SMC 40C+ C-Max 7.4V Hardcase Lipos
12-21-2008, 02:46 PM
#76
Im not Danny but, In onroad we are putting all the power down pulling the car out of the corner. In offroad the tires will spin or you ease onto the throttle exiting the corners or hitting the jumps. For example, I ran mod buggy the past week and during 8 minutes of running with a 10.5 I used only roughly 800 mah. This week in Stock sedan using a 17.5 for only 5 minutes I used roughly 2500 mah. In onroad we are always using everything the car can deliver power wise. Offroad you just carry all that power around to make some jumps.
12-21-2008, 03:10 PM
#77
Yes I have heard that 1/8th scales were pretty hard on there packs as I was asked by Novak to send them some of our packs as they were having trouble keeping packs working. We sent them 2 of our 4000/28C packs and they still use them to this date which seems to have impressed them.
My reasoning why mod sedan would be harder is that there using more capacity in a shorter time. From what I understand you need to be able to do 10 minutes run in 8th scale. So this means the amps being pulled would be lower.
So one of the reasons the 8th scale guys could be having issues is with all the cheaper and falsely labelled packs out on the market. It seems like many racers/consumers seem to want to save when it comes to there packs but I can guarantee that the materials used will have an impact on cycle life but will also have an impact on the price.
My reasoning why mod sedan would be harder is that there using more capacity in a shorter time. From what I understand you need to be able to do 10 minutes run in 8th scale. So this means the amps being pulled would be lower.
So one of the reasons the 8th scale guys could be having issues is with all the cheaper and falsely labelled packs out on the market. It seems like many racers/consumers seem to want to save when it comes to there packs but I can guarantee that the materials used will have an impact on cycle life but will also have an impact on the price.
12-21-2008, 03:57 PM
#78
the whole 10 minute thing however isn't starting quite yet. Most 1/8 scale conversions were running primarily nitro mains which can vary between 15 - 30 minutes, with some doing pack swaps, others mainly the 20 minute main running the entire pack till cutoff usually.
Packs that have been puffed have ranged from cheaper brands all the way to known good packs like those using Enerland cells. it really depends on what kind of setup what used and cell count. good thing though (bad if it happens to you), we find out really quick whose packs perform and whose doesn't.
I think we will be seeing less of this though with C ratings going up as they are.
Danny, not sure if you can tell use this, but what brand of cells are in your packs? I know that companies like Orion are proud to put Kokam brand cells label on there batteries as they are known for quality, others Enerland.
Packs that have been puffed have ranged from cheaper brands all the way to known good packs like those using Enerland cells. it really depends on what kind of setup what used and cell count. good thing though (bad if it happens to you), we find out really quick whose packs perform and whose doesn't.
I think we will be seeing less of this though with C ratings going up as they are.
Danny, not sure if you can tell use this, but what brand of cells are in your packs? I know that companies like Orion are proud to put Kokam brand cells label on there batteries as they are known for quality, others Enerland.
12-21-2008, 04:05 PM
#79
Hello Jason,
As a Lipo manufacturer, I would like to remind you to check carefully before you post the data (graph) to the public. Many of us may not acknowledge the natural performance platform of a ture 40C discharge rate Lipo,however the people who actually make the Lipo may figure out the "mistakes" in your graph.
I appreciate that you are trying to be professional on how to test a Lipo pack and find out the fair testing result to show to all the RC racers and players. So I can't help myself to not pointing out some mistakes that show in your graph. I can never understand why don't you test your pack at 2S2P configuration if you do own the equipment to discharge the pack at 200A discharge current?
I have been in the Lipo industry for over 10 years, so I know which Chinese Lipo manufacturer supply TP the bare cells. I do have access to obtain the bare cells from your supplier and conduct the test. You pack shows good performance,however by comparing my test result to your posted graph, I found some "doubts" about your graph.
Doubt #1: You never provide us the actual discharging time of your 1S2P pack, and the time associate with the drop of voltage. It takes only 4 to 5 seconds to discahrge the pack in 200A to have the voltage dropped from 4.2V to 3.5V. But it takes much longer time to have the voltage dropped to 3.5V according to your graph which I find impossible for a cell or a pack to hold its voltage above 3.5V at such a long time under 200A discharging current.
Doubt#2:According to my test, around 300mAh was able to discharge from a 1S2P pack when the voltage dropped to 3.5V (120mAh for a bare cell). However, according to your curve, the dischage out capacity was over 700mAh already when the voltage dropped to 3.5V. It is really not logical according to the performance platform of a 40C pack.
Doubt#3: The discharging performance platform for a ture 40C pack with the effective discharging voltage is from 3.5V to 3.25V. Not much capacity can be discharged above 3.5V and also below 3.25V. According to your graph, your effective discharging platform is from 3.8V to 3.3V. If it is the turth, I will assume that your pack can be discharged out over 95% of its capacity when under 200A discharging current!? You either find the top of the world Lipo supplier to produce such kind of "super" cell for you or your supplier is making you a handmake graph.
According to my test result, TP did come up with a good 40C Lipo pack. But when it comes to provide the graph with the ture data to show to the consumers, all the data must be faithful. Please change the "mAh" to "Ah" in your graph. As a lipo manufacturer, I just can't stand to see a perfromance graph of a Lipo pack being conducted in such an unreasonable and unprofessional way.
As a Lipo manufacturer, I would like to remind you to check carefully before you post the data (graph) to the public. Many of us may not acknowledge the natural performance platform of a ture 40C discharge rate Lipo,however the people who actually make the Lipo may figure out the "mistakes" in your graph.
I appreciate that you are trying to be professional on how to test a Lipo pack and find out the fair testing result to show to all the RC racers and players. So I can't help myself to not pointing out some mistakes that show in your graph. I can never understand why don't you test your pack at 2S2P configuration if you do own the equipment to discharge the pack at 200A discharge current?
I have been in the Lipo industry for over 10 years, so I know which Chinese Lipo manufacturer supply TP the bare cells. I do have access to obtain the bare cells from your supplier and conduct the test. You pack shows good performance,however by comparing my test result to your posted graph, I found some "doubts" about your graph.
Doubt #1: You never provide us the actual discharging time of your 1S2P pack, and the time associate with the drop of voltage. It takes only 4 to 5 seconds to discahrge the pack in 200A to have the voltage dropped from 4.2V to 3.5V. But it takes much longer time to have the voltage dropped to 3.5V according to your graph which I find impossible for a cell or a pack to hold its voltage above 3.5V at such a long time under 200A discharging current.
Doubt#2:According to my test, around 300mAh was able to discharge from a 1S2P pack when the voltage dropped to 3.5V (120mAh for a bare cell). However, according to your curve, the dischage out capacity was over 700mAh already when the voltage dropped to 3.5V. It is really not logical according to the performance platform of a 40C pack.
Doubt#3: The discharging performance platform for a ture 40C pack with the effective discharging voltage is from 3.5V to 3.25V. Not much capacity can be discharged above 3.5V and also below 3.25V. According to your graph, your effective discharging platform is from 3.8V to 3.3V. If it is the turth, I will assume that your pack can be discharged out over 95% of its capacity when under 200A discharging current!? You either find the top of the world Lipo supplier to produce such kind of "super" cell for you or your supplier is making you a handmake graph.
According to my test result, TP did come up with a good 40C Lipo pack. But when it comes to provide the graph with the ture data to show to the consumers, all the data must be faithful. Please change the "mAh" to "Ah" in your graph. As a lipo manufacturer, I just can't stand to see a perfromance graph of a Lipo pack being conducted in such an unreasonable and unprofessional way.
12-21-2008, 04:05 PM
#80
Thanks for the info on the 8th scale packs. All I know is that ours seem to have been doing very well in this application based off what Charlie at Novak told me.
For your information our 2200/25C flight packs have been holding up 4 times more than Enerland cells based from what the guys testing them have been telling us.
Sorry can't say who makes our cells as even if I would give the name it would mean nothing to you guys as they are very low key. They only do RC Lipos for SMC the rest of the sales is in another markets.
For your information our 2200/25C flight packs have been holding up 4 times more than Enerland cells based from what the guys testing them have been telling us.
Sorry can't say who makes our cells as even if I would give the name it would mean nothing to you guys as they are very low key. They only do RC Lipos for SMC the rest of the sales is in another markets.
12-21-2008, 04:17 PM
#82
A month or so ago I asked one of the guys who has been testing our 2200s in a 3D Heli setup to answer 3 questions to better understand what our packs do different than others he was use to.
Here is his answers to the questions. It sounds like an infomercial but it's what he truly beleives. The guys name is Art Hughes and he has his own website www.arthughesrc.com if you want to see some of his 3D flights.
Power compared to what you use to fly ?
- The output of SMC's is on a completely different level from anything else I have flown (and I have flown batteries from almost every major manufacturer in the hobby). Nothing comes close to what an SMC pack can put out. I'll put any one of my packs against anything else out there the difference will not only be obvious to the pilot, but to anyone watching. Even before you load the head, the SMCs have such lower resistance compared to the other popular packs, that it will increase your rotor RPM's by a few hundred at 100% throttle. Then when you punch out and load up the powertrain, things get even better. They hold higher voltages when loaded down and do not bog out like other packs. This lets you be more aggressive without having to wait for your motor to pick back up lost RPMs caused by inferior batteries.
Consistency of the power compared to what you use to fly ?
- The power is what you notice immediately, but the consistency is what you will appreciate the most from flight to flight. It is very disappointing when flying electric and you get a minute and a half into a flight, and the bulk of the power is gone. Just as you are getting warmed up, your power system is already letting you down. That is no longer a problem since I switched over to SMCs. I constantly find myself over-flying my timers now because SMCs are still putting out serious power at the end of a flight. It takes a lot of discipline to land when you have that much power still on tap at the end of a flight :-).
Cycle life compared to what you use to fly ?
- I have gone through a lot of batteries in the past.... and i mean a lot. I always charge slowly and take care of my equipment, so I just assumed that the short pack life cycle I had before was a property of high output Li-Po's in general when flying them hard. After 30-40 flights, my packs had lost that edge that made them fun to fly initially. I had some packs completely die because of a bad cell, and those that still worked, just didn't retain the power I needed. My SMCs have been a completely different experience. I have yet to have a single cell go bad or puff, even with over 100+ cycles on them, and the power output has remained consistent. I can't tell the difference between my original SMC's, and my newest ones, even though the originals are all well into the 100+ flight category.
Here is his answers to the questions. It sounds like an infomercial but it's what he truly beleives. The guys name is Art Hughes and he has his own website www.arthughesrc.com if you want to see some of his 3D flights.
Power compared to what you use to fly ?
- The output of SMC's is on a completely different level from anything else I have flown (and I have flown batteries from almost every major manufacturer in the hobby). Nothing comes close to what an SMC pack can put out. I'll put any one of my packs against anything else out there the difference will not only be obvious to the pilot, but to anyone watching. Even before you load the head, the SMCs have such lower resistance compared to the other popular packs, that it will increase your rotor RPM's by a few hundred at 100% throttle. Then when you punch out and load up the powertrain, things get even better. They hold higher voltages when loaded down and do not bog out like other packs. This lets you be more aggressive without having to wait for your motor to pick back up lost RPMs caused by inferior batteries.
Consistency of the power compared to what you use to fly ?
- The power is what you notice immediately, but the consistency is what you will appreciate the most from flight to flight. It is very disappointing when flying electric and you get a minute and a half into a flight, and the bulk of the power is gone. Just as you are getting warmed up, your power system is already letting you down. That is no longer a problem since I switched over to SMCs. I constantly find myself over-flying my timers now because SMCs are still putting out serious power at the end of a flight. It takes a lot of discipline to land when you have that much power still on tap at the end of a flight :-).
Cycle life compared to what you use to fly ?
- I have gone through a lot of batteries in the past.... and i mean a lot. I always charge slowly and take care of my equipment, so I just assumed that the short pack life cycle I had before was a property of high output Li-Po's in general when flying them hard. After 30-40 flights, my packs had lost that edge that made them fun to fly initially. I had some packs completely die because of a bad cell, and those that still worked, just didn't retain the power I needed. My SMCs have been a completely different experience. I have yet to have a single cell go bad or puff, even with over 100+ cycles on them, and the power output has remained consistent. I can't tell the difference between my original SMC's, and my newest ones, even though the originals are all well into the 100+ flight category.
12-21-2008, 09:31 PM
#84
we (some friends and i have 4 different lipo packs a
smc 5000 (red pack) 20+ repeaks
smc 4900 sattle 12 repeaks
reedy 5000 15+ repeaks
and a track power 4900 (70+ repeaks)
packs were balanced then charged @ 6amps to 8.44
we did all the discharges @ 20 amps (so we didnt kill these packs ,we do run these)on a GFX35 with v3.0 sotfware
the smc5000 did avg of 7.4 with 4800 didnt get IR(under10.) temp was 105
the smc4900 did avg of 7.47 with 4756 and ir was 8.2 temp was 98
the reedy did avg of 7.34 with 4733 and ir was 14.1 temp was 108
the TP did avg of 7.13 with 4600 and ir of around 36.3 temp was 105
was slighty disapointed with the ##s we took these 2 hours after the race tonight it is a reference point for us but thought it might be something to look at for everyone else
it is wenter time so this may have alot to do with the #s but i must say that the deans connector extention on the TP pack is weak it got very hot by the middle of the discharge(120+)so this may be part of the low avg of the TP pack
all of the other deans connectons were under (90)
smc 5000 (red pack) 20+ repeaks
smc 4900 sattle 12 repeaks
reedy 5000 15+ repeaks
and a track power 4900 (70+ repeaks)
packs were balanced then charged @ 6amps to 8.44
we did all the discharges @ 20 amps (so we didnt kill these packs ,we do run these)on a GFX35 with v3.0 sotfware
the smc5000 did avg of 7.4 with 4800 didnt get IR(under10.) temp was 105
the smc4900 did avg of 7.47 with 4756 and ir was 8.2 temp was 98
the reedy did avg of 7.34 with 4733 and ir was 14.1 temp was 108
the TP did avg of 7.13 with 4600 and ir of around 36.3 temp was 105
was slighty disapointed with the ##s we took these 2 hours after the race tonight it is a reference point for us but thought it might be something to look at for everyone else
it is wenter time so this may have alot to do with the #s but i must say that the deans connector extention on the TP pack is weak it got very hot by the middle of the discharge(120+)so this may be part of the low avg of the TP pack
all of the other deans connectons were under (90)
Last edited by jlfx car audio; 12-21-2008 at 10:11 PM.
12-21-2008, 09:49 PM
#85
You know when you kick an ant hill, how all the little worker ants run around like crazy and look all frantic and scared? Yeah, that's this thread.
SMC needs it's own sub-forum. All your threads are making the on-road section harder to navigate. Why aren't you guys in the manufacturers section like everybody else?
SMC needs it's own sub-forum. All your threads are making the on-road section harder to navigate. Why aren't you guys in the manufacturers section like everybody else?
12-21-2008, 10:05 PM
#87
You know when you kick an ant hill, how all the little worker ants run around like crazy and look all frantic and scared? Yeah, that's this thread.
SMC needs it's own sub-forum. All your threads are making the on-road section harder to navigate. Why aren't you guys in the manufacturers section like everybody else?
SMC needs it's own sub-forum. All your threads are making the on-road section harder to navigate. Why aren't you guys in the manufacturers section like everybody else?
Why is it harder to navigate ? If you don't like reading about SMC packs just read something else. The fact your posting on this thread means you read it.
You wouldn't happen to be related to Syndrome ? Your comment sounds like something he would say.
12-21-2008, 10:09 PM
#88
we (some friends and i have 4 different lipo packs a
smc 5000 (red pack) 20+ repeaks
smc 4900 sattle 12 repeaks
reedy 5000 15+ repeaks
and a track power 4900 (70+ repeaks)
packs were balanced then charged @ 6amps to 8.44
we did all the discharges @ 20 amps (so we didnt kill these packs ,we do run these)on a GFX35 with v3.0 sotfware
the smc5000 did avg of 7.4 with 4800 didnt get IR(under10.) temp was 105
the smc4900 did avg of 7.47 with 4756 and ir was 8.2 temp was 98
the reedy did avg of 7.34 with 4733 and ir was 14.1 temp was 108
and the used TP did a avg of 7.0 with 4756 and ir of around 30 temp was 110
was slighty disapointed with the ##s we took these 2 hours after the race tonight it is a reference point for us but thought it might be something to look at for everyone else
it is wenter time so this may have alot to do with the #s but i must say that the corraly connectors get very hot by the middle of the discharge(120+)so this may be part of the low avg of the TP pack
all of the deans connectons were under (90)
smc 5000 (red pack) 20+ repeaks
smc 4900 sattle 12 repeaks
reedy 5000 15+ repeaks
and a track power 4900 (70+ repeaks)
packs were balanced then charged @ 6amps to 8.44
we did all the discharges @ 20 amps (so we didnt kill these packs ,we do run these)on a GFX35 with v3.0 sotfware
the smc5000 did avg of 7.4 with 4800 didnt get IR(under10.) temp was 105
the smc4900 did avg of 7.47 with 4756 and ir was 8.2 temp was 98
the reedy did avg of 7.34 with 4733 and ir was 14.1 temp was 108
and the used TP did a avg of 7.0 with 4756 and ir of around 30 temp was 110
was slighty disapointed with the ##s we took these 2 hours after the race tonight it is a reference point for us but thought it might be something to look at for everyone else
it is wenter time so this may have alot to do with the #s but i must say that the corraly connectors get very hot by the middle of the discharge(120+)so this may be part of the low avg of the TP pack
all of the deans connectons were under (90)
Where were the voltage sensing leads attached ?
What was the room and pack temperature at the start of the cycle ?
How did you charge at 8.44 ?
12-21-2008, 10:28 PM
#89
You wouldn't happen to be related to Syndrome ? Your comment sounds like something he would say.
12-22-2008, 02:26 AM
#90
Is the release date finalised yet? There's nothing wrong with my 28C SMCs but I'm still hanging out to pick up a couple of these. In 10.5, my car is always one of the quickest down the straight and it's gotta be down to the power because people are using the same motor and rollout, 40C should continue the trend 