HK for $8 and still make profit.
02-07-2004, 02:47 PM
#78
Foam prices
Here in Oz we expect to pay $20-$25 aus dollars for a pair of foamies in our LHS but in HK if you buy online it cost me $11 aus dollars + postage. If I buy atleast 10 pairs in HK if will be worth the cost.
Just me .2 cent.
Just me .2 cent.
02-07-2004, 02:59 PM
#79
Exactly what kind of foam is it:
Neoprene rubber foam?
Polyurethane foam?
Nitrile rubber foam?
closed cell?
open cell?
give some details and I bet it can be found.
Neoprene rubber foam?
Polyurethane foam?
Nitrile rubber foam?
closed cell?
open cell?
give some details and I bet it can be found.
02-07-2004, 03:32 PM
#80
Originally posted by KMac
Exactly what kind of foam is it:
Neoprene rubber foam?
Polyurethane foam?
Nitrile rubber foam?
closed cell?
open cell?
give some details and I bet it can be found.
Exactly what kind of foam is it:
Neoprene rubber foam?
Polyurethane foam?
Nitrile rubber foam?
closed cell?
open cell?
give some details and I bet it can be found.
02-07-2004, 04:58 PM
#81
dude, find some manufactures online, and try to send them a sample of what we are using. their engineers will likely know just by inspection what product of theirs comes closest. they will also have durometer gauges that will cross it as well.
due to the large potential volume that we could give to them, they may be willing to send samples to you. in fact, if this became serious, i would demand it. it's not that much of a hassle for someone to sell us a few sheets. we've just got to find those who care enough for their customers.
with the intense indoor competition here in the states, i would bet that five or better people at your local track would be willing to split in the initial costs of getting a few $1000's of material in their hands, for enough foam to last a lifetime. and really, you could sell off the rest, break even, and all involved will be happy.
it's not quite that simple, but i think this could happen.
due to the large potential volume that we could give to them, they may be willing to send samples to you. in fact, if this became serious, i would demand it. it's not that much of a hassle for someone to sell us a few sheets. we've just got to find those who care enough for their customers.
with the intense indoor competition here in the states, i would bet that five or better people at your local track would be willing to split in the initial costs of getting a few $1000's of material in their hands, for enough foam to last a lifetime. and really, you could sell off the rest, break even, and all involved will be happy.
it's not quite that simple, but i think this could happen.
02-08-2004, 06:26 AM
#82
Tech Initiate
S14driver
s14:
yea your right, i am talkiing about Radical Ricks, i never really complained about the $ until i started looking around here and seeing how much cheaper alot of guys are getting them.
i know Rick and Dave (owners of ricks)personally and both of them are good guys, but they are getting WAY out of hand. i mean come on, they tried to charge me 175$ for a quantum reverse speed control.
(tower hobbies 89.99)
i've dumped SEVERAL thousand dollars @ ricks since he opened this past summer, matter of fact, i was one of his first coustomers.
and yes, i feel like 25$ for 2 tires is bending me over. and i just wont buy from them anymore. bigboys may be about the same as far as price, but at least they'll true the tires for you when you buy them.
i know ricks is a huge place, (ive seen his electric bill, trust me its not pretty 3g's+ monthly)but that does not justify him WAY overpricing some of his stuff, and gouging his best customers.
yea your right, i am talkiing about Radical Ricks, i never really complained about the $ until i started looking around here and seeing how much cheaper alot of guys are getting them.
i know Rick and Dave (owners of ricks)personally and both of them are good guys, but they are getting WAY out of hand. i mean come on, they tried to charge me 175$ for a quantum reverse speed control.
(tower hobbies 89.99)i've dumped SEVERAL thousand dollars @ ricks since he opened this past summer, matter of fact, i was one of his first coustomers.
and yes, i feel like 25$ for 2 tires is bending me over. and i just wont buy from them anymore. bigboys may be about the same as far as price, but at least they'll true the tires for you when you buy them.
i know ricks is a huge place, (ive seen his electric bill, trust me its not pretty 3g's+ monthly)but that does not justify him WAY overpricing some of his stuff, and gouging his best customers.
02-08-2004, 07:17 AM
#83
just for the record, most hobby shops order from either horizon or great planes.....trinity and jaco do not sell direct to hobby shops, unless they can place monster orders(usually hobby shops who do mailorder). While I can't tell you cost, I can tell you its more than $10....an example would be at snowbirds, trinity has a booth selling TRC foams for $12 a pair, which is BELOW dealer cost from horizon or great planes and not by just a couple cents either, try a couple of bucks or so.
So if yer local hobby shop is selling tires for $20 a set, they are making a decent, but not big profit. Keep in mind, most other parts in this price range are double what the dealer pays, ie a $10 cost part sells for $19.99
I wouldn't worry too much, other tire companies are popping up all over, so I am sure prices will start to go down. I do know trinity has some trick new compounds in the works though, including multi compound rears and some new fronts called marbles.
Later EddieO
So if yer local hobby shop is selling tires for $20 a set, they are making a decent, but not big profit. Keep in mind, most other parts in this price range are double what the dealer pays, ie a $10 cost part sells for $19.99
I wouldn't worry too much, other tire companies are popping up all over, so I am sure prices will start to go down. I do know trinity has some trick new compounds in the works though, including multi compound rears and some new fronts called marbles.
Later EddieO
02-08-2004, 07:43 AM
#84
EddieO- What you are describing is simply that the distributer rapes the shops and the shops STILL rapes the customers. At the end of the day the customer is still being raped. Someone along the food chain is still taking a massive cut!
Foam tires still come out of the same factory. Hong Kong has is own distributer network also....but when it gets to the shops...your average pair of Elligies/Speedminds/Powers/Fast are only worth USD 7. Everybody still makes a profit at that price!! Now your argument is not going to be that electricity is more expensive in the States??!!
All I can say is guys...if you are ever in Hong Kong remember to bring a large suit case....100 pairs of tires take up a lot of room!!
Foam tires still come out of the same factory. Hong Kong has is own distributer network also....but when it gets to the shops...your average pair of Elligies/Speedminds/Powers/Fast are only worth USD 7. Everybody still makes a profit at that price!! Now your argument is not going to be that electricity is more expensive in the States??!!
All I can say is guys...if you are ever in Hong Kong remember to bring a large suit case....100 pairs of tires take up a lot of room!!
02-08-2004, 08:19 AM
#85
Tech Elite
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Originally posted by s14driver
now for the foam buisness who cares would you rather pat 42 dollars for a set of foams.
now for the foam buisness who cares would you rather pat 42 dollars for a set of foams.
1/8th Onroad foams....used to be $42 a set, now are in the $46-$52 range.
02-08-2004, 11:34 AM
#86
Tech Apprentice
Here is a very cheap hobbyshop in norway. The webshop is improving all the time with more products. They have very cheap foam tires, the tires is very good. I`ve tested them myself. The colours isn`t that good
http://shop.radiostyrt.no/
http://shop.radiostyrt.no/
02-08-2004, 11:51 AM
#87
Originally posted by sturla
Here is a very cheap hobbyshop in norway. The webshop is improving all the time with more products. They have very cheap foam tires, the tires is very good. I`ve tested them myself. The colours isn`t that good
http://shop.radiostyrt.no/
Here is a very cheap hobbyshop in norway. The webshop is improving all the time with more products. They have very cheap foam tires, the tires is very good. I`ve tested them myself. The colours isn`t that good
http://shop.radiostyrt.no/
02-08-2004, 12:00 PM
#88
Remember if no one has said it yet, but most people buy a set of tires and then trues them and takes off about 10-20 runs. If you bought a set of tires and ran them at full size they would last much much longer. Everyone that buys them CHOOSES to true them down and thus reducing the life of the tire. If you bought them and ran them right out of the box they would be very cost effective.
02-08-2004, 12:16 PM
#89
Does Jaco have a website?
What are the shores ratings on purple, orange, dbl purple, etc.?
What are the shores ratings on purple, orange, dbl purple, etc.?
02-08-2004, 12:18 PM
#90
scida,
that's exactly what has got me thinking these last few days. i'm now at a level where i really don't/can't run tall tires. until recently, that is exactly what i would do. i looked like an idiot, and didn't care, because my driving wasn't adversely impacted by it. now, i have definitely become more precise, and more observant. the car just is not as good with tall tires.
another question i would now pose. if the foam material is the driving cost of the tires, why doesn't anyone offer an alternate line of tires that start at 2.35" diameter for "serious racers"? That's about a 30% decrease in material which could be passed on as savings to those who prefer not to run full size tires.
personally, i still don't believe that the actual material cost is the driving factor. but for those who use this argument, another question has been posed.
that's exactly what has got me thinking these last few days. i'm now at a level where i really don't/can't run tall tires. until recently, that is exactly what i would do. i looked like an idiot, and didn't care, because my driving wasn't adversely impacted by it. now, i have definitely become more precise, and more observant. the car just is not as good with tall tires.
another question i would now pose. if the foam material is the driving cost of the tires, why doesn't anyone offer an alternate line of tires that start at 2.35" diameter for "serious racers"? That's about a 30% decrease in material which could be passed on as savings to those who prefer not to run full size tires.
personally, i still don't believe that the actual material cost is the driving factor. but for those who use this argument, another question has been posed.