PowerHouse

iTrader: (66)

Just wanted to pick some brains here and find out what you guys think would be a good price to charge for Dyno testing. I am kicking around the idea of picking up a Land and Sea Eddie Mini Reaction Cradle Dyno and wanted to see how much interest there is out there and what people would be willing to pay to have there engines dyno tuned, compare before and after modifications etc. I would be getting it with the newest software which includes a ton of features including multiple graph overlays, a complete digital weather station, egt readings, fuel usage, piston speed, run averages etc. The unit will run me about $12000 so before I go blowing that kind of coin, it would be nice to know if there is a call for it. Let me know guys!!

zixxer

iTrader: (61)

seems like alot ot spend...returns not that much ...just sayin ....would be cool ...just not sure how many would be interested ....

wallot

rather than dyno tuned i would like to see "track tuned" engines.
Have someone who can drive consistently test engines before and after mod. To see time per lap and runtime. Acceleration curve like seen in RC mags would be nice too.

Maximo

iTrader: (11)

If i were to get a dyno I would get a X-dyno for several reasons... one being that the X-dyno is a industry standard and your results would be better recognized, a x-dyno is about half the price of the dyno your looking into, as well a inertial dyno better represents how an engine will perform on the ground...loaded dynoes IMO do not show any inertial effects, which is a big part of how these engines operate...

ProDriver1978

My mill comes with a dyno sheet

nuttynative

iTrader: (11)

+1

Tony Newland

iTrader: (53)

Inertia dyno's are the only way to go.....

I think if you look into it alittle further, you'll find the dyno itself is realitively inexpensive to build yourself. The money is spent on sensors and hardware/software, which is nowhere near the price you had mentioned. A few years ago I was involved with TWF8 assisting Paco Raap with his dyno buildup... I have also assisted with Ed Bridges in the research/build of his. The X-dyno has a few flaws in its software the last time I looked at the system they were running..... they probably have updated since.

http://www.twf8.ws/php/index.php?opt...=60&Itemid=186

But like anything, the trick is in all the setup, mechanical and electronics.... if you dont know what your doing the best equipment wont tell you squat.

Mr. Twister

iTrader: (4)

Mark, i would strongly consider looking at other avenues as far as where to get it from, i have talked to Ed about this very subject, and as far as the data system he know's what the best is, i just gave him a call on the phone, you should do the same, you would be suprised how much money can be saved after talking to him.

As for what people will spend, it's hard to say, For guy's like you and me it is for sure a key tool in what we do, but as you may have seen through reserch, alot of opinion's out there on dyno's, i was willing to pay $100 for testing, but to have this done after multipul changes on a engine it can add up fast doing 5 or 6 pull's plus shipping and different pipe's after changes.

I think it's great that your moving forward so well and a dyno is a great thing to have to back up your work. Good luck

PowerHouse

iTrader: (66)

I have thought about the x-dyno and that was going to be my first choice because that seems to be what everyone else is using and it's nice to compare apples to apples but I have tried emailing Nitrodyne Systems and have no responses. I sent a few emails over the past few weeks and not getting a response. On their site they mentioned in 06 they were canning the project but may restart it again at a later date. Not sure when Eb or Adam bought theirs but I have had no luck getting in contact with them and i do not have a phone number to call direct. If someone knows something I don't, hook a brother up. I have used and operated dynos for years but have alot of experience using bigger dynos such as the Superflos and Huff Technology Dyno's and I agree, they are a great tool to have and nice to speed up the developement process instead of track testing the engines after each change. I have had great luck with the engines thus far, alot due to the fact I have extensive background and an education, but as far as making changes, it would be nice to see things going in the right direction in a shorter period of time. I mosty want a dyno to play with pipes, compression ratios, combustion chamber designs etc. just like in the old days. There is alot more hidden in those areas than you think and it's great to put thigs like that into the equation for an even better final product. I did alot of looking at other equipment and the only other dyno's I can find are chassis dyno's and that would be nice to test clutching efficiency but the losses accured in the driveline would show unless you figured out the exact correction and factored it in there but then that leaves alot of room for error and may or may not hold water against the other test results out there. I would definately prefer the X-dyno but if it is unavailable, I either do nothing or go with the next best thing even if it's twice the money, but if guys would rather see field results, then I'm covered because that's all I have

Maximo

iTrader: (11)

contact Datamite, they will be able to help you put together a inertial dyno very similar to the X-Dyno...I believe murnan uses a sytem like this....

I intend to purchase or build a dyno at some point, however I feel a dyno only shows a very limited aspect of an engines overall performance, to me how an engine triggers and responds is more important then how much power it makes, truth be told many of the guys running my engines are wanting me to take power away not add more power.....I still would like a dyno for testing the drag mods, however for track engines I cannot see too much benefit, as most track surfaces do not allow the use of truly high powered engines anyways, how an engine feels on trigger to me is critical, as well as fuel mileage and general stability.......


edit: I am not trying to say a dyno does not have its uses, i am just saying for race engines there is more to the equation then the power curve... in racing you are on and off the throttle so many times that how an engine responds during a continuous wide open pass has little relevance to how an engine behaves on a track......When you also consider the variations in surface traction and inertial effects of internal mass track testing is IMO the most important aspect.... Not knocking a dyno or anyone who has a dyno, I am just saying I can make a killer track engine without the use of a dyno........ For a drag engine things may be different !

PowerHouse

iTrader: (66)

I agree maximo. I myself am no stranger to using dynos. We used them on an almost daily basis build 280-320HP snowmobile drag race engines and even though we had them down to a science, most customers needed that reassurance that their engine was making the power they wanted. We also really liked using it to develope pipes, combustion chambers, test new carb systems etc. so the importance was there in that aspect. I have been building and modifying engines of all calibers for years, everything from these nitro engines all the way up to Triple Supercharged 500+ cubic inch offshore powerboat engines making 1200hp each so I have no problems figuring out what needs to make power, when and where. What I'm trying to figure out is all these people internet wide say the same damn thing " He doesn't have any dyno sheets to back his work". You and I both know you don't need a dyno sheet to prove anything if it works in the field because last time i checked, we raced cars on a track, not dyno's on the bench. I guess what i am saying is, all those people out there want proof of this or proof of that but when you say put your money where your mouth is, they are no where to be found. So should i spend the time, money and energy which i have very little time to be farting around with a homemade dyno when I have the volume of engines going in and out every week. I can't tell the customer that there engine is on hold because my homemade dyno comes first and even if I do build one, most people will contest the results anyway so i will get the old "your numbers are___________" you can fill in the blank with whatever you think will be said. My business thus far has relied souly on good people trusting my background, my experience and most importantly my word. If I have built the base I have now in only a couple of years by word of mouth, a few threads on RC forums and a website, I think I can manage growing at an incredible rate. I offer port designs not to many have seen before so once i get past that "does it really work" phase and people realize that modifying an engine isn't only done one way, the same way everyone has been doing for years, they will venture over to the dark side to try something new. Maybe I don't need a dyno to "prove" myself but like I said, it would be cool to play with to test different ideas before it hits the track for testing. I only use the dyno to see if things look to be going in a positive direction and yes a dyno can't simulate spool up times along with several other factors that go into racing but it can certainly help develope new ideas sooner. I also am not the type that needs a dyno to show me what every change does. If you can't build, alter and custom tailor an engine to the customers needs without having to dyno every little thing you do, then you do not truly understand the physics and mathmatics that makes them tick. I have seen and heard of guys who just grind and test, grind and test and sometimes they get lucky and sometimes they don't. I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't want someone like that building an engine for me .

zixxer

iTrader: (61)

dont be bothered with those people who say "oh you dont have a dyno how do you know " thats a load of shit do what you do and track test is the best way ...the work your doing is awesome ,,,and people are proving it weekly with your motors ....and your pretty specialized on what you do to each different manufacturers motor ...like you told me on my extech ...youve got people running them ...you now they do really well ...you know what you have done works ....

shit the last dyno sheet i got with a motor was nothing more than a photocopy ...i put no credence in it whatsoever ..it looks cool and might be fun to show off at the track ...but it aint gonna win a race for ya ....

just my opinions

jkas10

iTrader: (123)

Mark, My two remaining pennies worth...

I don't need dyno results before deciding to purchase an engine. I already know that my next engine will be from PowerHouse

However - comma - I LOVE dynos for R&D. Geez, I had a Fantom dyno for my electric motors when I raced electric R/C. I liked to see what the dyno results would show me if I ran different brushes, springs, bearings, bushing oils, tight shimmed arm, vs. loosely shimmed arm, etc., etc., etc., I also use to race 1:1 scale sprint cars and we learned a lot from hooking our engine to a dyno, or using a chassis dyno, and testing different cams, injector nozzles, headers, fuel pumps, timing, etc., etc., etc.,

So, if money wasn't an object, I would say get youself a new toy and play! Too bad money has to factor into the decision, though. Unless you have been modding a lot of engines, I am guessing you don't have $12 grand burning a hole in your pocket...

For the return on investment to make sense, you would have to mod about 150 engines - or so - and use all that income, to pay back the cost of the dyno. And not pay yourself for that work.

Bottom line, I think most guys will buy from you because of the data in Mark's head, not Mark's dyno.

Your call, my friend. But, I know what I would do...

Take care, bro - I look forward to the turboed Rossi arriving next week!

r1harper

iTrader: (24)

i agree on the dyno thing...in RC i do not believe it is necessary i think it is just a way to make people think there product is better. there are several top name engine guys that do not use them and dont need to. but i know this you can make a graph say what you want it to say if you get my drift.

PowerHouse

iTrader: (66)

I hear you guys loud and clear!! No I don't have $12000 burning a hole in my pocket, it already burnt a hole last year when I bought my Ducati 1098 and then spent another $5000 tuning up the engine Dynoed at 156hp with 96ft lbs. at the wheel and has a top speed on radar of 184.6mph. It helps being a sheriff with radar guns back to the point, I agree, you can certainly make any engine look like the best or worst depending on number placement and yes, it would be a cool toy and a good R&D tool to have but for now I think I will hold off on it as everyone has through here and other places have talked me out of it for now. The few people that need the dyno results to mkae them feel better about there purchase will go buy from someone with a dyno.