Lipo confusion
08-10-2008, 12:22 PM
#16
The number one reason why racers quit RC racing is because they want to win and unfortunately there can only be one winner. To many think that buying the latest and greatest will equal to winning but in fact driving and car setup is the key when it comes to racing. When it comes to oval speed is more important so that is why racers focus on batteries and motors but if you have a spec class the guy who was winning in the open class will most likely when in the spec class as car setup is probably more critical when everything is the same.
RC racing should be treated as any other hobby/sport where you do it because you enjoy it not to win at all cost. How many play golf and suck at it but still play because it's fun for them. So the goal as an RC racer should be to enjoy it and have fun.
It gets kind of old to hear that racers quit because of batteries especially the oval racers who are buying 10 BL rotors and cans to try and build a motor with a bit better speed. So what if you need to buy a new Lipo every year or 6 months to stay as competitive as possible. It's still better than buying 2-3 sub-c packs that lose performance as you use them and if your lucky and stay on top of them they will stay good for 6 months or a year.
RC racing should be treated as any other hobby/sport where you do it because you enjoy it not to win at all cost. How many play golf and suck at it but still play because it's fun for them. So the goal as an RC racer should be to enjoy it and have fun.
It gets kind of old to hear that racers quit because of batteries especially the oval racers who are buying 10 BL rotors and cans to try and build a motor with a bit better speed. So what if you need to buy a new Lipo every year or 6 months to stay as competitive as possible. It's still better than buying 2-3 sub-c packs that lose performance as you use them and if your lucky and stay on top of them they will stay good for 6 months or a year.
08-10-2008, 12:30 PM
#17
It gets kind of old to hear that racers quit because of batteries especially the oval racers who are buying 10 BL rotors and cans to try and build a motor with a bit better speed.
YOU See 2-3% of guys who OVERSPEND and HAVE to have the MOST and NEWEST STUFF and you use that at YOUR benchmark.
I see the guy/guys who RACE because they LOVE Racing - buy only ONE or TWO New Motors a year, and could be really happy to get 2 years out of 4 packs of batteries.
(I see the OTHER GUYS too - but they should NEVER be the guys who DRIVE rules)
I have guys that use to buy 2 new NiMh's a MONTH minimum - but they are the MINORITY.
I also have guys who would buy MAYBE 2 NEW packs a YEAR - but would LOVE the years they didn't HAVE to.
As it gets OLD for you to HEAR about guys who QUIT because of Batteries - it equally gets old hearing - hey the big race is 2 weeks away - and guess what - there's a NEW BATTERY that BLOWS last weeks battery away.
REALITY? Probably Not! PERCEPTION? Certainly - and PERCEPTION drives much more of the market than 'Reality'
oh and BTW - NOT One of the guys I've ever raced against...that QUIT - QUIT because 'They COULDN'T WIN' - but a LOT of people like to THINK that's why guys quit.
IF Winning or the LACK OF IT were a cause to QUIT - I would have QUIT 22 1/2 years ago myself. In 23 years, I may have won 25 - 30 races...out of about 1200 - 1300 races.
...it's NOT about WINNING - it's about COMPETITION
08-10-2008, 12:37 PM
#18
so joe from what i have read..
1)you want smc to go away and or stop making a better mouse trap
2)you want all the other brushless motor manufacturers to go away and leave only novak
3)you want everyone to run one type and brand foam tire
4)you want to ban all oval cars except one manufacturer car and he has to promise to only make an update every 5 years
5)only one type of oval body
6)only one brand esc and no pro models for sure
look every series/track promoter in the country makes up there own rules....
than a company abides by those rules and follows them to a tee..and they still cry foul!
i commend danny for making a btter mouse trap and for his efforts to put his 3200 lipo pack at the top of the list! that is his life blood..it is what pays his bills....
as far as keeping speeds down being your passion....
lipo how in the hell ghas lipo helped to keep speeds down in oval racing? and you took to lipo like a fish to water....
we have no answers for a slow sportsman like class for oval now...
4 cell/stock was great for novice oval drivers...now it's gone....
lipo's come out every week and each one is supposed to be btter than the last and all are roar approved.....
in your 23 years of racing/promoting have you ever heard of the hobby slowing down?no new products new batteriesnew esc's new tires new chargers new servos......nope when it does slow down racing is dead....
you control the rules of your series...you have the clay in your hands....you get to mold your series around the fanatsy world you live in....
stop complaining and do something about it...control what you can control..your series..... get R done
1)you want smc to go away and or stop making a better mouse trap
2)you want all the other brushless motor manufacturers to go away and leave only novak
3)you want everyone to run one type and brand foam tire
4)you want to ban all oval cars except one manufacturer car and he has to promise to only make an update every 5 years
5)only one type of oval body
6)only one brand esc and no pro models for sure
look every series/track promoter in the country makes up there own rules....
than a company abides by those rules and follows them to a tee..and they still cry foul!
i commend danny for making a btter mouse trap and for his efforts to put his 3200 lipo pack at the top of the list! that is his life blood..it is what pays his bills....
as far as keeping speeds down being your passion....
lipo how in the hell ghas lipo helped to keep speeds down in oval racing? and you took to lipo like a fish to water....
we have no answers for a slow sportsman like class for oval now...
4 cell/stock was great for novice oval drivers...now it's gone....
lipo's come out every week and each one is supposed to be btter than the last and all are roar approved.....
in your 23 years of racing/promoting have you ever heard of the hobby slowing down?no new products new batteriesnew esc's new tires new chargers new servos......nope when it does slow down racing is dead....
you control the rules of your series...you have the clay in your hands....you get to mold your series around the fanatsy world you live in....
stop complaining and do something about it...control what you can control..your series..... get R done
Last edited by MOTHER FOCAR; 08-10-2008 at 04:12 PM.
08-10-2008, 12:48 PM
#19
I believe BL motors with more wire will be tested to slow the cars down and can be a solution. Were trying to come out with a single cell Lipo pack as an other option to slow cars down for the classes that need the slower speeds. We will have a hardcase single cell Lipo in Vegas to show and demonstrate. Our goal is to come out with a solution for the 12th scale roadcourse guys and this could be used by oval classes.
08-10-2008, 12:50 PM
#20
Tech Fanatic
Maybe THAT right there is part of what you don't understand...
YOU See 2-3% of guys who OVERSPEND and HAVE to have the MOST and NEWEST STUFF and you use that at YOUR benchmark.
I see the guy/guys who RACE because they LOVE Racing - buy only ONE or TWO New Motors a year, and could be really happy to get 2 years out of 4 packs of batteries.
(I see the OTHER GUYS too - but they should NEVER be the guys who DRIVE rules)
I have guys that use to buy 2 new NiMh's a MONTH minimum - but they are the MINORITY.
I also have guys who would buy MAYBE 2 NEW packs a YEAR - but would LOVE the years they didn't HAVE to.
As it gets OLD for you to HEAR about guys who QUIT because of Batteries - it equally gets old hearing - hey the big race is 2 weeks away - and guess what - there's a NEW BATTERY that BLOWS last weeks battery away.
REALITY? Probably Not! PERCEPTION? Certainly - and PERCEPTION drives much more of the market than 'Reality'
oh and BTW - NOT One of the guys I've ever raced against...that QUIT - QUIT because 'They COULDN'T WIN' - but a LOT of people like to THINK that's why guys quit.
IF Winning or the LACK OF IT were a cause to QUIT - I would have QUIT 22 1/2 years ago myself. In 23 years, I may have won 25 - 30 races...out of about 1200 - 1300 races.
...it's NOT about WINNING - it's about COMPETITION
YOU See 2-3% of guys who OVERSPEND and HAVE to have the MOST and NEWEST STUFF and you use that at YOUR benchmark.
I see the guy/guys who RACE because they LOVE Racing - buy only ONE or TWO New Motors a year, and could be really happy to get 2 years out of 4 packs of batteries.
(I see the OTHER GUYS too - but they should NEVER be the guys who DRIVE rules)
I have guys that use to buy 2 new NiMh's a MONTH minimum - but they are the MINORITY.
I also have guys who would buy MAYBE 2 NEW packs a YEAR - but would LOVE the years they didn't HAVE to.
As it gets OLD for you to HEAR about guys who QUIT because of Batteries - it equally gets old hearing - hey the big race is 2 weeks away - and guess what - there's a NEW BATTERY that BLOWS last weeks battery away.
REALITY? Probably Not! PERCEPTION? Certainly - and PERCEPTION drives much more of the market than 'Reality'
oh and BTW - NOT One of the guys I've ever raced against...that QUIT - QUIT because 'They COULDN'T WIN' - but a LOT of people like to THINK that's why guys quit.
IF Winning or the LACK OF IT were a cause to QUIT - I would have QUIT 22 1/2 years ago myself. In 23 years, I may have won 25 - 30 races...out of about 1200 - 1300 races.
...it's NOT about WINNING - it's about COMPETITION
08-10-2008, 12:53 PM
#21
Good Try Katf1sh,
But there is NO complaining FIRST OFF (That comes from YOU)
2nd - I did NOT take to LIPO quick, easy, or "Like a FISH to WATER"
I fought against it for 2 1/2 years -
3rd - NEVER ONCE in ANY post I've made have I asked TECHNOLOGY to SLOW, STOP, or even CHANGE directions.
4th - I've NEVER asked for ANY Car/Chassis to be BANNED (So you are once again WRONG)
5th - I've NEVER Pushed ONE Type/MFG. body (oops, WRONG again)
6th - I've never pushed for ONE Mfg. ESC (Man, can you get ANYTHING right?)
What I did ask/look for when trying to find a nice ground for racers - was to build products that are competitive with each other. But just like DANNY said here today
It's NOT about building an INFERIOR product - it's about building on the same LEVEL.
7th - I don't want SMC to "Go Away", and was somewhat excited to see them getting into the 3200 market...until it was obvious they wern't going to play by the same socalled RULES as everyone else who was building equipment fairly EQUAL to each other. (So...man, once again - WRONG)
8th - NOVAK ONLY - NOPE, what I actually want is a BLUE PRINT with EVERY freakin "Gray Area" removed - and IF ANY company wants to build a PRODUCT that FITS that BLUE PRINT welcome them... YOU Seem to forget - I was the one (and w/ JB's help) FOUGHT for OPEN Mfg's in the 19t Market, cause IMHO TRINITY couldn't get it right.
I do NOT want CLOSED MARKETS - But I do want SOLID, No GRAY Area RULES that MFG's can NOT Manipulate to build a BETTER ANYTHING.
9th - Oh and you are ONCE AGAIN WRONG on TIRES!
But there is NO complaining FIRST OFF (That comes from YOU)
2nd - I did NOT take to LIPO quick, easy, or "Like a FISH to WATER"
I fought against it for 2 1/2 years -
3rd - NEVER ONCE in ANY post I've made have I asked TECHNOLOGY to SLOW, STOP, or even CHANGE directions.
4th - I've NEVER asked for ANY Car/Chassis to be BANNED (So you are once again WRONG)
5th - I've NEVER Pushed ONE Type/MFG. body (oops, WRONG again)
6th - I've never pushed for ONE Mfg. ESC (Man, can you get ANYTHING right?)
What I did ask/look for when trying to find a nice ground for racers - was to build products that are competitive with each other. But just like DANNY said here today
Why would we build an inferior pack just because that is what others are doing ?
7th - I don't want SMC to "Go Away", and was somewhat excited to see them getting into the 3200 market...until it was obvious they wern't going to play by the same socalled RULES as everyone else who was building equipment fairly EQUAL to each other. (So...man, once again - WRONG)
8th - NOVAK ONLY - NOPE, what I actually want is a BLUE PRINT with EVERY freakin "Gray Area" removed - and IF ANY company wants to build a PRODUCT that FITS that BLUE PRINT welcome them... YOU Seem to forget - I was the one (and w/ JB's help) FOUGHT for OPEN Mfg's in the 19t Market, cause IMHO TRINITY couldn't get it right.
I do NOT want CLOSED MARKETS - But I do want SOLID, No GRAY Area RULES that MFG's can NOT Manipulate to build a BETTER ANYTHING.
9th - Oh and you are ONCE AGAIN WRONG on TIRES!
08-10-2008, 12:57 PM
#23
...and if you were sponsored and had better batteries you would have won hundreds of those races.
WINNING is Work - and when I was WINNING I had to treat this HOBBY like a Freakin' Job (Oh and I was SPONSORED then) and it TOOK most of the fun and enjoyment OUT of this HOBBY.
08-10-2008, 01:02 PM
#24
Tech Fanatic
Last time I checked, we ARE playing by the rules....ROAR rules. You are crying on this thread and over at Hobbytalk about our cells. Get over it! They are legal and people like them. At least they are not discontinued.
08-10-2008, 01:30 PM
#25
I love this 
So many people said Lipo's were the cure for all that ails electric racing.
I have the solution, GO NITRO
Sorry, I love electric racing too but I just had to say it.
If SMC made a pack that was THE SAME as everything else out there and what I already have why would I buy it? Also, if they made this pack knowing full well that they could make a better pack, that would be an inferior product.
So many people said Lipo's were the cure for all that ails electric racing.
I have the solution, GO NITRO
Sorry, I love electric racing too but I just had to say it.
If SMC made a pack that was THE SAME as everything else out there and what I already have why would I buy it? Also, if they made this pack knowing full well that they could make a better pack, that would be an inferior product.
08-10-2008, 01:43 PM
#26
Its amazing that someone is suggesting creating products equal to there competators.
So xray should dummy down there next touring car so that they dont beat the competition by to to much??
Oh and that damn kyosho company making that dominating 1/8th buggy for some 10plus years its not fair they should copy 2nd places designs instead
I dont get it. They build to ROAR rules and built a better pack.... and this somehow is wrong? Im confused
Maybe they should start working on a 10C 3200 so they dont upset the competition so much
So xray should dummy down there next touring car so that they dont beat the competition by to to much??
Oh and that damn kyosho company making that dominating 1/8th buggy for some 10plus years its not fair they should copy 2nd places designs instead
I dont get it. They build to ROAR rules and built a better pack.... and this somehow is wrong? Im confused
Maybe they should start working on a 10C 3200 so they dont upset the competition so much
08-10-2008, 01:54 PM
#28
What I love is - I get beat up cause I want to see companies build products that can go HEAD TO HEAD with each other - and the DRIVER's CAN SETTLE who's the better driver...NOT the DRIVER with the BETTER Equip.
Yet, at the same time I have guys tell me stuff like "Well, the SNOWBIRDS or the IIC or the Reedy ROC" does this or that.. (Which are NOT Roar Sanctioned Events...yet some of THE BIGGEST and MOST ATTENDED Races in the WORLD)
And THOSE races do use SPECIFIC
TIRES
MOTORS
and I won't be suprised to see BATTERIES included on that list for '09.
If companies built products that could compete HEAD to HEAD, "Spec" SINGLE product type races wouldn't NEED to happen...
Yet, at the same time I have guys tell me stuff like "Well, the SNOWBIRDS or the IIC or the Reedy ROC" does this or that.. (Which are NOT Roar Sanctioned Events...yet some of THE BIGGEST and MOST ATTENDED Races in the WORLD)
And THOSE races do use SPECIFIC
TIRES
MOTORS
and I won't be suprised to see BATTERIES included on that list for '09.
If companies built products that could compete HEAD to HEAD, "Spec" SINGLE product type races wouldn't NEED to happen...
08-10-2008, 01:55 PM
#29
Our 3200 pack will be used by the BRL racing series as there spec pack for 21.5 class. We talked to our supplier and we informed him that we want the 3200 pack to stay the same from batch to batch and see if we can supply it for atleast 2 years. Our supplier confirmed that he can do this so now oval racers or aany other class that is looking for a spec style Lipo pack can use our pack and know that it will not be discontinued or improved.
It's a bit strange to be treated like were screwing things up when in fact were trying to help out.
Our supplier is very agressive and understands that pack performance is very important when it comes to racing. We will continue to push the limits with our 5000 pack and possibly the 4000 but we will leave the 3200 alone.
It's a bit strange to be treated like were screwing things up when in fact were trying to help out.
Our supplier is very agressive and understands that pack performance is very important when it comes to racing. We will continue to push the limits with our 5000 pack and possibly the 4000 but we will leave the 3200 alone.
08-10-2008, 01:59 PM
#30
After dealing with lipos for a few years, I've come up with a few personal rules of thumb:
I Look at the discharge graph for a certain type of battery if it's available.
Then I find the ampdraw of my setup (27t class) and look for a battery that will supply that amount of current constantly for a time you find comfortable.
I find mAh is more important than a C rating. Example: a 5200mah battery that can supply 20C rating (104 amps constant) is better than a battery that's 3200mah with a 30C rating (96 amps sustained or burst).
I Look at the discharge graph for a certain type of battery if it's available.
Then I find the ampdraw of my setup (27t class) and look for a battery that will supply that amount of current constantly for a time you find comfortable.
I find mAh is more important than a C rating. Example: a 5200mah battery that can supply 20C rating (104 amps constant) is better than a battery that's 3200mah with a 30C rating (96 amps sustained or burst).
Last edited by Sabin; 08-10-2008 at 02:09 PM.