Electric 1/8 Rules Debate
02-16-2009, 03:44 PM
#46
They were blasted for making rulings based on what they felt the class should be, and ignoring what was currently available. A ROAR rep posted in the Electric 8th Scale Conversions thread when this topic originally came up, and said that was their reasoning. They ignored the fact that nearly every current electric 8th buggy would be outlawed by their rulings. That's not healthy for the class or ROAR's image and following.
Rules are needed yes, but they need to be realistic to what is available.
Rules are needed yes, but they need to be realistic to what is available.
02-16-2009, 03:46 PM
#47
Tech Regular
i have never seen a lipo explode and start a huge fire and all racers had to evacuate the track. LOL people are just to up tight about lipo batteries. heck running a nitro indoors is WAY more dangerus than useing a soft cased lipo. 4-5-6 cell should be a racers choice. my 2 cents
02-16-2009, 03:50 PM
#48
ROAR was WAY late to the game on brushless and lipo technology and then choose poorly on their standards (IMO). Now they are over compensating by trying to jump on 1/8 electric.
READ what these guys are saying! We are the driving force behind this class period! It didn't exist before we created it.
If ROAR makes poor choices again, it will only get ignored more so than it dos now.
Hard case lipos need to go away!
Weight limits are a joke!
Cell limits at this time don't make sense!
02-16-2009, 04:06 PM
#50
ok here is what i feel is a good set of rules for 1/8 buggy for now. in a year or two maybee some of the battery and motor rules can be more concrete.
basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.
motor, run what you brung
battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.
qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.
MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.
the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.
limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.
basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.
motor, run what you brung
battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.
qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.
MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.
the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.
limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.
02-16-2009, 04:09 PM
#51
I too dissagree with the hardcase. I would be ok with a battery case built for the car that you could take your pack out and inspect it for damage. Why on earth would you want to pay for a hardcase for each pack and not be able to inspect the battery for damage? I also think having a hard case would cause problems not prevent them. Batteries in a hard case cant be cooled like exposed packs. I've had some horribly damaged lipo packs from plane crashes, I wouldnt run them but a friend of mine does and some preform better than some new packs. Having a lipo catch on fire because of being smashed is VERY rare. Improper charging and insuffecient cooling are the main causes of lipo failures. So why would you want to wrap a hard case around your battery?? Makes no sense to me.
02-16-2009, 04:11 PM
#52
ok here is what i feel is a good set of rules for 1/8 buggy for now. in a year or two maybee some of the battery and motor rules can be more concrete.
basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.
motor, run what you brung
battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.
qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.
MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.
the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.
limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.
basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.
motor, run what you brung
battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.
qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.
MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.
the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.
limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.
Seems more than reasonable to me.
02-16-2009, 04:11 PM
#53
ok here is what i feel is a good set of rules for 1/8 buggy for now. in a year or two maybee some of the battery and motor rules can be more concrete.
basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.
motor, run what you brung
battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.
qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.
MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.
the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.
limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.
basic nitro width, wheelbase ect.
motor, run what you brung
battery, max 6s lipos, any capacity, shape, no hardcase required.
qualifiers and mains whatever your local track will allow but 10 minutes MAX.
MINIMMUM weight, 7.5 lbs, no max weight or make it 9lbs.
the min weight will keep the big companies from feeling the need to make super fancy and expensive and fragile cars, keeping the cost down and allowing newcomers an easier time affording the class. also it will discourage guys from buying lighter lower capacity packs that will be marginal at best.
limiting the packs to 4s in an effort to keep the cars power down wont work. you can already make a buggy waaaaay overpowered with the packs and motors currently out there.
02-16-2009, 04:11 PM
#54
It can't be an emerging class unless it appeals and is geared so that beginners can become invlolved.
If it remains a class only for experienced it will be like 1/8 on-road which in my opinion is a fringe class is in the U.S.
If it remains a class only for experienced it will be like 1/8 on-road which in my opinion is a fringe class is in the U.S.
We all know 8th scale is appealing for many reasons, one of which is durability. These things are virtual TANKS! This in and of itself may appeal to noobs, but it certainly wouldn't convince somebody to drop two grand on one.
I understand the idea is Safety first; Fun and Fairness to follow. I believe this will be up to the local racers to decide who "should" enter this class. Not to exclude anyone, that's the last thing we want. But we do need to explain to these potential racers, that these are NOT TOYS.
02-16-2009, 04:17 PM
#55
Tech Regular
iTrader: (62)
1/8
[QUOTE=lxmuff;5440335]You know, this HARD CASE thing is so contradicting. If anything, it should be a SOFT PADDED CASING to absorb impact!!! DUH
leave it alone thanks to dan and tom for even creating these cars for us let it develop more before you set down all your rules roar
leave it alone thanks to dan and tom for even creating these cars for us let it develop more before you set down all your rules roar
Last edited by oneblackram; 02-16-2009 at 04:23 PM. Reason: mistakes made
02-16-2009, 04:20 PM
#56
6S should be the max...
Otherwise you'll have people who are running 10S setups...
Or possibly limit the maximum motor RPM with the kV x voltage = RPM formula...
Limit it to 50000 RPM or something.
2200kV x 22.2V = 48840 RPM
That way people can run 4 - 6S and not have to worry...
Otherwise you'll have people who are running 10S setups...
Or possibly limit the maximum motor RPM with the kV x voltage = RPM formula...
Limit it to 50000 RPM or something.
2200kV x 22.2V = 48840 RPM
That way people can run 4 - 6S and not have to worry...
02-16-2009, 04:24 PM
#57
I think a spec class will emerge and be quite successful eventually but for now I like the idea of seeing what the fastest guys around the track end up with on their setups. I'm thinking the land missiles will not be competitive but the flipside is that the owner of those outrageous setups might be less than professional drivers too and general track rules might already cover unsafe and penalise reckless driving.
Note: The cell count is not a good indicator of whether the person has an outrageously powerful setup and/or is unsafe to compete with because P=VI so there is an accomplice in that equation of being too powerful.
Hardcases?
What about a compromise?
Lets say we get a sheet of 1mm lexan and fold that around our softpacks. A downloadable or printed instruction sheet on how to fold it around your battery. You could do it on race day if you didn't know it was required providing someone had a supply of lexan sheets at the track.
Some heat sheild tape or gaffa tape will keep it on and three battery straps to secure it. I now it's nothing like a professionally made hardcase but you gotta admit, whilst it is strapped inside a battery compartment it would provide a much greater degree of puncture and impact protection.
Hold on guys, let me strap on my lexan chest plate before you reply.
Note: The cell count is not a good indicator of whether the person has an outrageously powerful setup and/or is unsafe to compete with because P=VI so there is an accomplice in that equation of being too powerful.
Hardcases?
What about a compromise?
Lets say we get a sheet of 1mm lexan and fold that around our softpacks. A downloadable or printed instruction sheet on how to fold it around your battery. You could do it on race day if you didn't know it was required providing someone had a supply of lexan sheets at the track.
Some heat sheild tape or gaffa tape will keep it on and three battery straps to secure it. I now it's nothing like a professionally made hardcase but you gotta admit, whilst it is strapped inside a battery compartment it would provide a much greater degree of puncture and impact protection.
Hold on guys, let me strap on my lexan chest plate before you reply.
02-16-2009, 04:24 PM
#58
teeforb.... my main reason for 10 minute max is we need to respect the other electric classes out there as well. how did you feel when you had 5 minute electric cars and had to marshall long nitro mains? also it dosent push a 4s 5000 setup which is the most popular.
as for not caring what roar does just because you wont ever run one of their events you need to consider something. companies will be making their cars and conversions based on what roar does.
so even if you dont like roars rules this class will be greatly influenced by what roar ends up doing. so speak up now or YOUR class will be formed by people who dont even realize that the common high end buggy weighs more than 8lbs.
as for not caring what roar does just because you wont ever run one of their events you need to consider something. companies will be making their cars and conversions based on what roar does.
so even if you dont like roars rules this class will be greatly influenced by what roar ends up doing. so speak up now or YOUR class will be formed by people who dont even realize that the common high end buggy weighs more than 8lbs.
02-16-2009, 04:30 PM
#59
teeforb.... my main reason for 10 minute max is we need to respect the other electric classes out there as well. how did you feel when you had 5 minute electric cars and had to marshall long nitro mains? also it dosent push a 4s 5000 setup which is the most popular.
as for not caring what roar does just because you wont ever run one of their events you need to consider something. companies will be making their cars and conversions based on what roar does.
so even if you dont like roars rules this class will be greatly influenced by what roar ends up doing. so speak up now or YOUR class will be formed by people who dont even realize that the common high end buggy weighs more than 8lbs.
as for not caring what roar does just because you wont ever run one of their events you need to consider something. companies will be making their cars and conversions based on what roar does.
so even if you dont like roars rules this class will be greatly influenced by what roar ends up doing. so speak up now or YOUR class will be formed by people who dont even realize that the common high end buggy weighs more than 8lbs.
here at srs, which is definetely in the top 5 best and recognized electric tracks, electric 1.8th has grown from 2 people a year ago, to over 12-15 people today with more coming. It is definetely emerging and growing.
Having a 10 min main is too short, 15 min is better. Here they run 15 min mains for trucks, buggys and 4wd. 15 min is in range of 4s 5000 when setup properly.
02-16-2009, 04:33 PM
#60
I understand and somewhat agree with your assertion that Beginners need to "Ease" their way in. Now, even WITH the ROAR rules in place, that still leaves an inexperienced driver with a 7.99 lb land missile, capable of 60 mph with a simple gearing change. Contrast that with the initial cost of a brushless 8th scale. That pretty much means that it is NOT for beginners, and to tell somebody that is down right IRRESPONSIBLE.
We all know 8th scale is appealing for many reasons, one of which is durability. These things are virtual TANKS! This in and of itself may appeal to noobs, but it certainly wouldn't convince somebody to drop two grand on one.
I understand the idea is Safety first; Fun and Fairness to follow. I believe this will be up to the local racers to decide who "should" enter this class. Not to exclude anyone, that's the last thing we want. But we do need to explain to these potential racers, that these are NOT TOYS.
We all know 8th scale is appealing for many reasons, one of which is durability. These things are virtual TANKS! This in and of itself may appeal to noobs, but it certainly wouldn't convince somebody to drop two grand on one.
I understand the idea is Safety first; Fun and Fairness to follow. I believe this will be up to the local racers to decide who "should" enter this class. Not to exclude anyone, that's the last thing we want. But we do need to explain to these potential racers, that these are NOT TOYS.
i am a noob and i drive a land missile BUT i have done hours upon hours of research and understand allot about these cars. THEY ARE TOYS thats why we buy them for fun right? i wouldn't drop this much money into something that was a PITA would you? there should be no ruling to who can race i mean if you showed up and someone told you that you couldn't race because you were a noob wouldn't you be mad? if they are really that bad of a driver you could make a beginner class but like you stated no beginner is going to drop a grand minimum in to there car(except me
). as for rules throw them out the window let the class progess, when my dad used to race they could do anything to the cars, now every little thing has a rule next thing you know there will be a rule for what you can wear to the track 
. like in baja racing there is a class 1 that resembles the truggys and buggys in RC guess what they are unlimited to what you can do. so like allot of people stated above let the class's progress then set rules based upon what works not what they think will work, just my 00.0000002c -Thomas Jones