lipo batterys
01-23-2008, 09:06 AM
#16
The 2s2p configuration in the Orion 4800 is different than most car packs which are single (1p) cell make up.
The pairs of paralleled cells stay balanced always... they are self-balancing, because they are hardwired together. They act just like a single cell.
The only difference is that the odds of a cell going bad is greater due to having 4 cells in the pack instead of just 2.
The pairs of paralleled cells stay balanced always... they are self-balancing, because they are hardwired together. They act just like a single cell.
The only difference is that the odds of a cell going bad is greater due to having 4 cells in the pack instead of just 2.
01-23-2008, 09:14 AM
#17
No, that statement is absolutely incorrect and not accurate at all. A single Lipo cell is actually a bunch of smaller Lipo’s batteries welded in sealed aluminum pouch. This means, when you wire up two Lipo's cells in a series, (as seen in the Orion example) you are basically moving the connection outside the pouch. Hence, the two Lipo's cell wired up in a series on either the + or the - side of the Orion pack act as a single new Lipo cell, and they will not go out of balance for this reason, EVER!
Once understood, and know how and throughly research how a Lipo cell is created in the first place, you can clearly easily see why this is not an issue at all. In additon, this means a 2s1p pack isn't necessarily faster than a 2s2p pack!
Once understood, and know how and throughly research how a Lipo cell is created in the first place, you can clearly easily see why this is not an issue at all. In additon, this means a 2s1p pack isn't necessarily faster than a 2s2p pack!
01-23-2008, 09:21 AM
#18
Hence, the two Lipo's cell wired up in a series on either the + or the - side of the Orion pack act as a single new Lipo cell, and they will not go out of balance for this reason, EVER!
Once understood, and know how and throughly research how a Lipo cell is created in the first place, you can clearly easily see why this is not an issue at all. In additon, this means a 2s1p pack isn't necessarily faster than a 2s2p pack!
Once understood, and know how and throughly research how a Lipo cell is created in the first place, you can clearly easily see why this is not an issue at all. In additon, this means a 2s1p pack isn't necessarily faster than a 2s2p pack!
Also why are some manufacturers now supplying taps on a straight 2S pack if this is the case?
Thanks.
01-23-2008, 11:16 AM
#20
I apologize for any misunderstanding. I did not mean the pack would never go out of balance. This can happen to any pack, in any configuration, regardless of who made it, etc.
My post was intended to explain that there isn't a need to check all four Lipo’s cells within the Orion pack for voltage separately to check for balance. This isn't possible anyway without tearing the case apart. The reason being the "+" side (2 total cells) will always be in balance with each other because they are wired directly together and will act as a single Lipo cell on the positive side. Now in the same sense the "-" cells (2 cells total on the opposing side) will always be in balance with each other because they will act as a single cell on the negative side just as well.
Now we have the + and - side, that you can check for voltage separately as you would if they were a single LiPo cell on either side. (There’s no need to test for all four Lipo’s cells, because the two Lipo’s on each side, behaves as a single LiPo on that side, hence your being able to test for voltage to see if anything is out of balance that way, hope that is clear?)
Now that being said, when testing for voltage on either + and - side separately, they will not necessarily be in balance with each other from extended use, over discharge, or whatever reason, or they may match up near perfect as mine did straight from the factory right from the start. For the most part, you will never have to worry about this if you treat them well is what Orion says.
However if you do check, and they are indeed out of balance out of tolerance (whatever the value Orion has on their website for it to be consider so), all you have to do is charge each cell individually one at a time separately to bring up it to balance to a perfect 4.20 vlt on either side. It's easy to do. Of course you will have to re-configure the charger to set it as on one cell 4.2 when charging the + side, and again on the - side, instead of two cells 8.4 vt in order to do this.
I made my own harness out of wires and connectors to accomplish this for my own peace of mind, and color coded EVERYTHING to be safe and avoid any improper hook up of any kind, haha, even though it wasn't all that necessary at first. I'm sure it will eventually come in more handy though. I only had to re-balance my Orion pack very very slightly. It wasn't anything way off. Sorry if this wasn't all that clear, as it's hard to explain without being there in person and showing everyone how to do it. It's not really that complicated, really. I’m sorry if I confused anyone, as that wasn’t my intention.
My post was intended to explain that there isn't a need to check all four Lipo’s cells within the Orion pack for voltage separately to check for balance. This isn't possible anyway without tearing the case apart. The reason being the "+" side (2 total cells) will always be in balance with each other because they are wired directly together and will act as a single Lipo cell on the positive side. Now in the same sense the "-" cells (2 cells total on the opposing side) will always be in balance with each other because they will act as a single cell on the negative side just as well.
Now we have the + and - side, that you can check for voltage separately as you would if they were a single LiPo cell on either side. (There’s no need to test for all four Lipo’s cells, because the two Lipo’s on each side, behaves as a single LiPo on that side, hence your being able to test for voltage to see if anything is out of balance that way, hope that is clear?)
Now that being said, when testing for voltage on either + and - side separately, they will not necessarily be in balance with each other from extended use, over discharge, or whatever reason, or they may match up near perfect as mine did straight from the factory right from the start. For the most part, you will never have to worry about this if you treat them well is what Orion says.
However if you do check, and they are indeed out of balance out of tolerance (whatever the value Orion has on their website for it to be consider so), all you have to do is charge each cell individually one at a time separately to bring up it to balance to a perfect 4.20 vlt on either side. It's easy to do. Of course you will have to re-configure the charger to set it as on one cell 4.2 when charging the + side, and again on the - side, instead of two cells 8.4 vt in order to do this.
I made my own harness out of wires and connectors to accomplish this for my own peace of mind, and color coded EVERYTHING to be safe and avoid any improper hook up of any kind, haha, even though it wasn't all that necessary at first. I'm sure it will eventually come in more handy though. I only had to re-balance my Orion pack very very slightly. It wasn't anything way off. Sorry if this wasn't all that clear, as it's hard to explain without being there in person and showing everyone how to do it. It's not really that complicated, really. I’m sorry if I confused anyone, as that wasn’t my intention.
Last edited by 4wd Racer; 01-23-2008 at 11:26 AM. Reason: grammar
01-23-2008, 11:24 AM
#21
First I've ever heard this explained this way. Does this apply to any 2S pack? I understand how/why a 2S2P pack gets out of balance, but never could figure out why Orion didn't supply a balance tap on their packs.
Also why are some manufacturers now supplying taps on a straight 2S pack if this is the case?
Thanks.
Also why are some manufacturers now supplying taps on a straight 2S pack if this is the case?
Thanks.
By no means am I a Lipo expert, I'm not. I simply had to do the research, ask the right questions from those I know, and then put it to use with some common sense and creative wiring just like anyone else would to get what I wanted to accomplish in order to test & balance my packs here out. It's all actually fun and interesting stuff for sure once you have gathered and analyized all the data to work with.
Last edited by 4wd Racer; 01-23-2008 at 11:35 AM.
01-23-2008, 11:47 AM
#22
I do completely understand the need to balance. But I was basing off of your explanation of how a 2S1P pack should work. i.e. 2S1P should not have an out-of-balance situation.
However pack manufacturers are putting balancing taps on 2S1P packs (with the exception of Orion and maybe a few others). So what is it balancing if 2 cells in series will even out the voltage on their own unlike parallel that will maintain separate unique voltages.
However pack manufacturers are putting balancing taps on 2S1P packs (with the exception of Orion and maybe a few others). So what is it balancing if 2 cells in series will even out the voltage on their own unlike parallel that will maintain separate unique voltages.
01-23-2008, 12:23 PM
#23
I do completely understand the need to balance. But I was basing off of your explanation of how a 2S1P pack should work. i.e. 2S1P should not have an out-of-balance situation.
However pack manufacturers are putting balancing taps on 2S1P packs (with the exception of Orion and maybe a few others). So what is it balancing if 2 cells in series will even out the voltage on their own unlike parallel that will maintain separate unique voltages.
However pack manufacturers are putting balancing taps on 2S1P packs (with the exception of Orion and maybe a few others). So what is it balancing if 2 cells in series will even out the voltage on their own unlike parallel that will maintain separate unique voltages.
01-23-2008, 03:57 PM
#25
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (23)
the little hole in the middle is the balancing port. team checkpoint should have a balancer that will work with it soon.
http://www.bigsquidrc.com/?p=86
http://www.bigsquidrc.com/?p=86
01-26-2008, 07:00 PM
#27
Ok Cain. I ran my TMeXpress pack today and was pleased with it. The only thing you have to watch for is if you put too much pressure on the case (battery strap too tight) it will engage the cutoff circuit.
And it's definitely an Align tap. You can get adapters to use Hyperion or Blinky type balancers.
Not sure what the ultimate run-time is though. We ran 7 min mains tonight with a few minutes of warm-up laps in stock truck (13.5) and I never noticed any drop in power. I'll re-peak it tomorrow to see what it takes back in.
And it's definitely an Align tap. You can get adapters to use Hyperion or Blinky type balancers.
Not sure what the ultimate run-time is though. We ran 7 min mains tonight with a few minutes of warm-up laps in stock truck (13.5) and I never noticed any drop in power. I'll re-peak it tomorrow to see what it takes back in.
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