Pro10 Class
02-13-2008, 10:35 AM
#511
gThis class was supposed to be brought back as an inexpensive way to run 1/10th class ... This was an attempt to start a class that never could get off the ground by making them inexpensive,fast and fun. Running them on 6 cell and 7.4 volt lipo with low wind motors is not the way to bring new blood to the hobby. There has been alot more people getting out of the hobby than getting in because of price and complexity of the TC. ....
I see what is capable in 1/12 with 4cells and a 200 mm car will only be slightly heavier than those. There are enough classes out there for those that want to go fast and I here there are even Lipo saddle packs that will fit into the 4 cell slots? But the focus of this class seemed to be and MUST stay newbie friendly. 300 is not bad when you consider all the other stuff associated with T/C and all the complexed of setting them up and high parts consumptions. I've seem to many newbies double or more the price of there car purchase just replacing a-arms, hubs, and even chassis. 6 cell will do nothing to help grow our hobbie and it will only further alienate the new person. And if those on the other side of the river don't like us yanks tailoring the class in this directions they can keep running their Euro 5 cells T/C. The buttom line is the hobby desperately need to pull the backyard RC'er into the tracks and hook them on racing. It really is sad to see the turn out dwindle and so many tracks close, going faster won't help that.
02-13-2008, 10:56 AM
#512
Tech Regular
Jason,
To cut costs why don't you bring out a conversion kit (along with the full kit). Take out the items a lot of 12th scalers allready have (like the front end, rear bearings, common diff parts, shock, etc.) I would guess this could come out $225 or so.
To cut costs why don't you bring out a conversion kit (along with the full kit). Take out the items a lot of 12th scalers allready have (like the front end, rear bearings, common diff parts, shock, etc.) I would guess this could come out $225 or so.
02-13-2008, 11:25 AM
#513
The big cost in this project has been development. If the cars were straight from the 1/12th cars and had more common parts, there would be less time and cost to absorb. With having a complet new car with all of these changed parts, It now requires alot more development than it should. The problem i see is that the RC industry is a strange place. In all forms of racing i have done from motocross,BMX,Go karts and road racing, not once did i see any manufacturer make up there own guidelines. They always stayed within specs and that was what we raced. The RC industry is a whole different ballgame. It seems that everyone is out to bury the next guy. Inovation is great and i am all for it but this is just getting out of hand. It started as a
200mm class using GT bodies and 4 cell. Then some wanted to run lipo. Thats fine,you can do it. Now the cars need to take all lipos,6 cell, and run low wind brushless motors. 235mm options is another one. there is no need for it in this class. Why offer it if we are not using it? I am just getting worn out trying to turn my car into all of this. This project has been derailed and doesnt seem to have any direction anymore. Keeping the class 4 cell was the intention to keep the wear and tear down on the electronics, batteries, and the cars themselves. It also keeps the cost down for everyone.
1/12th has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 2 years. The reason for it is low cost,they are simple,they are fast, and they handle great. Some people didnt want to run 1/12th because they like the size and look of 1/10th cars. New people always seem to like the bigger 1/10th cars because they look more durable. This was the answer for those people. All we are doing is taking a nice possible class and running it into the ground.
The cost of making 2 cars is not worth it. The cost is too high to offer 2 cars and inventory both in hopes that the class will take off. I figured i would make a real good car for a real good price and let people have some fun. Too much adjustments and options raise the price and also defeat the purpose of having a simple car. I really am going to rethink my participation in this whole pro10 class push. I dont want to offer just another overly complex car just to toot my own horn.
200mm class using GT bodies and 4 cell. Then some wanted to run lipo. Thats fine,you can do it. Now the cars need to take all lipos,6 cell, and run low wind brushless motors. 235mm options is another one. there is no need for it in this class. Why offer it if we are not using it? I am just getting worn out trying to turn my car into all of this. This project has been derailed and doesnt seem to have any direction anymore. Keeping the class 4 cell was the intention to keep the wear and tear down on the electronics, batteries, and the cars themselves. It also keeps the cost down for everyone.
1/12th has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 2 years. The reason for it is low cost,they are simple,they are fast, and they handle great. Some people didnt want to run 1/12th because they like the size and look of 1/10th cars. New people always seem to like the bigger 1/10th cars because they look more durable. This was the answer for those people. All we are doing is taking a nice possible class and running it into the ground.
The cost of making 2 cars is not worth it. The cost is too high to offer 2 cars and inventory both in hopes that the class will take off. I figured i would make a real good car for a real good price and let people have some fun. Too much adjustments and options raise the price and also defeat the purpose of having a simple car. I really am going to rethink my participation in this whole pro10 class push. I dont want to offer just another overly complex car just to toot my own horn.
02-13-2008, 11:31 AM
#514
Jason,
Wait! Before you jump ship, make a car for me!! I like the thought and design that you've come to the table with.
Thanks,
E
Wait! Before you jump ship, make a car for me!! I like the thought and design that you've come to the table with.
Thanks,
E
02-13-2008, 11:51 AM
#515
The big cost in this project has been development. If the cars were straight from the 1/12th cars and had more common parts, there would be less time and cost to absorb. With having a complet new car with all of these changed parts, It now requires alot more development than it should. The problem i see is that the RC industry is a strange place. In all forms of racing i have done from motocross,BMX,Go karts and road racing, not once did i see any manufacturer make up there own guidelines. They always stayed within specs and that was what we raced. The RC industry is a whole different ballgame. It seems that everyone is out to bury the next guy. Inovation is great and i am all for it but this is just getting out of hand. It started as a
200mm class using GT bodies and 4 cell. Then some wanted to run lipo. Thats fine,you can do it. Now the cars need to take all lipos,6 cell, and run low wind brushless motors. 235mm options is another one. there is no need for it in this class. Why offer it if we are not using it? I am just getting worn out trying to turn my car into all of this. This project has been derailed and doesnt seem to have any direction anymore. Keeping the class 4 cell was the intention to keep the wear and tear down on the electronics, batteries, and the cars themselves. It also keeps the cost down for everyone.
1/12th has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 2 years. The reason for it is low cost,they are simple,they are fast, and they handle great. Some people didnt want to run 1/12th because they like the size and look of 1/10th cars. New people always seem to like the bigger 1/10th cars because they look more durable. This was the answer for those people. All we are doing is taking a nice possible class and running it into the ground.
The cost of making 2 cars is not worth it. The cost is too high to offer 2 cars and inventory both in hopes that the class will take off. I figured i would make a real good car for a real good price and let people have some fun. Too much adjustments and options raise the price and also defeat the purpose of having a simple car. I really am going to rethink my participation in this whole pro10 class push. I dont want to offer just another overly complex car just to toot my own horn.
200mm class using GT bodies and 4 cell. Then some wanted to run lipo. Thats fine,you can do it. Now the cars need to take all lipos,6 cell, and run low wind brushless motors. 235mm options is another one. there is no need for it in this class. Why offer it if we are not using it? I am just getting worn out trying to turn my car into all of this. This project has been derailed and doesnt seem to have any direction anymore. Keeping the class 4 cell was the intention to keep the wear and tear down on the electronics, batteries, and the cars themselves. It also keeps the cost down for everyone.
1/12th has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 2 years. The reason for it is low cost,they are simple,they are fast, and they handle great. Some people didnt want to run 1/12th because they like the size and look of 1/10th cars. New people always seem to like the bigger 1/10th cars because they look more durable. This was the answer for those people. All we are doing is taking a nice possible class and running it into the ground.
The cost of making 2 cars is not worth it. The cost is too high to offer 2 cars and inventory both in hopes that the class will take off. I figured i would make a real good car for a real good price and let people have some fun. Too much adjustments and options raise the price and also defeat the purpose of having a simple car. I really am going to rethink my participation in this whole pro10 class push. I dont want to offer just another overly complex car just to toot my own horn.
02-13-2008, 12:18 PM
#516
I completely understand the statement and i did make it fit lipo also. I went the route of the saddlepack formed as a brick pack. The only problem i am seeing is the push for lipo with low winds and also optional width and the push for 6 cell.
To be honest, nobody knows what cells will be used in place of 4 cell. Right now in TC and all other 6 cell applications hardcase lipo has been approved. Nothing has been said for 4 cell so i do not want to push them out all together. Who knows what the future is for 4 cell racing but i really feel that if we do have to go 7.4 lipo, we need to cap the limit on motors. This class needs to be directed more towards getting new people into onroad. The trans am class,mini cooper ect. is not working. They do not perform.
Another problem i have is the distance the cars are going away from there 1/12th siblings. The cost is just too high. For me to release a car i want to be competetive with the competition and if we all kept them closer to our 1/12th's, the price could have been better. I feel that there is just no direction anymore. We all spoke about this at the snowbirds. We were all looking for the same thing then. I am just going to wait this out and see where it is going. Im going to hold off on the project until i can see if it is worthwhile for me to get involved. I would love nothing more than to see this class work but at this point i am just not sure.
To be honest, nobody knows what cells will be used in place of 4 cell. Right now in TC and all other 6 cell applications hardcase lipo has been approved. Nothing has been said for 4 cell so i do not want to push them out all together. Who knows what the future is for 4 cell racing but i really feel that if we do have to go 7.4 lipo, we need to cap the limit on motors. This class needs to be directed more towards getting new people into onroad. The trans am class,mini cooper ect. is not working. They do not perform.
Another problem i have is the distance the cars are going away from there 1/12th siblings. The cost is just too high. For me to release a car i want to be competetive with the competition and if we all kept them closer to our 1/12th's, the price could have been better. I feel that there is just no direction anymore. We all spoke about this at the snowbirds. We were all looking for the same thing then. I am just going to wait this out and see where it is going. Im going to hold off on the project until i can see if it is worthwhile for me to get involved. I would love nothing more than to see this class work but at this point i am just not sure.
02-13-2008, 12:21 PM
#517
I certainly understand the sentiment Jason. There's no way to please everyone. I jokingly said something about LIPO's and 3.5 in the CRC Pro10 thead, and it ignited a whole argument that was never intended. There's just one problem with a 4-cell only chassis. The LIPO revolution is upon us, and LIPO doesn't correlate to 4-cell nimh at all. Every message board, and magazine is espousing the ultimate virtue of LIPO, so any newbie doing research, sees all the hype about the death of the nimh cell, and our imminent, industry-wide adoption of lipos. A car that can accommodate both formats can "bridge the gap between the nimh and lipo generations" so to speak. I know that it makes your task as a designer more dificult, and will probably require some compromises, but LIPO is coming, like it or not. Maybe Lipo with 21.5 crawler motors for "stock", 17.5 for "super-stock", and 13.5 for "Mod"?
02-13-2008, 12:28 PM
#518
The big cost in this project has been development. If the cars were straight from the 1/12th cars and had more common parts, there would be less time and cost to absorb. With having a complet new car with all of these changed parts, It now requires alot more development than it should. The problem i see is that the RC industry is a strange place. In all forms of racing i have done from motocross,BMX,Go karts and road racing, not once did i see any manufacturer make up there own guidelines. They always stayed within specs and that was what we raced. The RC industry is a whole different ballgame. It seems that everyone is out to bury the next guy. Inovation is great and i am all for it but this is just getting out of hand. It started as a
200mm class using GT bodies and 4 cell. Then some wanted to run lipo. Thats fine,you can do it. Now the cars need to take all lipos,6 cell, and run low wind brushless motors. 235mm options is another one. there is no need for it in this class. Why offer it if we are not using it? I am just getting worn out trying to turn my car into all of this. This project has been derailed and doesnt seem to have any direction anymore. Keeping the class 4 cell was the intention to keep the wear and tear down on the electronics, batteries, and the cars themselves. It also keeps the cost down for everyone.
1/12th has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 2 years. The reason for it is low cost,they are simple,they are fast, and they handle great. Some people didnt want to run 1/12th because they like the size and look of 1/10th cars. New people always seem to like the bigger 1/10th cars because they look more durable. This was the answer for those people. All we are doing is taking a nice possible class and running it into the ground.
The cost of making 2 cars is not worth it. The cost is too high to offer 2 cars and inventory both in hopes that the class will take off. I figured i would make a real good car for a real good price and let people have some fun. Too much adjustments and options raise the price and also defeat the purpose of having a simple car. I really am going to rethink my participation in this whole pro10 class push. I dont want to offer just another overly complex car just to toot my own horn.
200mm class using GT bodies and 4 cell. Then some wanted to run lipo. Thats fine,you can do it. Now the cars need to take all lipos,6 cell, and run low wind brushless motors. 235mm options is another one. there is no need for it in this class. Why offer it if we are not using it? I am just getting worn out trying to turn my car into all of this. This project has been derailed and doesnt seem to have any direction anymore. Keeping the class 4 cell was the intention to keep the wear and tear down on the electronics, batteries, and the cars themselves. It also keeps the cost down for everyone.
1/12th has grown in leaps and bounds over the past 2 years. The reason for it is low cost,they are simple,they are fast, and they handle great. Some people didnt want to run 1/12th because they like the size and look of 1/10th cars. New people always seem to like the bigger 1/10th cars because they look more durable. This was the answer for those people. All we are doing is taking a nice possible class and running it into the ground.
The cost of making 2 cars is not worth it. The cost is too high to offer 2 cars and inventory both in hopes that the class will take off. I figured i would make a real good car for a real good price and let people have some fun. Too much adjustments and options raise the price and also defeat the purpose of having a simple car. I really am going to rethink my participation in this whole pro10 class push. I dont want to offer just another overly complex car just to toot my own horn.
Oooook
New roads always have difficulties, and you know trying to please averyone in this hobby is impossible. (Competitive people are always difficult)
The thing is: 4 cells are ok for small tracks, 6 cells is ok for big tracks, and lipos are here to stay.
For example, the only track I have near is a 1/8 track, the next (6 hours away) is also very large. I really want one of this new cars, but what will I do with 4 cells in those tracks?
02-13-2008, 12:45 PM
#519
@ Jason, stop listening to the arm chair racer/manufacturers on here build the damn car as you see fit. Most of the guys here posting crap have no clue as to what marketing is about. If you build and it catches on the racers will go where the competition and fun is at.
If anything the smart thing would be make the car with the capability to use lipo 7.4 or 4 cell nimh. We don't need a 235mm conversion, that class is extinct.
There is an abundance of 200 mm bodies. Body designers would love this class because they can design dual purpose use bodies to be used by 10th scale nitro racers and us. Build the cars as agreed upon. If you listen to the racers we'll have no hobby in the future.
Why is everything a freaking debate lets race these things as is and see what happens.
Hector G.
Go ahead let the flaming begin!! This used to be fun till the cry babies came along.
If anything the smart thing would be make the car with the capability to use lipo 7.4 or 4 cell nimh. We don't need a 235mm conversion, that class is extinct.
There is an abundance of 200 mm bodies. Body designers would love this class because they can design dual purpose use bodies to be used by 10th scale nitro racers and us. Build the cars as agreed upon. If you listen to the racers we'll have no hobby in the future.
Why is everything a freaking debate lets race these things as is and see what happens.
Hector G.
Go ahead let the flaming begin!! This used to be fun till the cry babies came along.
02-13-2008, 01:05 PM
#520
Or maybe the D&~n Li-Po manucatures could make these easily configured cells fit a 4 cell size. Then they will fit cars designed for Either 4 or 6 cells. To allow for 6 cell size then you drastically changing the car and its performance. Either a wide chassis or front rear battery. No reason to restrict so much when Lipo don't need to be 6 cell shape or SIZE to reach the same Voltage.
02-13-2008, 01:16 PM
#521
Tech Addict
Upcoming PRO 10 BODIES
I'm planning on a few changes to this C6-R Corvette mold to optimise it for pan car use - then re-introduce it to the market.
I've been hearing from a few "insider" sources that the GT style (Vettes, Vipers, Aston Martins, and other front engine car styles) bodies are going to make it an interesting class. Your thoughts?
Dale - Protoform Race Bodies
I've been hearing from a few "insider" sources that the GT style (Vettes, Vipers, Aston Martins, and other front engine car styles) bodies are going to make it an interesting class. Your thoughts?
Dale - Protoform Race Bodies
02-13-2008, 02:04 PM
#524
I'm planning on a few changes to this C6-R Corvette mold to optimise it for pan car use - then re-introduce it to the market.
I've been hearing from a few "insider" sources that the GT style (Vettes, Vipers, Aston Martins, and other front engine car styles) bodies are going to make it an interesting class. Your thoughts?
Dale - Protoform Race Bodies
I've been hearing from a few "insider" sources that the GT style (Vettes, Vipers, Aston Martins, and other front engine car styles) bodies are going to make it an interesting class. Your thoughts?
Dale - Protoform Race Bodies
02-13-2008, 02:09 PM
#525
If you want to run a budget class then stick a 3kmah lipo w/ a tamiya silver can into a pan car. It will be very fast, & there are battery/esc/motor/charger combos available for under $150. So, think about this setup.
$75 bolink pan car
$75 budget radio
$30 budget servo
$15 silver can
$40 lipo
$30 duratrax spike
$60 charger
Great speeds & 10+ minute run times. Pick another lipo for $40 & your set for a day @ the track on a beginners budget.
Another good class is 1100gram tcs w/ lipos & silver can motors. They are actually about as fast as a good mild mod tc & you can power them for under $150.
$75 bolink pan car
$75 budget radio
$30 budget servo
$15 silver can
$40 lipo
$30 duratrax spike
$60 charger
Great speeds & 10+ minute run times. Pick another lipo for $40 & your set for a day @ the track on a beginners budget.
Another good class is 1100gram tcs w/ lipos & silver can motors. They are actually about as fast as a good mild mod tc & you can power them for under $150.