2008 1/12th Euros, Germany
04-06-2008, 09:09 AM
#16
Final Results:
1 Marc Rheinard - Hot Bodies / SMC / Checkpoint
2 Andy Moore - Hot Bodies / Orion
3 Ronald Volker - Hot Bodies / LRP
4 Hupo Honigl - CRC / Orion
5 Alex Hagberg - CRC / LRP
6 Simo Ahoniemi - Corally / Corally
7 Sakke Ahoniemi - Corally / Corally
8 Bernhard Bopp - ??
9 Andy Griffiths - Hot Bodies / Nosram
10 Marc Fischer - Corally / GM
1 Marc Rheinard - Hot Bodies / SMC / Checkpoint
2 Andy Moore - Hot Bodies / Orion
3 Ronald Volker - Hot Bodies / LRP
4 Hupo Honigl - CRC / Orion
5 Alex Hagberg - CRC / LRP
6 Simo Ahoniemi - Corally / Corally
7 Sakke Ahoniemi - Corally / Corally
8 Bernhard Bopp - ??
9 Andy Griffiths - Hot Bodies / Nosram
10 Marc Fischer - Corally / GM
04-06-2008, 11:26 AM
#17
Tech Regular
Hi,
just came back from the Euros.
Great weekend, perfect organisation.
Thanks to the SLR Ingolstadt for the great event and to AUDI for the great dinner at their restaurant.
Regarding the tire issue:
JACO and CS tires have been banned on friday from the event because they've been .4mm too large. I trued them all the way down to the rim and found the same issue with our CS tires as the JACOs had.
I found it kind of sad that the decision was made to ban the tires. I think around 90% of the participants would have chosen the JACOs or the CS tires. And most of them already had them in their boxes. In my opinion it wasn't in the interest of equality of chances for all racers but the main interest was for a certain manufacturer to sell more tires...
Only my opinion... I'm 100% for the existing rules but it can't be in the interest of the racers and the growing 12th scale class that you had to buy different tires than you already had with you... Certain manufacturers knew about this issue for weeks but decided not to inform the EFRA or the racers so they could buy different kind of tires. They choose to force all drivers which came to the Euros with JACOs/CS tires to buy their tires to the price they demanded.
Not the best way to support the sport... Sorry...
@Jack: As we meassured the rims we came to the conclusion that the 38.3xxxmm are 1.5 inch. Is it correct that the rims have been designed to bei 1.5 inch? Just interested.
Cheers
Chris
just came back from the Euros.
Great weekend, perfect organisation.
Thanks to the SLR Ingolstadt for the great event and to AUDI for the great dinner at their restaurant.
Regarding the tire issue:
JACO and CS tires have been banned on friday from the event because they've been .4mm too large. I trued them all the way down to the rim and found the same issue with our CS tires as the JACOs had.
I found it kind of sad that the decision was made to ban the tires. I think around 90% of the participants would have chosen the JACOs or the CS tires. And most of them already had them in their boxes. In my opinion it wasn't in the interest of equality of chances for all racers but the main interest was for a certain manufacturer to sell more tires...
Only my opinion... I'm 100% for the existing rules but it can't be in the interest of the racers and the growing 12th scale class that you had to buy different tires than you already had with you... Certain manufacturers knew about this issue for weeks but decided not to inform the EFRA or the racers so they could buy different kind of tires. They choose to force all drivers which came to the Euros with JACOs/CS tires to buy their tires to the price they demanded.
Not the best way to support the sport... Sorry...
@Jack: As we meassured the rims we came to the conclusion that the 38.3xxxmm are 1.5 inch. Is it correct that the rims have been designed to bei 1.5 inch? Just interested.
Cheers
Chris
04-06-2008, 03:15 PM
#18
Tech Master
The rear 1/12 wheels are hardly "much too big". Approximately .2mm to be precise. We became aware of this at the ROAR nationals a couple weeks ago and the mold is being modified as we speak to conform to IFMAR rules. Our original drawing shows a wheel with a 38mm outside diameter, however when it was molded, it came in at 38.2mm. I find it interesting that there is no mention of other manufacturers' wheels being too large, since I know of at least 2 other companies who have wheels that don't comply.
Regardless, I apologize to our drivers and other participants at the event who were planning on running our tires. We will get the new wheels to our distributors as soon as they arrive. If you are unable to run your current JACO rear tires, we will gladly replace them with the new ones. Despite rumors to the contrary, this was not an attempt to "bend" the rules. Our product will continue to dominate 1/12 racing.... even on a .2mm smaller rim.
Regardless, I apologize to our drivers and other participants at the event who were planning on running our tires. We will get the new wheels to our distributors as soon as they arrive. If you are unable to run your current JACO rear tires, we will gladly replace them with the new ones. Despite rumors to the contrary, this was not an attempt to "bend" the rules. Our product will continue to dominate 1/12 racing.... even on a .2mm smaller rim.
Congratiolations to Marc!
Well done Alexander!
04-06-2008, 03:43 PM
#19
Tech Fanatic
The wheel was actually designed to be 38mm. Josh Cyrul designed it and re-sent me the drawings to confirm (I already knew, but he wanted me to know it was not his fault). When I contacted our molder, they said that the amount the wheel was over was standard molding tolerance. Since we did not demand that they not exceed 38mm, they assumed these tolerances were acceptable. This is our fault for not stressing the point.
Last edited by Jack Rimer; 04-07-2008 at 04:52 AM.
04-07-2008, 02:06 AM
#20
Good morning everybody, back at work... it was a nice event and despite the already mentioned issues about the wheels it was a good race with great racing and everybody seemed to enjoy themselves on and off the track.
The correct Top10 are as following (car/motor/battery/speedo), just not completely sure on the Corally drivers motors and cells:
1 Marc Rheinard - HB / Checkpoint / SMC / LRP
2 Andy Moore - HB / Orion / Orion / Nosram
3 Ronald Volker - HB / LRP / LRP / LRP
4 Hupo Honigl - CRC / LRP / LRP / LRP
5 Alex Hagberg - CRC / LRP / LRP / LRP
6 Simo Ahoniemi - Corally / Corally / Corally / GM
7 Sakke Ahoniemi - Corally / Corally / Corally / GM
8 Bernhard Bopp - CRC / LRP / LRP / LRP
9 Andy Griffiths - HB / Nosram / Nosram / Nosram
10 Marc Fischer - Corally / GM / GM / GM
The correct Top10 are as following (car/motor/battery/speedo), just not completely sure on the Corally drivers motors and cells:
1 Marc Rheinard - HB / Checkpoint / SMC / LRP
2 Andy Moore - HB / Orion / Orion / Nosram
3 Ronald Volker - HB / LRP / LRP / LRP
4 Hupo Honigl - CRC / LRP / LRP / LRP
5 Alex Hagberg - CRC / LRP / LRP / LRP
6 Simo Ahoniemi - Corally / Corally / Corally / GM
7 Sakke Ahoniemi - Corally / Corally / Corally / GM
8 Bernhard Bopp - CRC / LRP / LRP / LRP
9 Andy Griffiths - HB / Nosram / Nosram / Nosram
10 Marc Fischer - Corally / GM / GM / GM
04-07-2008, 03:49 AM
#21
Did Jaco pass this finding on to IFMAR's Member Blocks so they could inform their Member Countries that the Jaco rim may be an issue @ forthcoming International meetings?
04-07-2008, 04:50 AM
#22
Tech Fanatic
No, because we immediately set forth to change the mold so all tires sent out in the future would conform. As it is the end of the season, most of the current tires in circulation should be about used up.
04-07-2008, 05:40 AM
#23
comment found on another forum
[QUOTE]
The gentleman who bought the matter to the attention of the EFRA officials was Robert Bachofner, he is registered here as £$%&^*%.
He was the Austrian team manager and is also the distributor of CRC products for mainland europe.
Robert made it quite clear he was not willing to accept any compromise on the Jaco wheel size issue, it would have been the subject of a formal protest if technical inspection had passed any Jaco Prism wheels at the race.[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
The gentleman who bought the matter to the attention of the EFRA officials was Robert Bachofner, he is registered here as £$%&^*%.
He was the Austrian team manager and is also the distributor of CRC products for mainland europe.
Robert made it quite clear he was not willing to accept any compromise on the Jaco wheel size issue, it would have been the subject of a formal protest if technical inspection had passed any Jaco Prism wheels at the race.[QUOTE]
04-07-2008, 06:04 AM
#24
Tech Adept
He guys!
Well.....to be honest....the way the protest was planed in forward was a very rude way.
Me, Andy M. or Fischer have never ever measured a rear Prism wheel before, so we did not know it was too big at any time.
Ok, rules is rules and as Jack said, its Jacos fault....but the protesting person or nation knew that they would protest weeks before the race and did not tell anybody about it.
The protest came out of a "Jaco competitors corner" and I think this has not really improved their situation. Its like kicking the ball in your own field goal. *lol*
Suffering from all this was the normal privateer driver and that is the big shame!!
Greetz,
Markus
Well.....to be honest....the way the protest was planed in forward was a very rude way.
Me, Andy M. or Fischer have never ever measured a rear Prism wheel before, so we did not know it was too big at any time.
Ok, rules is rules and as Jack said, its Jacos fault....but the protesting person or nation knew that they would protest weeks before the race and did not tell anybody about it.
The protest came out of a "Jaco competitors corner" and I think this has not really improved their situation. Its like kicking the ball in your own field goal. *lol*
Suffering from all this was the normal privateer driver and that is the big shame!!
Greetz,
Markus
04-07-2008, 06:40 AM
#26
Tech Fanatic
Of course you could argue that. I'm not sure what we were to do, however. If we inform our distributors that the wheel was too big, there was not enough time to get them our other wheel before the race. I would guess that since the wheels were allowed at the ROAR event they might say it would be worth "taking a chance". Especially, since everyone has been running the wheels for a year without incident. It is easy to reflect in hindsight on what "would" have been the right thing to do. When confronted with the problem in advance, however, you may get a different answer.
04-07-2008, 07:17 AM
#29
Tech Regular
Hi,
for sure you can bring up that argument. The main problem is the way how the protest came up. Noone would have been angry if we knew about the problem 3 weeks before the event. You could have bought different tires and practice with them. But the protest was prepared before the event and just handed in on friday. So in my eyes it would have been possible to protest way earlier before the event if it was really the intention of the protest to save same chances for all drivers... Just my opinion...
As I trued the tires for 4 drivers I can tell you that we had already trued the first sets for practice when the official announcement came that the tires have been banned. And that's something I really can't support. I think most of the drivers had their tires already trued and lost quite a lot of money because of this way of protesting.
Cheers
Chris
for sure you can bring up that argument. The main problem is the way how the protest came up. Noone would have been angry if we knew about the problem 3 weeks before the event. You could have bought different tires and practice with them. But the protest was prepared before the event and just handed in on friday. So in my eyes it would have been possible to protest way earlier before the event if it was really the intention of the protest to save same chances for all drivers... Just my opinion...
As I trued the tires for 4 drivers I can tell you that we had already trued the first sets for practice when the official announcement came that the tires have been banned. And that's something I really can't support. I think most of the drivers had their tires already trued and lost quite a lot of money because of this way of protesting.
Cheers
Chris
04-07-2008, 07:49 AM
#30
What self-centered jackass screws potential customers/privateers at a big event last minute like this? What retarded governing body makes a decision to screw patrons that drops serious coin attending an event like this? If ROAR made a rash decision like this, I'd drop them like a hot rock.
I enjoy going to big races and usually do so on a shoe string budget. If I found out that the tires that I bought ahead of time were illegal last minute at a big event, you can bet there would be a lynch mob banded together to string up the people who run the event - no matter how popular or un-popular they are.
This is prime example of how people are idiots. The products were available months ahead of time for the governing body to scrutinize. Many of the contestants that don't have a tire ride bought their own tires for the event. They had all that time to decide if the tires were legal or not. They should have been allowed for that one event and then banned. This would have been sufficient punishment for both the tire maker and the rat that decided to wait till the last minute to screw all the privateers that had to buy their own equipment.
This is a hobby, not a world governing body where the decisions will effect if someone starves or not.
I enjoy going to big races and usually do so on a shoe string budget. If I found out that the tires that I bought ahead of time were illegal last minute at a big event, you can bet there would be a lynch mob banded together to string up the people who run the event - no matter how popular or un-popular they are.
This is prime example of how people are idiots. The products were available months ahead of time for the governing body to scrutinize. Many of the contestants that don't have a tire ride bought their own tires for the event. They had all that time to decide if the tires were legal or not. They should have been allowed for that one event and then banned. This would have been sufficient punishment for both the tire maker and the rat that decided to wait till the last minute to screw all the privateers that had to buy their own equipment.
This is a hobby, not a world governing body where the decisions will effect if someone starves or not.