GT class--buggy-based on road!
11-13-2007, 12:50 PM
#151
Jspeed, I am curious as to how the .21 buggy engines (like the P5) compaired to the stock IGT engine. The stock IGT engine is a .27 isn't it? I would expect that many of the RTR truggy engines (like the Axial .28) would be on a par with a good .21 buggy engine in this class. What did you see on the track?
11-13-2007, 12:56 PM
#152
I could be wrong but I think the DTM cars are not buggy based chassis. I kind of remember that they had different wheelbase dimensions, suspension design & geometry.
In any case the rules we’ve made for the IGT Stock & IGT Super Stock are for Kyosho chassis only, ala IROC.
The “GT Open” class is intended for buggy based chassis from manufacturers that at this time are not participating in the RC Pro “GT” racing program.
This is similar to in NASCAR, if you show up to Daytona with a “Hendrix-built” Saab to NASCAR specs they won’t let you race it, even if it conforms to NASCAR specs because the manufacture hasn’t reached an agreement with NASCAR.
Now when Saab realizes the marketing value of being part of the program, they can join the program they can enjoy the benefits the program has to offer.
It works well for NASCAR, IRL and F1 racing. The biggest negatives I've found so far have been from manufacturer’s representatives that want to have their cake to eat and feel we should serve it up for free or at the expense of Kyosho.
In any case the rules we’ve made for the IGT Stock & IGT Super Stock are for Kyosho chassis only, ala IROC.
The “GT Open” class is intended for buggy based chassis from manufacturers that at this time are not participating in the RC Pro “GT” racing program.
This is similar to in NASCAR, if you show up to Daytona with a “Hendrix-built” Saab to NASCAR specs they won’t let you race it, even if it conforms to NASCAR specs because the manufacture hasn’t reached an agreement with NASCAR.
Now when Saab realizes the marketing value of being part of the program, they can join the program they can enjoy the benefits the program has to offer.
It works well for NASCAR, IRL and F1 racing. The biggest negatives I've found so far have been from manufacturer’s representatives that want to have their cake to eat and feel we should serve it up for free or at the expense of Kyosho.
You are correct that the DM-One (actually called) is a 1/7th scale compared to the IGT 1/8th scale. But, it was out on the market before the Kyosho car.
So, that book is now closed.
It seems like many of us are in agreement about the direction of the IGT class, Spec box stock and Open. Set the rules and either the experienced racers that are going to participate follow the rules or don't run the classes. Can't get any more simple than that.
11-13-2007, 01:02 PM
#153
Duneland,
The stock IGT engine is very strong on its own. I think RC Cars's tests got the car up to 50mph, which is pretty good when you consider the weight involved.
The IGT cars equipped with some of the more balistic engines gives them an unfair advantage accross the RPM range. We have to remember that some of these hot-rod hand modified & blueprinted engines can make 20% to 50% more power.
There are some guys that drag race these IGT cars and they're in the 60mph to 70mph range. So putting them all into the same class is like racing an F16 against a cropduster.
The stock IGT engine is very strong on its own. I think RC Cars's tests got the car up to 50mph, which is pretty good when you consider the weight involved.
The IGT cars equipped with some of the more balistic engines gives them an unfair advantage accross the RPM range. We have to remember that some of these hot-rod hand modified & blueprinted engines can make 20% to 50% more power.
There are some guys that drag race these IGT cars and they're in the 60mph to 70mph range. So putting them all into the same class is like racing an F16 against a cropduster.
11-13-2007, 01:10 PM
#154
Jspeed,
You are correct that the DM-One (actually called) is a 1/7th scale compared to the IGT 1/8th scale. But, it was out on the market before the Kyosho car. So, that book is now closed. It seems like many of us are in agreement about the direction of the IGT class, Spec box stock and Open. Set the rules and either the experienced racers that are going to participate follow the rules or don't run the classes. Can't get any more simple than that.
You are correct that the DM-One (actually called) is a 1/7th scale compared to the IGT 1/8th scale. But, it was out on the market before the Kyosho car.
So, that book is now closed. It seems like many of us are in agreement about the direction of the IGT class, Spec box stock and Open. Set the rules and either the experienced racers that are going to participate follow the rules or don't run the classes. Can't get any more simple than that.Our experiment with these classes if being supported by Kyosho. We don’t want to alienate any manufacturer’s product, but at the same time, why should anyone ride on their dime?
An added bonus for owners of the IGT is they can run their modified cars in both our Super Stock & Open classes which will give them twice the racing time at any of our events featuring the GT cars.
11-13-2007, 01:35 PM
#155
Tech Adept
.......and it's a good thing because most 750's will trash a Busa on the race track.
11-13-2007, 01:47 PM
#156
Tech Adept
I tell him he can race today, but his car is not legal for any of our classes. If he would like to race again in the future, here are our rules.
Anyone who shows up out of the blue without knowing what the class rules are has no excuse—especially with a converted car that isn't legal ANYWHERE.
No, you tell him that the class rules are what they are. If he wants to continue to race in that class, he needs to follow the rules and replace the worn original engine with a new cheap P/S or a complete engine. Simple...............................
......................
Yes, it IS promoting racing. Just not free-for-all rules that try to fit everyone into a class somewhere. That's not any different than ANY form of organized racing anywhere, full or scale.
Build it and they will come. Don't wait for everyone to show up to see what they have, then make a class around them.
Anyone who shows up out of the blue without knowing what the class rules are has no excuse—especially with a converted car that isn't legal ANYWHERE.
No, you tell him that the class rules are what they are. If he wants to continue to race in that class, he needs to follow the rules and replace the worn original engine with a new cheap P/S or a complete engine. Simple...............................
......................
Yes, it IS promoting racing. Just not free-for-all rules that try to fit everyone into a class somewhere. That's not any different than ANY form of organized racing anywhere, full or scale.
Build it and they will come. Don't wait for everyone to show up to see what they have, then make a class around them.
Apex my man.....you have got it together!!!
11-13-2007, 02:24 PM
#158
Personally, I don't believe this is a class that should be open to "open" or modified cars or motors. I think a single class added to a day of nitro racing plenty, and three classes is a LOT for a non on-road specific class. It's a BUGGY-based class, and in my opinion, a very specific audience that will be interested in a class like this.
I hope I'm wrong and the class explodes, brings a ton of new racers into the fold and creates a whole new market of gas racing, but I don't think it has that potential. Blowing three new classes on race day on a buggy chassis is a lot to bite off at one time, unless you are all on the track at the same time (a la an SCCA Regional or National club race).
Again, that's just my opinion, and the input is really only pointed towards the potential MWS class.
doug
I hope I'm wrong and the class explodes, brings a ton of new racers into the fold and creates a whole new market of gas racing, but I don't think it has that potential. Blowing three new classes on race day on a buggy chassis is a lot to bite off at one time, unless you are all on the track at the same time (a la an SCCA Regional or National club race).
Again, that's just my opinion, and the input is really only pointed towards the potential MWS class.
doug
11-13-2007, 03:16 PM
#159
I've been thinking alot about what has been said here. I was the vice-pres. of our club this year and i'm pretty sure I can start this class next year since a couple people (including my wife and another racers girlfriend) have expressed interest in starting a pure beginner class. For our club, I think we will go with the bone-stock only class for next year. If the class picks up and people express an interest in running an open class the year after, we may consider it but I just don't think it's worth trying to do for next year, at least for our track.
Some spectators i've talked to have expressed interest in getting into the hobby but they are new to r/c and therefor, they aren't going to bring a Inferno with a Collari to the track. With our track, i've never seen someone show up with something that they couldn't race. And, we are very strict about having at least 3 cars to run. So for next year, if someone showed up with a Inferno with an aftermarket motor, we would simply tell them that if 2 other cars show up with non-stock motors, they can run in a class of their own, just like we would tell anyone that would happen to show up with something we aren't racing. I don't think this is such a big issue. It's a good idea that can work if handled the right way.
Some spectators i've talked to have expressed interest in getting into the hobby but they are new to r/c and therefor, they aren't going to bring a Inferno with a Collari to the track. With our track, i've never seen someone show up with something that they couldn't race. And, we are very strict about having at least 3 cars to run. So for next year, if someone showed up with a Inferno with an aftermarket motor, we would simply tell them that if 2 other cars show up with non-stock motors, they can run in a class of their own, just like we would tell anyone that would happen to show up with something we aren't racing. I don't think this is such a big issue. It's a good idea that can work if handled the right way.
11-13-2007, 05:02 PM
#160
Hey JetMd, the guys up here are getting this GT bug also. Many of the bro's are buying the DM1s' and GT's. At our home track (Blue Diamond) there was a run what you brung class. There were a few buggy based cars out there. I recall at 301, there were a few out there also. Now at your track your are saying people are getting interested. It will happen. I might have to go shopping during Tax return time for a Kyosho or another Ofna. I gotta feeling that my snakes might suffer from lack of attention again this year.
11-13-2007, 05:24 PM
#161
Barry,
The “my diff leaks oil” guy has never been on the same page on this thread. He seems to show up every once in a while says something oppositional for the sake of doing it.
Apex,
I understand your point and for the MWS maybe that’s the way you guys might want to go.
I see the need for a Super Sport or Mod or Open class for the IGT. I’d bet money that about half of the thousand or so of them in America today; already have ballistic engines that have replaced the stock power units. So since we want to get them racing on America’s tracks, we realize they’re out there.
If you really want to learn more about who is racing them now search the other RC forums and you’ll see all kinds’ custom IGT cars. There are even some guys that are running brushless/lipo set-up in them too.
Ghetto teacher,
I plan on racing my 1/8 scale and an IGT all year long down here. The IGT cars require so little maintenance compared to the belt cars and they hardly break. They’re all about driving and having fun.
The “my diff leaks oil” guy has never been on the same page on this thread. He seems to show up every once in a while says something oppositional for the sake of doing it.
Apex,
I understand your point and for the MWS maybe that’s the way you guys might want to go.
I see the need for a Super Sport or Mod or Open class for the IGT. I’d bet money that about half of the thousand or so of them in America today; already have ballistic engines that have replaced the stock power units. So since we want to get them racing on America’s tracks, we realize they’re out there.
If you really want to learn more about who is racing them now search the other RC forums and you’ll see all kinds’ custom IGT cars. There are even some guys that are running brushless/lipo set-up in them too.
Ghetto teacher,
I plan on racing my 1/8 scale and an IGT all year long down here. The IGT cars require so little maintenance compared to the belt cars and they hardly break. They’re all about driving and having fun.
11-13-2007, 05:43 PM
#162
Ok.. I see..
But the point is if we can have a set of common rules for say 3 classes, it really is up to your area of which classes you want to support, maybe it is only stock, fine, but you have a set of rules that will fly in other markets also.... or the same with mod....
No one is saying add three new nitro classes at your local track, but here are 3 different classes to select from... with common rules....
But the point is if we can have a set of common rules for say 3 classes, it really is up to your area of which classes you want to support, maybe it is only stock, fine, but you have a set of rules that will fly in other markets also.... or the same with mod....
No one is saying add three new nitro classes at your local track, but here are 3 different classes to select from... with common rules....
11-13-2007, 07:40 PM
#163
Jspeed, I plan on heading down to the Tampa area this winter. The parents have a house down there. I guess I'll get a GT or that Ofna 1/8 and hang with you guys. Which one is the better fo the two?
11-14-2007, 05:52 AM
#165
RC Pro Series GT Rules
RC Pro “Rally” Rules
These are new classes and as such the rules are being developed. Our goal with the spec class is to find a low cost entry class to get new racers interested in the onroad side of our sport.
Kyosho Inferno GT Spec Class Rules:
*If it doesn’t say you can do it, you CAN’T DO IT.
Car Rules
1. Upgrade brakes.
2. Upgrade radio gear (servos, linkage, receiver and radio).
3. Add sway bars (front and rear)
4. Shock and diff oils can be changed.
5. Any shock position, caster position, ect., provided by the car (no drilling holes).
6. You may use a starter box, but pull-start must remain intact and operational.
7. Clutch gearing may change (14-15 first gear, 17-18-19 second gear, kyosho only).
8. Replacing threaded links with turnbuckles.
9. Kyosho V-slick in any of the 3 compounds for tires. Treaded kit tires are allowed.
Tires must be fully covered by the body. Treaded kit tires may be used. Tires must be
rubber. NO foam tires. Tire must be used as produced by the manufacturer.
Body Rules
Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies)
1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line.
2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface.
3. Side window may be cut open for fueling.
4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”.
5. Rear window may be cut out.
6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor.
7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes.
8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis.
These are the only changes allowed to the vehicle from the box.
Kyosho Inferno GT SS Class Rules:
Car Rules
1. Must be Kyosho GT or Kyosho buggy converted to a GT car.
2. Engine may be changed to any .28 or smaller engine.
3. Pipe may be changed to any legal pipe. Exhaust pipe must be covered by the body.
Max Stinger diameter - 8mm
Max stinger length 15mm
Must meet standard decibel level rule. The maximum sound level is 85 decibels, measured at a ninety degree angle to the side of the car from a distance of 30 feet, 3 feet above the ground, with the car at maximum throttle and at all speeds.
4. Any chassis or suspension upgrade is legal providing the vehicle maintains the proper measurements as listed below..
5. Wheelbase
Minimum 270mm - Maximum 330mm
6. Minimum weight 112oz. (7lbs) Dry (no fuel).
7. Kyosho V-slick in any of the 3 compounds for tires. Tire must be used as produced by the manufacturer.
Maximum tire diameter - 3.6 in.
Maximum width - 1.9 in.
Tires must be fully covered by the body. Treaded kit tires may be used. Tires must be rubber. NO foam tires.
8. Fuel system- Maximum capacity 125cc this includes fuel tank, filter(s) and fuel line from tank to carb.
9. Center diff - may be solid spool or diff. Vehicle may be 1 or 2 speed.
Body Rules
Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies)
1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line.
2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface.
3. Side window may be cut open for fueling.
4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”.
5. Rear window may be cut out.
6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor.
7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes.
8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis.
1/8 Rally Open Rules:
Car Rules
1. May be any 1/8 buggy converted to run as a GT type car.
2. May use any engine .28 or smaller.
3. Pipe may be changed to any legal pipe. Exhaust pipe must be covered by the body.
Max Stinger diameter - 8mm
Max stinger length 15mm
Must meet standard decibel level rule. The maximum sound level is 85 decibels, measured at a ninety degree angle to the side of the car from a distance of 30 feet, 3 feet above the ground, with the car at maximum throttle and at all speeds.
4. Wheelbase
Minimum 270mm - Maximum 330mm
6. Minimum weight 112oz. (7lbs) Dry (no fuel).
7. Any tire built for 1/8 rally type racing. FOAM tires OK. Tire may be slick or treaded. No sectioning, narrowing or cutting of the tire carcass allowed. Grooving or sipping is allowed. Any inner foam is allowed.
Maximum tire diameter - 3.6 in.
Maximum width - 1.9 in.
Tires must be fully covered by the body.
8. Fuel system- Maximum capacity 125cc this includes fuel tank, filter(s) and fuel line
from tank to carb.
9. Center diff - may be solid spool or diff. Vehicle may be 1 or 2 speed.
Body Rules
Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies)
1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line.
2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface.
3. Side window may be cut open for fueling.
4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”.
5. Rear window may be cut out.
6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor.
7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes.
8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis.
These are new classes and as such the rules are being developed. Our goal with the spec class is to find a low cost entry class to get new racers interested in the onroad side of our sport.
The GT SS class is a step up from the spec class to allow for racers who want to go faster once they feel they are ready.
The Rally Open class is for those racers who have offroad buggies and want to try onroad for a reasonable price. A typical offroad buggy will need to change tires, install a front bumper under the body to help support the body and install a full body on the car. Roughly $100 to change a buggy over.
The SS & Rally Open class may be combined but scored separately at certain events depending on number of entries.
Races may be ran on all paved tracks or a combination of paved and dirt/grass tracks.
Qualifiers may be 5 minutes or more.
Mains may be 5 minutes or more.
Last edited by Jspeed; 11-14-2007 at 11:29 AM.