1LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
01-30-2009, 02:58 AM
#4156
ROAR RULES
Something some people forget about, or maybe don't even know...
a club or track that is ROAR sanctioned is NOT limited to running classes, products, etc. that are ROAR 'legal'
Clubs and tracks that carry a ROAR sanction have to abide by certain saftey standards & insure all competitors are ROAR members in order to be covered by the ROAR ins. policy, however that does not preclude them from creating, shaping and modifying rules to be used to benefit their local or regional racing.
ROAR Rules must be enforced at HIGHER level "SANCTIONED" competition events, such as Regional Championships or National Events, but even for these events variances can be granted to NON-CONFORMING classes. However, at those events the rules sanctioned classes must also be offered.
So, with THAT being said...under ROAR Sanction a local club can at their descretion allow a battery such as the ORION 2400 to be used at the club level events if they so desire, and make it know that product is being allowed.
For more info on that, you can contact Dawn Sanchez (ROAR President)
Something some people forget about, or maybe don't even know...
a club or track that is ROAR sanctioned is NOT limited to running classes, products, etc. that are ROAR 'legal'
Clubs and tracks that carry a ROAR sanction have to abide by certain saftey standards & insure all competitors are ROAR members in order to be covered by the ROAR ins. policy, however that does not preclude them from creating, shaping and modifying rules to be used to benefit their local or regional racing.
ROAR Rules must be enforced at HIGHER level "SANCTIONED" competition events, such as Regional Championships or National Events, but even for these events variances can be granted to NON-CONFORMING classes. However, at those events the rules sanctioned classes must also be offered.
So, with THAT being said...under ROAR Sanction a local club can at their descretion allow a battery such as the ORION 2400 to be used at the club level events if they so desire, and make it know that product is being allowed.
For more info on that, you can contact Dawn Sanchez (ROAR President)
01-30-2009, 06:11 AM
#4157
I'm truly aware that ROAR allow (and actively encourage) deviation from many of their rules in the interest of supporting club-level racing. My concern is more with the insurance underwriters/adjusters and my more general understanding of how THEY work.
The LiPo batteries are one of the only (THE only?) item that ROAR safety tests prior to approval. Now I know it's a LOOOOOONG stretch, but what if a non-ROAR approved LiPo has a catastrophic failure and causes personal injury or property damage? The VERY first thing the adjusters will comb for are "out's", situations that may have been present that mitigate or eliminate their obligation to pay. They comb the entry list for drivers who aren't ROAR members. You KNOW they'd want the battery at the heart of the problem and would be comparing it with the approved batteries on ROAR's list. What is the status of the claim if it ISN'T on ROAR's approved list? Don't know? Me either. My concern is, though, that I don't have the money in my pocket to cover re-building the Shrine Auditorium (nor do any of the folks I race with) where we race and you can bet that their attorney will be naming names on their lawsuit to have the damages covered. You can also bet my name would be right near the top of the list since I'm the person in the club who is their direct contact and makes all our scheduling and other arrangements with them.
Again, is this a LIKELY scenario? Nope. Is it possible? Absolutely. Can the question/concern be eliminated without any undue injury to anyone? Yup...just require that everyone's LiPo battery is on the approved list and that ALL charging and other safety requirements specified for LiPo batteries(containment device, buckets of sand, tech for voltage, etc) are followed. As long as the rules are enforced evenly and consistently there's no one at any sort of disadvantage from them, competitively or economically.
We have, as a club, had this very discussion. We allow non-ROAR approved 19T motors, for example, but we have decided as a group that as far as LiPo batteries we have to stick to the ROAR list. To do otherwise exposes us (as limited as that exposure may be) unneccessarily to financial loss.
I will talk to Dawn, though, and the insurance representative and see if I can get WRITTEN clarification on the above. I'm kind of doubting we'd get anything of that nature from the insurance folks, and nice as Dawn is, her word over the internet or even on paper isn't an obligation for the insurance carriers.
The LiPo batteries are one of the only (THE only?) item that ROAR safety tests prior to approval. Now I know it's a LOOOOOONG stretch, but what if a non-ROAR approved LiPo has a catastrophic failure and causes personal injury or property damage? The VERY first thing the adjusters will comb for are "out's", situations that may have been present that mitigate or eliminate their obligation to pay. They comb the entry list for drivers who aren't ROAR members. You KNOW they'd want the battery at the heart of the problem and would be comparing it with the approved batteries on ROAR's list. What is the status of the claim if it ISN'T on ROAR's approved list? Don't know? Me either. My concern is, though, that I don't have the money in my pocket to cover re-building the Shrine Auditorium (nor do any of the folks I race with) where we race and you can bet that their attorney will be naming names on their lawsuit to have the damages covered. You can also bet my name would be right near the top of the list since I'm the person in the club who is their direct contact and makes all our scheduling and other arrangements with them.
Again, is this a LIKELY scenario? Nope. Is it possible? Absolutely. Can the question/concern be eliminated without any undue injury to anyone? Yup...just require that everyone's LiPo battery is on the approved list and that ALL charging and other safety requirements specified for LiPo batteries(containment device, buckets of sand, tech for voltage, etc) are followed. As long as the rules are enforced evenly and consistently there's no one at any sort of disadvantage from them, competitively or economically.
We have, as a club, had this very discussion. We allow non-ROAR approved 19T motors, for example, but we have decided as a group that as far as LiPo batteries we have to stick to the ROAR list. To do otherwise exposes us (as limited as that exposure may be) unneccessarily to financial loss.
I will talk to Dawn, though, and the insurance representative and see if I can get WRITTEN clarification on the above. I'm kind of doubting we'd get anything of that nature from the insurance folks, and nice as Dawn is, her word over the internet or even on paper isn't an obligation for the insurance carriers.
01-30-2009, 06:54 AM
#4158
Very good points about the non-roar lipo's, I never thought about it from a insurance/liability stand point. The point I was trying to make was that it would be nice to have a readily availible low cost lipo for the beginners (and those on a tight budget switiching to lipo from nimh) without going through mail order. I'm a firm beliver on supporting the local hobby shop/race track whenever possible. 
01-30-2009, 09:01 AM
#4159
Bite the bullet and buy roar approved packs. Be 100% usvta compliant and no worries. 
I personally wouldn't buy a 2400 pack cause I have to add enough lead already...
I personally wouldn't buy a 2400 pack cause I have to add enough lead already...
01-30-2009, 10:33 AM
#4160
This link contains some photos from the Snowbirds. There are some good pictures of VTA cars in action from Thursday.
http://rcactionpics.com/2009/rcactio..._thursday.html
http://rcactionpics.com/2009/rcactio..._thursday.html
01-30-2009, 12:36 PM
#4162
Tech Adept
iTrader: (17)
It's S/K
It's the S/K oval spec oval class.
Here's a link to the rules http://shop.kskts.com/product.sc?cat...7&productId=49
http://www.snowbirdnationals.com/ClassPressRelease.htm
01-30-2009, 03:47 PM
#4163
The problem is that once you start making exceptions for this or that you've started down the slippery slope that manages to kill pretty much every racing program that starts down it. Next it's motors. Then the tires (those HPI tires/wheels sure are expensive...). I think Doug sees that and will maintain a steady hand on the tiller.
However, they are entry-level starter LiPo packs—not really racing packs—but for $30 and the low output, who should complain about them? If anyone dipping their feet into the shallow end of the LiPo conversion wants to try them, I don't see any harm in the usage for local USVTA racing. They aren't going to be a performance advantage (but you had better make weight with them). The batteries in the USVTA rules—unlike tires, bodies and the 21.5 motor—are not specified parts, and are open to racer's choice, under the 5000mah ceiling.
So until the ROAR LiPo clause mysteriously disappears from our rules (I'd like to not have to reply on other organizations and approvals for our rules, if at all possible), let's say that the official-unofficial USVTA position on the Orion/Peak 2400 pack is that they are not approved by the letter of the rule, but they are legitimate for USVTA racing.
How's that for a political answer?The only thing I would say for sure is don't bring one to the Nationals (or any other big race, for that matter) in April if you are using one at local races.
01-30-2009, 06:39 PM
#4164
WATCH OUT!
I believe I just read something that sounded alot like a trip down the slippery slope! If you allow Orion 2400s then what is next any 21.5. Clubs should do and usually do what they want . That does not need to be sanctioned by a bend in the official rules. Apex, you have been a strong leader here. You have bent but not broken. Stand firm!
01-30-2009, 07:40 PM
#4168
As written above, our concern is more from a liability standpoint. Not a huge risk, to be sure, but one that we've elected to eliminate. If you're insured via other means I see no problem...other than how do you tell one kid "you can't run this non-approved battery...it's a cheap Chinese knock-off, or at least I think it is..." when you're allowing someone else to run a non-approved battery. Yeah, the Orions are probably the highest quality battery in RC (or as high as anybody), even the non-approved 2400, but a very clear line has suddenly become vague because enough people whine loud and long enough?
01-30-2009, 08:26 PM
#4169
What If I had A cheap lesser quality non approved 21.5 could I run it. The line needs drawn and adhered too for all, any inconsistency leave the door open for the next deviation.
