ROAR B/L motor Rules debate thread
01-16-2008, 06:18 AM
#933
Tech Champion
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so.. home from the meeting.... We met most of the evening Friday, all day Saturday and took a little break to visit the AMA convention next door and then all day Sunday. The minutes will be posted on the website shortly, (as soon as Corey gets his email).. and you will see nine pages of information we widdled down to something readable.
But.. you want to know..
Yes, 27T and 17.5 is the stock class of racing in ROAR competition and ... This will slow down the stock class of racing as it needs to be and maintain the stock brushed motor use at most events, especially off road, we are assuming.
19T and 10.5 is the Super Stock class. (formerly called 19T class) We recommend local programs stick with what they are doing that is working for their integration of brushed and brushless motor racing. In 2009, 13.5 will be the Super Stock class.
I'm sure there are criticisms, questions and probably even a little disappointment out there. We took the future of ROAR racing, our membership and our affliates into consideration. I'm sure you all can understand the position the Excom was placed in and the decisions were not made hastily. This thread was extremely insightful and educational for me and I thank each of you.
AND.. GEORGE CHERRY.. LIPO 7.4V BATTERIES ARE APPROVED IN ALL 6 CELL SUB-C 7.2V CLASSES.... SO WHERE IS YOUR MEMBERSHIP FORM??
But.. you want to know..
Yes, 27T and 17.5 is the stock class of racing in ROAR competition and ... This will slow down the stock class of racing as it needs to be and maintain the stock brushed motor use at most events, especially off road, we are assuming.
19T and 10.5 is the Super Stock class. (formerly called 19T class) We recommend local programs stick with what they are doing that is working for their integration of brushed and brushless motor racing. In 2009, 13.5 will be the Super Stock class.
I'm sure there are criticisms, questions and probably even a little disappointment out there. We took the future of ROAR racing, our membership and our affliates into consideration. I'm sure you all can understand the position the Excom was placed in and the decisions were not made hastily. This thread was extremely insightful and educational for me and I thank each of you.
AND.. GEORGE CHERRY.. LIPO 7.4V BATTERIES ARE APPROVED IN ALL 6 CELL SUB-C 7.2V CLASSES.... SO WHERE IS YOUR MEMBERSHIP FORM??
01-16-2008, 06:20 AM
#935
Tech Regular
"Stock - no intention of changing the 27T popularity and I doubt it will. The 17.5 has its advantages and some disadvantages. For on road, I feel this is a close call.. for off road.. I see 27T brushed being used more. But, that's the testing I have seen at the track where I live."
From Dawn, on the previous page.
01-16-2008, 06:26 AM
#936
yes... I had expected the minutes to be posted last evening but they were not - so my posting would appear to be an official announcement.
yes - brushed and brushless motors may compete against eachother.
yes - this is in effect for Hobbyplex nats. We have changed a few rules in that aspect as well with something called 'stated product' instead of handout product. The entry flyer will announce what motor is legal for the event and you can purchase at the hobby shop at a discounted price as we are working with the MFG's or you can bring yourself. All items must be teched prior to racing and registered per participant.
yes - you can run a 17.5 or 27T at the event and switch if you want.
yes - lipo rules are in place. There is a thread started here that I posted the pages to be formatted into the rule book.
no - there are no esc control rules.
yes - brushed and brushless motors may compete against eachother.
yes - this is in effect for Hobbyplex nats. We have changed a few rules in that aspect as well with something called 'stated product' instead of handout product. The entry flyer will announce what motor is legal for the event and you can purchase at the hobby shop at a discounted price as we are working with the MFG's or you can bring yourself. All items must be teched prior to racing and registered per participant.
yes - you can run a 17.5 or 27T at the event and switch if you want.
yes - lipo rules are in place. There is a thread started here that I posted the pages to be formatted into the rule book.
no - there are no esc control rules.
01-16-2008, 07:01 AM
#938
Great job ROAR! I think you guys looked at the issues and made some good decisions. These were not easy to make and with lots of debate I am sure we can now move on with the legal racing of BL motors in "spec" classes (sorry that was for you Dawn! 
) Let the racing continue! 
) Let the racing continue!
01-16-2008, 07:02 AM
#939
Great job ROAR! I think you guys looked at the issues and made some good decisions. These were not easy to make and with lots of debate I am sure we can now move on with the legal racing of BL motors in "spec" classes (sorry that was for you Dawn! ) Let the racing continue!
) Let the racing continue! (you know I hate that term... LOL)
01-16-2008, 07:10 AM
#940
Dawn, just curious on the thinking behind the super stock class? Was it to allow people to continue to use the life of their 10.5 / 19T motors for a year before changing it to 13.5 in 2009? Seems like it makes a lot of sense but I was wondering if that was the reason.
You realize you have made RC history. Your name will always be associated with the BL / Lipo approvals. Lets (for your sake) hope it all works out!
. In all seriousness. I think you have done the right thing.
You realize you have made RC history. Your name will always be associated with the BL / Lipo approvals. Lets (for your sake) hope it all works out!
. In all seriousness. I think you have done the right thing.
01-16-2008, 07:21 AM
#941
For most poeple a 10.5 in mod will be an great motor but the nature of poeple will always want more speed. Just pointing out that throwing out your 10.5BL motors is not necessary. For most tight indoor tracks this will still be a great motor. This ruling about kills all current fixed timing machine wound 19T motors but with all changes like this you cannot make everyone happy. Again I agree with the new rules and we should be able to burn up our 19T motors this year in the JBRL and Nats!
(I couldn't resist Dawn!
)
(I couldn't resist Dawn!
)
01-16-2008, 07:22 AM
#942
HOW DO WE KNOW when a 17.5 IS ROAR LEGAL?
What defines a 17.5 motor and how do we know when they are legal to use? Currenlty i look for the tagged arm,ROAR stamp,locked timing and marking on the arm shaft to tech a 27 or 19T motor. How do we know a 17.5 is ROAR legal? Will there be specifications for motor builders to build to?? To avoid a company slapiing on a 17.5 decal on the can of a 15.5... or lower...
Thanks
What defines a 17.5 motor and how do we know when they are legal to use? Currenlty i look for the tagged arm,ROAR stamp,locked timing and marking on the arm shaft to tech a 27 or 19T motor. How do we know a 17.5 is ROAR legal? Will there be specifications for motor builders to build to?? To avoid a company slapiing on a 17.5 decal on the can of a 15.5... or lower...
Thanks
01-16-2008, 07:24 AM
#943
On top of that, your local racing can still run a 10.5 class if they so choose.
For most poeple a 10.5 in mod will be an great motor but the nature of poeple will always want more speed. Just pointing out that throwing out your 10.5BL motors is not necessary. For most tight indoor tracks this will still be a great motor. This ruling about kills all current fixed timing machine wound 19T motors but with all changes like this you cannot make everyone happy. Again I agree with the new rules and we should be able to burn up our 19T motors this year in the JBRL and Nats!
(I couldn't resist Dawn!)
(I couldn't resist Dawn!
)
01-16-2008, 07:24 AM
#944
If I might offer a question/suggestion re: tech on BL motors...
I've been visiting with someone in whose club racing there were a couple folks running their 10.5 class were suddenly a fair bit faster. One of them hadn't even taken the sticker off his 9.5 motor so that wasn't a tech problem at all. The others motor, though, didn't display a sticker describing the number of winds. No need to mention the particular motor mfr because I believe they're ALL succeptible to this.
This ain't like the brushed days when for quick-n-dirty you looked for the tag on the arm. In the case of BL all the arms are the same...are we going to somehow create a tag for the winds inside a BL can?
Novak has an excellent tutorial on their site that explains teching a BL motor using an LCR meter to measure inductance. They then go on to give the inductance specs for all their motors. The LCR meters aren't cheap enough that every racer would want one for his or her pit box, but they're not so expensive that pretty much any track or club could have one to maintain the integrity of BL racing. Should it be a requirement that all BL motor manufacturers/marketers have that inductance information prominently listed on, say, the ROAR site under Tech or some such? I'm not overly tech/electronics saavy but I'm guessing that a 10.5 motor regardless who makes it would probably have similar readings if it's on the level, but I don't see how it's a particular hardship on ANYBODY to require that information be readily available to event organizers everywhere.
I've been visiting with someone in whose club racing there were a couple folks running their 10.5 class were suddenly a fair bit faster. One of them hadn't even taken the sticker off his 9.5 motor so that wasn't a tech problem at all. The others motor, though, didn't display a sticker describing the number of winds. No need to mention the particular motor mfr because I believe they're ALL succeptible to this.
This ain't like the brushed days when for quick-n-dirty you looked for the tag on the arm. In the case of BL all the arms are the same...are we going to somehow create a tag for the winds inside a BL can?
Novak has an excellent tutorial on their site that explains teching a BL motor using an LCR meter to measure inductance. They then go on to give the inductance specs for all their motors. The LCR meters aren't cheap enough that every racer would want one for his or her pit box, but they're not so expensive that pretty much any track or club could have one to maintain the integrity of BL racing. Should it be a requirement that all BL motor manufacturers/marketers have that inductance information prominently listed on, say, the ROAR site under Tech or some such? I'm not overly tech/electronics saavy but I'm guessing that a 10.5 motor regardless who makes it would probably have similar readings if it's on the level, but I don't see how it's a particular hardship on ANYBODY to require that information be readily available to event organizers everywhere.
01-16-2008, 07:31 AM
#945
10.5 I am pretty comfortable with my level of car control. Certainly more throttle-control needed than Stock, but forgiving of "hammer finger" too.
6.5 things are getting pretty on-edge and I start feeling like I'm "hanging on". Quite a bit of throttle-control required.
4.5 fuggedaboudit! Too much motor for my meager driving skills.