"Tamiya Class" racing...Help me choose - TA05 vs TA05R
01-28-2008, 12:22 PM
#61
Rule number 4 for 2008 TCS racing is as follows:
[I]# The batteries that are allowed for the 2008 season are:
f. LIPO batteries are only legal for the following classes: F103-GT, GT-2, GT-3 and 4WD-Off-Road. At this point in time the only three packs allowed are the Orion/Peak Carbon Edition 3200, 3600 and Platinum Edition 4800.
For GT-2 & 3 classes (silver can & ROAR 27t), I would try the Integy VESC IB4200 600s 1.29v packs. They can be found for well under $50 if search the net. With Integy's matching system (25A dishcarge & 370 second voltage sample), they have the highest voltage of any Integy set, but the rather low run-time really saves cost. Just be aware that IB4200 cells are very finicky. You would do best to get a equalizer tray that has a .9v cuttoff like the Trinity D-90, as they shouldn't be brought bellow that point. And always store them with a charge because they self-discharge quickly, and monitor their voltage once or twice a week...
Or if you can afford it, just go lipo. The Orion 3600 has the highest amp output, yet still fits in the spaces that regular NIMH packs would go (no mods to the chassis)...
PS: The Reactor20 is a great fast-discharger. I picked a used one up from eBay for 99 cents...
[I]# The batteries that are allowed for the 2008 season are:
f. LIPO batteries are only legal for the following classes: F103-GT, GT-2, GT-3 and 4WD-Off-Road. At this point in time the only three packs allowed are the Orion/Peak Carbon Edition 3200, 3600 and Platinum Edition 4800.
For GT-2 & 3 classes (silver can & ROAR 27t), I would try the Integy VESC IB4200 600s 1.29v packs. They can be found for well under $50 if search the net. With Integy's matching system (25A dishcarge & 370 second voltage sample), they have the highest voltage of any Integy set, but the rather low run-time really saves cost. Just be aware that IB4200 cells are very finicky. You would do best to get a equalizer tray that has a .9v cuttoff like the Trinity D-90, as they shouldn't be brought bellow that point. And always store them with a charge because they self-discharge quickly, and monitor their voltage once or twice a week...
Or if you can afford it, just go lipo. The Orion 3600 has the highest amp output, yet still fits in the spaces that regular NIMH packs would go (no mods to the chassis)...
PS: The Reactor20 is a great fast-discharger. I picked a used one up from eBay for 99 cents...
Also the poster of this thread is in Okinawa and the rules are different there (homeland Japan).
01-28-2008, 02:08 PM
#62
Paulie....after you ran your 05R and if you think that is a WRONG decision (instead of buying the stock 05)...you can come here and ninja our asses here...LOL. I really really doubt your 05R will disappoint you.
Please follow the local TAMIYA JAPAN rule instead of the Tamiya USA or whereever's rule...only the JAPAN one is the one you should follow...which I believed they will only allow the hobby brand's model like Trinity, Integy, Orion, Novak or brand that sold over the hobby shop in Japan. You cannot use the 3rd parts special brand with special zapped process batteries...for "whatever" reason. Rules are rules.
About your bling steering rack option...if you buy the aluminum steering arm, you might as well get the carbon plate and I think they both need to work with each other. So I think you would need it.....(not me cause I just don't see I need that option nor I care about those little play, I am cheap.)
Please follow the local TAMIYA JAPAN rule instead of the Tamiya USA or whereever's rule...only the JAPAN one is the one you should follow...which I believed they will only allow the hobby brand's model like Trinity, Integy, Orion, Novak or brand that sold over the hobby shop in Japan. You cannot use the 3rd parts special brand with special zapped process batteries...for "whatever" reason. Rules are rules.
About your bling steering rack option...if you buy the aluminum steering arm, you might as well get the carbon plate and I think they both need to work with each other. So I think you would need it.....(not me cause I just don't see I need that option nor I care about those little play, I am cheap.)
01-28-2008, 02:22 PM
#63
HA HA, I highly doubt the TA05-R will disappoint. I probably will pick up the carbon steering plate and the aluminum bellcrank though just because, he he he.
As far as the batteries, yeah, in Japan, I think the rules are different. I asked him why there is a limit to 3700mah, and he said it's because of safety. He eluded to the IB4200 cells being not as durable, and some have even exploded to to mismanagement.
He did tell me though I can use batteries from the US, but I'll have to re-conffirm that with him before I actually buy anything. I'd hate to try and save a few $$$ and then turn out not to be legal to race.
The individual cells that I'd make stick packs for are not for the Tamiya class race. They are for the open 23T class. Basically, you can run anything you want, with a 3700mah limit (again, due to safety).
I'm converting my Yokomo drift package to run in this 23T open class, and I planned on using flat packs. They hold both races in the same day, so I'll have the Yok for the 23T class, and the TA05-R for the Tamiya class for a FULL day of racing action! Or a full day of hitting the boards, he he he. We'll see how it pans out
I don't think the Integy Reactor 20 takes the cells down to 0.0, so you think it would be a better idea to just get that (even for the flat packs), and skip the INDI Zero 6S 6A Discharge Board to further discharge the flatpacks altogether?
- Paulie
As far as the batteries, yeah, in Japan, I think the rules are different. I asked him why there is a limit to 3700mah, and he said it's because of safety. He eluded to the IB4200 cells being not as durable, and some have even exploded to to mismanagement.
He did tell me though I can use batteries from the US, but I'll have to re-conffirm that with him before I actually buy anything. I'd hate to try and save a few $$$ and then turn out not to be legal to race.
The individual cells that I'd make stick packs for are not for the Tamiya class race. They are for the open 23T class. Basically, you can run anything you want, with a 3700mah limit (again, due to safety).
I'm converting my Yokomo drift package to run in this 23T open class, and I planned on using flat packs. They hold both races in the same day, so I'll have the Yok for the 23T class, and the TA05-R for the Tamiya class for a FULL day of racing action! Or a full day of hitting the boards, he he he. We'll see how it pans out
I don't think the Integy Reactor 20 takes the cells down to 0.0, so you think it would be a better idea to just get that (even for the flat packs), and skip the INDI Zero 6S 6A Discharge Board to further discharge the flatpacks altogether?
- Paulie
01-28-2008, 03:08 PM
#64
In retrospect, while I first recommended the base TA05, I cant help but agree that most would be better off with the R version because it includes the TRF shocks, alum axle clamps and CVDs that come with the 'R' version. Those parts are definately worth the extra $50 and then some.
I can verify that hoping up a base TA05 is a losing propsition. You will spend 2 times what it cost initially just to bring it up to R specs only to discover that none of the suspension parts between the 2 versions are interchangable. Many of spare parts I bought for the original dont fit on the R.
After 2 seasons, I have enough TA05 stuff to build a bone stock one or a full R version and I ultimately ended building the R, + lightweight chasis + stock A arms and hubs + 46mm CVDs.
Those who are trying to remove excess weight from TA05 might find it interesting that the plastic shocks weigh 4 grams less than the TRF ones and work extremely well too.
I can verify that hoping up a base TA05 is a losing propsition. You will spend 2 times what it cost initially just to bring it up to R specs only to discover that none of the suspension parts between the 2 versions are interchangable. Many of spare parts I bought for the original dont fit on the R.
After 2 seasons, I have enough TA05 stuff to build a bone stock one or a full R version and I ultimately ended building the R, + lightweight chasis + stock A arms and hubs + 46mm CVDs.
Those who are trying to remove excess weight from TA05 might find it interesting that the plastic shocks weigh 4 grams less than the TRF ones and work extremely well too.
Last edited by Ed237; 01-29-2008 at 10:32 AM.
01-29-2008, 05:34 AM
#65
Well fellas, the wait is over! Got all my stuff tonight! I’ll get into that in a sec…
First, I finally got definitive words on the “Tamiya” class. Here are the rules:
CHASSIS: Tamiya only
TOTAL RIDE HEIGHT: 140mm (from ground to top of body)
WHEELBASE: 260mm only
BODY & WING SET: Tamiya scale racing bodies only. May use Tamiya optional lexan wing if desired. Wing must be painted.
MINIMUM WEIGHT LIMIT: 1,500g (TT01 = 1,450g)
TIRES: Tamiya tire only. Cleaner allowed. Traction compound not allowed.
BATTERIES: 7.2V Stick pack only. Limit to 3700mah. Must be pre-built stick pack (can’t build your own). Connector change for motor/Battery/ESC is allowed.
MOTOR: Tamiya GT Tune 25T only, part number 53779. Tamiya brushes only. Comm cutting not allowed.
GEAR RATIO: Must use spec gear ratio. It’s dependant on the chassis. For TA05, you can use either 105T spur/33T pinion, or 70T spur/22T pinion
Those are the complete rules for the “Tamiya” class. I don’t really think its an official TCS race, but the parameters are so finite that I think it’ll make for very competitive racing.
On to the goods! I spent a good while at the hobby shop today, and came away with the following:
- Tamiya TA05-R kit
- Tamiya GT Tune motor
- Tamiya 33T pinion set
- Tamiya Carbon Steering link w/bearings
- Tamiya 5x1.9 Bearing Spacer for Reversible Suspension (not sure if I need these or not, got 'em just in case)
- Tamiya Front 1-way
- Tamiya Center 1-way
- Tamiya On Road Tuned Hard spring set (x2)
- Tamiya Racing Motor brush set
- Tamiya Medium Narrow Racing Tires (x4) (part number SP-1023) (spec tire)
- Tamiya Raybrig NSX Lightweight Body Set (pre-painted)
- Tamiya Medium Narrow 5 spoke wheel set (0 offset)
- Tamiya CA Cement
- Ride "quick dry" for CA Cement
- Squat precision hi-grade 850 bearings (x4) for the steering bellcrank
- Team Associated Green Slime (for shock o-rings)
- Yokomo 200wt shock oil
Out the door price = $391.90 US Dollars
Not too shabby considering I got an additional parts for tuning/practice, not to mention some building materials as well. I always counted on it being double the price of the actual kit since there are always other things to buy.
I opted not to get the aluminum steering bellcrank because you can't really even see the darn thing. It's hidden under the chassis brace, so, so much for the bling aspect of it. I figured the bearings were more important anyway, so I got them instead.
The pre-made body was a tough decision for me. Out of the regular Tamiya scale bodies, he had the HKS Altezza, Xanavi NISMO Z, and the Raybrig 2005 NSX. Out of the pre-made Lightweight Bodies, he had the Esso Ultraflo Supra, Xanavi NISMO Z, and Raybrig NSX.
I really wanted the HKS Altezza, but since all the fast guys are using the lightweight body sets, I figured I needed all the help I can get to try and compete at their level, so I went with general consensus is as far the top body goes, the NSX. It was only $9 more than the do it yourself one, and I don’t have to buy paint, or spend the time cutting it out and detailing the whole thing. That alone is worth 9 bucks to me, because I am a perfectionist when it comes to cutting/detailing bodies, and since I’m getting into the Tamiya class for pure racing and competition, I’d rather spend my time driving/practicing than preparing a body.
Have a look at my Yokomo drifting body to see what I mean…
http://www.groovydrift.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5955
I have 3 weeks just into the stickers alone (made all the graphics myself in vector format, and hand cut them).
So anyhoo, that’s about it. I think I’ve decided on the Integy GP3700mah stick packs, and Integy Reactor 20 for discharging.
As far as radio gear is concerned, I have a Futaba 3pm 2.4ghz coming (on the slow boat I might add, cause they shipped it Parcel Post). I have a Futaba S3050 digital servo that’s here already, but I don’t think I’m going to use it. I’m thinking about the Futaba S9452 or the S9551. Since the S9551 isn’t out yet, I may just get the S9452, and hope it fits with the receiver that comes with the 3PM 2.4ghz.
While I was browsing Integy’s website, I noticed they had a Digital Servo 41x20x37mm 0.09s/83oz-in model that looked promising for the price. Not sure if it’s any good though. Specs are nice, but I have no experience with Integy servos. Are they any good?
An ESC is the one thing I’m not really sure on yet. All these guys, and I mean ALL of them, either have the KO Propo VF1, or the Yokomo Masami version of it. I’m not big on messing with the settings on my PC, or via some sort of datalink, so I thought of getting the LRP QC3. I know it’s rather expensive, and I could get a decent brushless package for that kind of money, but brushless isn’t popular over here at all. No one uses them and there is no racing class that allows them either. The highest unlimited racing class here uses 23T motors, and by the time I get back to the states in 3 years, I’m sure whatever I get now will be outdated anyway. The LRP QC3 seems like it’s competitive, plus it’s easy. Put it on the “Stock” profile and away I go (I hope it’s that simple). I’m completely open to any other ESC recommendations though, as I’d rather not spend crazy money on an ESC that will be obsolete already. Are there any other ESC’s that are easy to set up that can compete with the KO Propo top of the line stuff?
So that’s where I’m at. I can't wait to get racing!!!
- Paulie
First, I finally got definitive words on the “Tamiya” class. Here are the rules:
CHASSIS: Tamiya only
TOTAL RIDE HEIGHT: 140mm (from ground to top of body)
WHEELBASE: 260mm only
BODY & WING SET: Tamiya scale racing bodies only. May use Tamiya optional lexan wing if desired. Wing must be painted.
MINIMUM WEIGHT LIMIT: 1,500g (TT01 = 1,450g)
TIRES: Tamiya tire only. Cleaner allowed. Traction compound not allowed.
BATTERIES: 7.2V Stick pack only. Limit to 3700mah. Must be pre-built stick pack (can’t build your own). Connector change for motor/Battery/ESC is allowed.
MOTOR: Tamiya GT Tune 25T only, part number 53779. Tamiya brushes only. Comm cutting not allowed.
GEAR RATIO: Must use spec gear ratio. It’s dependant on the chassis. For TA05, you can use either 105T spur/33T pinion, or 70T spur/22T pinion
Those are the complete rules for the “Tamiya” class. I don’t really think its an official TCS race, but the parameters are so finite that I think it’ll make for very competitive racing.
On to the goods! I spent a good while at the hobby shop today, and came away with the following:
- Tamiya TA05-R kit
- Tamiya GT Tune motor
- Tamiya 33T pinion set
- Tamiya Carbon Steering link w/bearings
- Tamiya 5x1.9 Bearing Spacer for Reversible Suspension (not sure if I need these or not, got 'em just in case)
- Tamiya Front 1-way
- Tamiya Center 1-way
- Tamiya On Road Tuned Hard spring set (x2)
- Tamiya Racing Motor brush set
- Tamiya Medium Narrow Racing Tires (x4) (part number SP-1023) (spec tire)
- Tamiya Raybrig NSX Lightweight Body Set (pre-painted)
- Tamiya Medium Narrow 5 spoke wheel set (0 offset)
- Tamiya CA Cement
- Ride "quick dry" for CA Cement
- Squat precision hi-grade 850 bearings (x4) for the steering bellcrank
- Team Associated Green Slime (for shock o-rings)
- Yokomo 200wt shock oil
Out the door price = $391.90 US Dollars
Not too shabby considering I got an additional parts for tuning/practice, not to mention some building materials as well. I always counted on it being double the price of the actual kit since there are always other things to buy.
I opted not to get the aluminum steering bellcrank because you can't really even see the darn thing. It's hidden under the chassis brace, so, so much for the bling aspect of it. I figured the bearings were more important anyway, so I got them instead.
The pre-made body was a tough decision for me. Out of the regular Tamiya scale bodies, he had the HKS Altezza, Xanavi NISMO Z, and the Raybrig 2005 NSX. Out of the pre-made Lightweight Bodies, he had the Esso Ultraflo Supra, Xanavi NISMO Z, and Raybrig NSX.
I really wanted the HKS Altezza, but since all the fast guys are using the lightweight body sets, I figured I needed all the help I can get to try and compete at their level, so I went with general consensus is as far the top body goes, the NSX. It was only $9 more than the do it yourself one, and I don’t have to buy paint, or spend the time cutting it out and detailing the whole thing. That alone is worth 9 bucks to me, because I am a perfectionist when it comes to cutting/detailing bodies, and since I’m getting into the Tamiya class for pure racing and competition, I’d rather spend my time driving/practicing than preparing a body.
Have a look at my Yokomo drifting body to see what I mean…
http://www.groovydrift.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5955
I have 3 weeks just into the stickers alone (made all the graphics myself in vector format, and hand cut them).
So anyhoo, that’s about it. I think I’ve decided on the Integy GP3700mah stick packs, and Integy Reactor 20 for discharging.
As far as radio gear is concerned, I have a Futaba 3pm 2.4ghz coming (on the slow boat I might add, cause they shipped it Parcel Post). I have a Futaba S3050 digital servo that’s here already, but I don’t think I’m going to use it. I’m thinking about the Futaba S9452 or the S9551. Since the S9551 isn’t out yet, I may just get the S9452, and hope it fits with the receiver that comes with the 3PM 2.4ghz.
While I was browsing Integy’s website, I noticed they had a Digital Servo 41x20x37mm 0.09s/83oz-in model that looked promising for the price. Not sure if it’s any good though. Specs are nice, but I have no experience with Integy servos. Are they any good?
An ESC is the one thing I’m not really sure on yet. All these guys, and I mean ALL of them, either have the KO Propo VF1, or the Yokomo Masami version of it. I’m not big on messing with the settings on my PC, or via some sort of datalink, so I thought of getting the LRP QC3. I know it’s rather expensive, and I could get a decent brushless package for that kind of money, but brushless isn’t popular over here at all. No one uses them and there is no racing class that allows them either. The highest unlimited racing class here uses 23T motors, and by the time I get back to the states in 3 years, I’m sure whatever I get now will be outdated anyway. The LRP QC3 seems like it’s competitive, plus it’s easy. Put it on the “Stock” profile and away I go (I hope it’s that simple). I’m completely open to any other ESC recommendations though, as I’d rather not spend crazy money on an ESC that will be obsolete already. Are there any other ESC’s that are easy to set up that can compete with the KO Propo top of the line stuff?
So that’s where I’m at. I can't wait to get racing!!!
- Paulie
Last edited by pgeldz; 01-29-2008 at 06:15 AM.
01-29-2008, 07:35 AM
#66
take a look at the Tekin fx pro esc. Its small, light and tunable 
01-29-2008, 09:15 AM
#67
Aside from the LRP QC2 & 3, all the other competitive ESCs require a external programmer. This includes the TEKIN FX-Pro, The Futabe MC850c, the KO VFS series (Tamiya Volac, Hot Bodies Twister, Yokomo VFS, etc). It's not absolutely necessary, but gives you a little extra customization for the picky driver...
BTW: The Integy Reactor20 has a 5.4v cutoff for NIMH (0.9v per cell)...
BTW: The Integy Reactor20 has a 5.4v cutoff for NIMH (0.9v per cell)...
01-29-2008, 09:29 AM
#68
Tech Master
Wow pretty impressive shopping you did there. I wish my lhs had as much selection. (and they complain how online stores steal their customers).
Anyway, I hope you have the Associated stealth diff lube and black grease. It'll make your diff smoother. Don't forget the 3mm tap. It will save you, trust me. GL on the build
Anyway, I hope you have the Associated stealth diff lube and black grease. It'll make your diff smoother. Don't forget the 3mm tap. It will save you, trust me. GL on the build
01-29-2008, 01:47 PM
#70
Ha ha, I do have the Associated diff lube (both types), and the black grease. Got them a few weeks ago for my Yokomo when I converted the front spool to a ball diff. I'm tellin' ya, this guys is awesome. He has the best selection (of stuff you'd actually want) Iv'e ever seen. All at prices that rival the mail order Hong Kong shops (once you factor in their shipping).
As far as ESC's go, I should have mentioned that I can put up with programming it via computer, but I'd rather not have to buy an extra dedicated programmer to do so. Sure, I'll buy the USB cord and link softwhere for the PC, but I'd rather not have to get some sort of handheld dedicated device.
With that being said, it was mentioned that the new Sidewinder from Castle Creations may be a good choice for me. It can basically do everything including brushless (sensored and unsensored), and brushed as well.
My thing is, will it fit in the TA05-R and is it even competitive against the top of the line KO Propo stuff?
If not, I'll probably end up getting the LRP QC3. If you have any experience with the Sidewinder ESC, size or specs, please let me know...
- Paulie
As far as ESC's go, I should have mentioned that I can put up with programming it via computer, but I'd rather not have to buy an extra dedicated programmer to do so. Sure, I'll buy the USB cord and link softwhere for the PC, but I'd rather not have to get some sort of handheld dedicated device.
With that being said, it was mentioned that the new Sidewinder from Castle Creations may be a good choice for me. It can basically do everything including brushless (sensored and unsensored), and brushed as well.
My thing is, will it fit in the TA05-R and is it even competitive against the top of the line KO Propo stuff?
If not, I'll probably end up getting the LRP QC3. If you have any experience with the Sidewinder ESC, size or specs, please let me know...
- Paulie
01-29-2008, 02:11 PM
#71
Tech Master
ESCs won't make THAT much of a difference, but when you are at the top three of the A-main, it probably will.
Especially those tamiya freaks in Japan do everything they can to squeeze out every juice from the batteries. With such strict rules, ideas like that emerge I guess. That being said, the VFS seems to be choice for a lot of the TGP racers. Its weight, low resistance, and programmable features is a godsend to them.
Especially those tamiya freaks in Japan do everything they can to squeeze out every juice from the batteries. With such strict rules, ideas like that emerge I guess. That being said, the VFS seems to be choice for a lot of the TGP racers. Its weight, low resistance, and programmable features is a godsend to them.
02-26-2008, 04:11 AM
#72
Tech Rookie
I am considering a TA05R as my next car. Does anyone have an electronic version of the manual?
02-26-2008, 05:58 AM
#73
02-26-2008, 05:58 AM
#74
02-26-2008, 06:47 AM
#75
Tech Rookie
Excellent... Many thanks