Serpent 966
05-19-2011, 04:15 PM
#1606
Tech Master
On a more serious note. We were running at the MT Grand Prix this weekend. Scott's car was very fast. The latest upgrades are really taking us in a positive direction. Scott wrote a complete race report that can be found at:
http://teamserpent.com/
If you have any questions about the car we will be at the following events this year:
California Series Races, Timezone, GLC, Nationals and a coupla additional races to be announced. Feel free to come and ask questions, the Empire Boys are happy to help.
Team Empire is expanding this year. We intend on having fun and kickin' butt.
http://teamserpent.com/
If you have any questions about the car we will be at the following events this year:
California Series Races, Timezone, GLC, Nationals and a coupla additional races to be announced. Feel free to come and ask questions, the Empire Boys are happy to help.
Team Empire is expanding this year. We intend on having fun and kickin' butt.
05-19-2011, 06:05 PM
#1608
In the spirit of good conversation, I would like to disagree with the very wise Nitrodude...... It is not a requirement to drive your 966 like you just stole it!
Here is what I see as the keys to being fast in 1/8...
1) get the car setup so it can carry maximum corner speed
2) do not drive with drag brake
3) set your push brake for the corner of the track that requires the most braking
4)Drive into the corner with full control, meaning brake early and keep the car pointed forward (you will be much faster if you slowly enter a corner versus severly overshooting the corner)
5) allow the car to do its job through the corner-be patient!
6) accelerate SMOOTHLY while exiting the corner-you will have more control of the car if you don't spin the tires, and you will also save fuel!
I know this style isn't for everyone, and would take some practice, but if you could make improvements in these 6 areas, I promise you will be faster.
Either way, best of luck when you hit the track!
Here is what I see as the keys to being fast in 1/8...
1) get the car setup so it can carry maximum corner speed
2) do not drive with drag brake
3) set your push brake for the corner of the track that requires the most braking
4)Drive into the corner with full control, meaning brake early and keep the car pointed forward (you will be much faster if you slowly enter a corner versus severly overshooting the corner)
5) allow the car to do its job through the corner-be patient!
6) accelerate SMOOTHLY while exiting the corner-you will have more control of the car if you don't spin the tires, and you will also save fuel!
I know this style isn't for everyone, and would take some practice, but if you could make improvements in these 6 areas, I promise you will be faster.
Either way, best of luck when you hit the track!
BUt we cant all be Scott Kimbrow
05-22-2011, 10:47 PM
#1609
Tech Regular
Morganti & 966 take TQ at Kosmic GP
05-22-2011, 10:51 PM
#1610
Tech Regular
Scott Kimbrow said:
"get the car setup so it can carry maximum corner speed"
Which setting's are key here? How can I improve corner speed?
Thanks a lot, Stefan
"get the car setup so it can carry maximum corner speed"
Which setting's are key here? How can I improve corner speed?
Thanks a lot, Stefan
05-23-2011, 05:27 AM
#1611
QUOTE=P2gee;9136022]One of the best things I ever did to help my 1/8 scale driving, was stand under the drivers stand and watch A-main drivers steering and throttle inputs. You can look at their eyes and tell what part of the track they're on and what they are doing radio wise to manage that part of the track. First thing I learned is most were using very small steering inputs..... I at the time was cranking the wheel lock to lock. This told me I had some work to do on my car setup including some of the radio equipment I was using. Second thing I noticed was how much half and even quarter throttle was being used in places I thought were full pin. Half throttle can get you around some parts of a track just as fast a full and save tire and fuel in the process. I still to this day watch drivers on the driving stand, you can learn a lot!![/QUOTE]
If you ever get chance to attend world championship race GO!!!!!!!!!
You will learn a ton just by watching the top guys and LISTENING to the car on different point of track. I also recommend you volunteer corner marshal for the top guys if you every get chance especially at different corners and parts of track. Fantastic way to see and hear the different driving styles with regards to steering input, throttle input and actual placement of the car.
The races are expensive to attend but honestly well worth the time and money spent even for joe club racer like myself. You will learn more in a week than you do in a year!
If you ever get chance to attend world championship race GO!!!!!!!!!
You will learn a ton just by watching the top guys and LISTENING to the car on different point of track. I also recommend you volunteer corner marshal for the top guys if you every get chance especially at different corners and parts of track. Fantastic way to see and hear the different driving styles with regards to steering input, throttle input and actual placement of the car.
The races are expensive to attend but honestly well worth the time and money spent even for joe club racer like myself. You will learn more in a week than you do in a year!
05-23-2011, 10:19 AM
#1612
Patient , man if I could master that while driving I just might have Scott following me. It goal I am working on.
05-23-2011, 10:39 AM
#1613
QUOTE=P2gee;9136022]One of the best things I ever did to help my 1/8 scale driving, was stand under the drivers stand and watch A-main drivers steering and throttle inputs. You can look at their eyes and tell what part of the track they're on and what they are doing radio wise to manage that part of the track. First thing I learned is most were using very small steering inputs..... I at the time was cranking the wheel lock to lock. This told me I had some work to do on my car setup including some of the radio equipment I was using. Second thing I noticed was how much half and even quarter throttle was being used in places I thought were full pin. Half throttle can get you around some parts of a track just as fast a full and save tire and fuel in the process. I still to this day watch drivers on the driving stand, you can learn a lot!!
If you ever get chance to attend world championship race GO!!!!!!!!!
You will learn a ton just by watching the top guys and LISTENING to the car on different point of track. I also recommend you volunteer corner marshal for the top guys if you every get chance especially at different corners and parts of track. Fantastic way to see and hear the different driving styles with regards to steering input, throttle input and actual placement of the car.
The races are expensive to attend but honestly well worth the time and money spent even for joe club racer like myself. You will learn more in a week than you do in a year![/quote]
I've done this, maybe not with WC drivers, but with the local fast guys at least. It helps to see where they let off the gas for the turns, and it will also help with setup. THere used to be a corner in which I was clearly slower(the track is closed now), I volunteered a whole weekend to marshal that corner and I learned where the fast guys were letting off the gas, when I tried to do the same my car just went straight, my setup was off, made the changes and I was faster right away. The same thing happened with another corner where I had problems.
One thing most of us do is hit the brakes way too late, and that slows us down a lot.
05-23-2011, 01:24 PM
#1614
When I say "carry maximum corner speed" I am mostly talking about getting the car into the corner carrying as much speed as possible and have it roll that speed through the corner so that you can exit smooth and quick without throwing the car around a lot (which burns up tires and fuel and in most cases loses time). A lot of drivers like to be able to steer the car by having the rear end very free and many top drivers do this very effectively. I prefer to avoid this if possible (sometimes it is not possible and you must make the rear free to rotate the car around some tight turns). I can tell you that almost everyone that has driven my car says it does not steer enough, but, it is what feels good for me. I do think it's very important to note that many of the setups that fast guys run, do not work for the average racer. I also think that the most important thing an average racer can do is not to copy a fast guy setup, but rather to learn what effects certain changes on the car have and then from that information build a set up that feels good FOR YOU.
Typically a stiffer setup will help the car carry more corner speed, and I usually like things like harder tires (if the track will allow), stiffer sway bars (makes the car much more responsive) etc.
I think the "key" settings to keep in mind are things that scrub off speed as you enter the corner if you want to keep the corner speed up..... such as, tires that are too big or too soft (yes the car turns, but it is almost like applying brakes as the tires dig in and scrub off speed) running too much drag brake (many use this as a crutch to "automatically" slow the car, but it is impossible to carry corner speed if everytime you let off the throttle the brakes are being applied!), too much wing, a chassis or body that drags. All of these are things that kill corner speed. Also, having a very free drivetrain will help the car be very smooth through the corners.
I hope this has helped answer your question. Good luck to you, and always remember....... to have fun!
Scott
05-23-2011, 02:13 PM
#1615
Starting to put my 966 Evo together now and have some questions.
Shimming the front driveshafts. How many shims are you using on either side? Cause the manual suggests 4 on the inside and 2 on the outside but that will give you almost 2 mm of play.
Downsides so far as Ive noticed have been, the manual is just utter garbage. Alot of filing and reaming on the A-arms to make everything travel smoothly, like alot more than on my old Mugen.
I am going to ask alot in this thread just so you know. I havent run onroad since 2003 so Im fairly rusty
Shimming the front driveshafts. How many shims are you using on either side? Cause the manual suggests 4 on the inside and 2 on the outside but that will give you almost 2 mm of play.
Downsides so far as Ive noticed have been, the manual is just utter garbage. Alot of filing and reaming on the A-arms to make everything travel smoothly, like alot more than on my old Mugen.
I am going to ask alot in this thread just so you know. I havent run onroad since 2003 so Im fairly rusty
05-23-2011, 02:33 PM
#1616
Starting to put my 966 Evo together now and have some questions.
Shimming the front driveshafts. How many shims are you using on either side? Cause the manual suggests 4 on the inside and 2 on the outside but that will give you almost 2 mm of play.
Downsides so far as Ive noticed have been, the manual is just utter garbage. Alot of filing and reaming on the A-arms to make everything travel smoothly, like alot more than on my old Mugen.
I am going to ask alot in this thread just so you know. I havent run onroad since 2003 so Im fairly rusty
Shimming the front driveshafts. How many shims are you using on either side? Cause the manual suggests 4 on the inside and 2 on the outside but that will give you almost 2 mm of play.
Downsides so far as Ive noticed have been, the manual is just utter garbage. Alot of filing and reaming on the A-arms to make everything travel smoothly, like alot more than on my old Mugen.
I am going to ask alot in this thread just so you know. I havent run onroad since 2003 so Im fairly rusty
...but i do know when doing my build i didn't file aor ream out anything until i full break in my motor and rand it a few time at the track...when i too the shocks off there were no bindind arms move freely..the only thing i had to ream out was the hole for the spur gears.
05-23-2011, 02:37 PM
#1617
Well, I hate to say it, but it is kind of a matter of preference. What works for me may not work for you. However, to try and answer your question.....
When I say "carry maximum corner speed" I am mostly talking about getting the car into the corner carrying as much speed as possible and have it roll that speed through the corner so that you can exit smooth and quick without throwing the car around a lot (which burns up tires and fuel and in most cases loses time). A lot of drivers like to be able to steer the car by having the rear end very free and many top drivers do this very effectively. I prefer to avoid this if possible (sometimes it is not possible and you must make the rear free to rotate the car around some tight turns). I can tell you that almost everyone that has driven my car says it does not steer enough, but, it is what feels good for me. I do think it's very important to note that many of the setups that fast guys run, do not work for the average racer. I also think that the most important thing an average racer can do is not to copy a fast guy setup, but rather to learn what effects certain changes on the car have and then from that information build a set up that feels good FOR YOU.
Typically a stiffer setup will help the car carry more corner speed, and I usually like things like harder tires (if the track will allow), stiffer sway bars (makes the car much more responsive) etc.
I think the "key" settings to keep in mind are things that scrub off speed as you enter the corner if you want to keep the corner speed up..... such as, tires that are too big or too soft (yes the car turns, but it is almost like applying brakes as the tires dig in and scrub off speed) running too much drag brake (many use this as a crutch to "automatically" slow the car, but it is impossible to carry corner speed if everytime you let off the throttle the brakes are being applied!), too much wing, a chassis or body that drags. All of these are things that kill corner speed. Also, having a very free drivetrain will help the car be very smooth through the corners.
I hope this has helped answer your question. Good luck to you, and always remember....... to have fun!
Scott
When I say "carry maximum corner speed" I am mostly talking about getting the car into the corner carrying as much speed as possible and have it roll that speed through the corner so that you can exit smooth and quick without throwing the car around a lot (which burns up tires and fuel and in most cases loses time). A lot of drivers like to be able to steer the car by having the rear end very free and many top drivers do this very effectively. I prefer to avoid this if possible (sometimes it is not possible and you must make the rear free to rotate the car around some tight turns). I can tell you that almost everyone that has driven my car says it does not steer enough, but, it is what feels good for me. I do think it's very important to note that many of the setups that fast guys run, do not work for the average racer. I also think that the most important thing an average racer can do is not to copy a fast guy setup, but rather to learn what effects certain changes on the car have and then from that information build a set up that feels good FOR YOU.
Typically a stiffer setup will help the car carry more corner speed, and I usually like things like harder tires (if the track will allow), stiffer sway bars (makes the car much more responsive) etc.
I think the "key" settings to keep in mind are things that scrub off speed as you enter the corner if you want to keep the corner speed up..... such as, tires that are too big or too soft (yes the car turns, but it is almost like applying brakes as the tires dig in and scrub off speed) running too much drag brake (many use this as a crutch to "automatically" slow the car, but it is impossible to carry corner speed if everytime you let off the throttle the brakes are being applied!), too much wing, a chassis or body that drags. All of these are things that kill corner speed. Also, having a very free drivetrain will help the car be very smooth through the corners.
I hope this has helped answer your question. Good luck to you, and always remember....... to have fun!
Scott
05-23-2011, 02:42 PM
#1618
Well, I hate to say it, but it is kind of a matter of preference. What works for me may not work for you. However, to try and answer your question.....
When I say "carry maximum corner speed" I am mostly talking about getting the car into the corner carrying as much speed as possible and have it roll that speed through the corner so that you can exit smooth and quick without throwing the car around a lot (which burns up tires and fuel and in most cases loses time). A lot of drivers like to be able to steer the car by having the rear end very free and many top drivers do this very effectively. I prefer to avoid this if possible (sometimes it is not possible and you must make the rear free to rotate the car around some tight turns). I can tell you that almost everyone that has driven my car says it does not steer enough, but, it is what feels good for me. I do think it's very important to note that many of the setups that fast guys run, do not work for the average racer. I also think that the most important thing an average racer can do is not to copy a fast guy setup, but rather to learn what effects certain changes on the car have and then from that information build a set up that feels good FOR YOU.
Typically a stiffer setup will help the car carry more corner speed, and I usually like things like harder tires (if the track will allow), stiffer sway bars (makes the car much more responsive) etc.
I think the "key" settings to keep in mind are things that scrub off speed as you enter the corner if you want to keep the corner speed up..... such as, tires that are too big or too soft (yes the car turns, but it is almost like applying brakes as the tires dig in and scrub off speed) running too much drag brake (many use this as a crutch to "automatically" slow the car, but it is impossible to carry corner speed if everytime you let off the throttle the brakes are being applied!), too much wing, a chassis or body that drags. All of these are things that kill corner speed. Also, having a very free drivetrain will help the car be very smooth through the corners.
I hope this has helped answer your question. Good luck to you, and always remember....... to have fun!
Scott
When I say "carry maximum corner speed" I am mostly talking about getting the car into the corner carrying as much speed as possible and have it roll that speed through the corner so that you can exit smooth and quick without throwing the car around a lot (which burns up tires and fuel and in most cases loses time). A lot of drivers like to be able to steer the car by having the rear end very free and many top drivers do this very effectively. I prefer to avoid this if possible (sometimes it is not possible and you must make the rear free to rotate the car around some tight turns). I can tell you that almost everyone that has driven my car says it does not steer enough, but, it is what feels good for me. I do think it's very important to note that many of the setups that fast guys run, do not work for the average racer. I also think that the most important thing an average racer can do is not to copy a fast guy setup, but rather to learn what effects certain changes on the car have and then from that information build a set up that feels good FOR YOU.
Typically a stiffer setup will help the car carry more corner speed, and I usually like things like harder tires (if the track will allow), stiffer sway bars (makes the car much more responsive) etc.
I think the "key" settings to keep in mind are things that scrub off speed as you enter the corner if you want to keep the corner speed up..... such as, tires that are too big or too soft (yes the car turns, but it is almost like applying brakes as the tires dig in and scrub off speed) running too much drag brake (many use this as a crutch to "automatically" slow the car, but it is impossible to carry corner speed if everytime you let off the throttle the brakes are being applied!), too much wing, a chassis or body that drags. All of these are things that kill corner speed. Also, having a very free drivetrain will help the car be very smooth through the corners.
I hope this has helped answer your question. Good luck to you, and always remember....... to have fun!
Scott
05-23-2011, 09:00 PM
#1619
Tech Regular
Paolo's car
