Should manufacturers be prevented from sponsoring stock brushless drivers?
07-03-2007, 06:15 PM
#76
Tech Regular
iTrader: (4)
Most of 'em put the best of the best on the shelf for you to buy, because their team guys could trade you motors and still beat you!!
Being sponsored once my self, I can tell you for a fact that this goes on. Maybe not EA or lameoutgarrett, I don't personally know how they run their operations, but there are companies that do this. This is the dirty little secret of our hobby. No one likes to talk about it. But, it is the truth. Bragging rights are important to companies, Not just RC either. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.
That being said, sponsored guys are a great group of guy's. They are willing to help out racers and promote the products they run. Nothing wrong with that. But you gotta wonder about all this talk about brushed motor and batteries being equal, when those same things that make brushless and lipo appealing. Not to be pointing fingers, just thinking.
Last edited by gezer2u; 07-03-2007 at 06:16 PM. Reason: Typo
07-04-2007, 09:06 AM
#77
Some of the discussion boggles the mind....................
Why is everyone obsessed with separating the good drivers from the mediocre. The only way you will ever improve is to run with the sponsored drivers on a regular basis. Im not just referring to watching them navigate the course but the sponsored guys for the most part are the most helpful at the track, they will quite readily get into a discussion with you about your setup what could be changed to shave 1/10ths off your lap times and generally help YOU become a better driver/mechanic.
Honestly how do you improve if you dont have the requisite knowledge and you race with a bunch of people who are in the same position as you?
Other than that I agree with the no prototype discussion for club racing, if the companies want to do R&D testing they should do it in their own time and not disadvantage the club racers, although I have yet to see much of this behavior at club level.
Why is everyone obsessed with separating the good drivers from the mediocre. The only way you will ever improve is to run with the sponsored drivers on a regular basis. Im not just referring to watching them navigate the course but the sponsored guys for the most part are the most helpful at the track, they will quite readily get into a discussion with you about your setup what could be changed to shave 1/10ths off your lap times and generally help YOU become a better driver/mechanic.
Honestly how do you improve if you dont have the requisite knowledge and you race with a bunch of people who are in the same position as you?
Other than that I agree with the no prototype discussion for club racing, if the companies want to do R&D testing they should do it in their own time and not disadvantage the club racers, although I have yet to see much of this behavior at club level.
Last edited by GCracker; 07-04-2007 at 10:09 AM.
07-04-2007, 09:54 AM
#78
Tech Initiate
i havent read all the post so if some one has already stated this fact i appoligise ok guys
now i have raced big cars for years and now ive got in to rc cars the reality of the fact is racing is funand believe it or not racing cost money and lots of it be it full sized or rc cars and guys yes there is better drivers out there than you and thay are better not coz thay are sponsered but coz thay have but the yards in to get there im not sponsered but i have what i fell is up there as in specs adnyes i get a motor built nearly every big race or a new ne but i can afford it i would love so much to race against sponsered drivers
let me put it this way you are at your local track and there are no sponsered drivers there and the locals do 21 laps your putting around doing 21 laps in stock then go to a big race thinking yea im great bang first time out the pros or sponsered guys pop 25 laps on the same track what do you do
now if you raced against some of the sponsered guys pushing 23 24 25 laps previous you wont to push to go faster and believe me you will evently basicly what im saying is that competion breeds better competion
now my point number 2 if it wasent for the sponsered guys in any of our classes we would not have as good of products we have now believe it or not we have theses coz theses guys helped develped them
point three any money thrown in to our sport is good weather it is at drivers or to the local track
at our track we have a novice class that noobs run in till thay get there feet now thay can run what ever thay wont try diffrent motors etc etc till thay get what thay wont from our sport
then we have 540 were some realy good drivers run then stock and mod now
if yA DONT WONT TO RUN AGAINST THE GUYS THAT ARE BETTER run in a novice class
once again the whole point of racing is to go as fast as you can
now for the manafactures i realy believe and for roar as well all classes should have equipment and can only run that equipment if it is localy available from the dearler in that state thats how i believe it should be run and not intill thay can prove this like saying showing invoices for like 1000 cars of a perticular make sold should roar say yea its roar compliaint
thats the only way you are going to get parity in rc motor sport make them prove special motors can be had by all and then and only then will our muched loved sport be on a equal ground
im sorry if this has offended any one or the spelling is shite
now i have raced big cars for years and now ive got in to rc cars the reality of the fact is racing is funand believe it or not racing cost money and lots of it be it full sized or rc cars and guys yes there is better drivers out there than you and thay are better not coz thay are sponsered but coz thay have but the yards in to get there im not sponsered but i have what i fell is up there as in specs adnyes i get a motor built nearly every big race or a new ne but i can afford it i would love so much to race against sponsered drivers
let me put it this way you are at your local track and there are no sponsered drivers there and the locals do 21 laps your putting around doing 21 laps in stock then go to a big race thinking yea im great bang first time out the pros or sponsered guys pop 25 laps on the same track what do you do
now if you raced against some of the sponsered guys pushing 23 24 25 laps previous you wont to push to go faster and believe me you will evently basicly what im saying is that competion breeds better competion
now my point number 2 if it wasent for the sponsered guys in any of our classes we would not have as good of products we have now believe it or not we have theses coz theses guys helped develped them
point three any money thrown in to our sport is good weather it is at drivers or to the local track
at our track we have a novice class that noobs run in till thay get there feet now thay can run what ever thay wont try diffrent motors etc etc till thay get what thay wont from our sport
then we have 540 were some realy good drivers run then stock and mod now
if yA DONT WONT TO RUN AGAINST THE GUYS THAT ARE BETTER run in a novice class
once again the whole point of racing is to go as fast as you can
now for the manafactures i realy believe and for roar as well all classes should have equipment and can only run that equipment if it is localy available from the dearler in that state thats how i believe it should be run and not intill thay can prove this like saying showing invoices for like 1000 cars of a perticular make sold should roar say yea its roar compliaint
thats the only way you are going to get parity in rc motor sport make them prove special motors can be had by all and then and only then will our muched loved sport be on a equal ground
im sorry if this has offended any one or the spelling is shite
07-04-2007, 10:14 AM
#79
Why don't we abolish the "Stock" and "19t" Term and go by "Sportsman"(Stock) "Intermediate"(19t) and "Expert"(Mod) Based on you winning percentage you move up a class and/or based on your level of Sponsorship(s) I believe it could be done.(Explanation below).
This would also be a good path to remove the "Brushed vs Brushless" running in the same class problem that we are facing. (Except we would have to come up with a designated set of rules for the Brushless motors that are fair to the class(s) involved, I think to be fair to all manufacturers, designate a time table to do something like this.... Like maybe a good time that manufacturers can all prepare and re-tool. IMO this would need at least a year and a half to 2 years.)
The amount of sponsorship is limited per each class of racing... If we can get manufacturers to publish a list of their drivers and what percentages they are and it can be public record. That way, if there is ANY question, it can be looked up. Not really that hard for a team manager to send out an email monthly so that ROAR or someone can make a page on the website to list.
Of course, this brings in the "Secret" Sponsorship theory... Well, I think that there has to be a level of good faith in just about anything we do. But to be better served, make a rule that states that the company in question will be dis-allowed from ANY competitions within the organizations for 1 year or more if caught doing this and I think they might think twice about sending in a ringer.... In ROAR, the path to the worlds goes through its nationals, I don't think that a manufacturer will risk it if there is a rule like that. The penalty must be steep.
Just a few of my .02's
This would also be a good path to remove the "Brushed vs Brushless" running in the same class problem that we are facing. (Except we would have to come up with a designated set of rules for the Brushless motors that are fair to the class(s) involved, I think to be fair to all manufacturers, designate a time table to do something like this.... Like maybe a good time that manufacturers can all prepare and re-tool. IMO this would need at least a year and a half to 2 years.)
The amount of sponsorship is limited per each class of racing... If we can get manufacturers to publish a list of their drivers and what percentages they are and it can be public record. That way, if there is ANY question, it can be looked up. Not really that hard for a team manager to send out an email monthly so that ROAR or someone can make a page on the website to list.
Of course, this brings in the "Secret" Sponsorship theory... Well, I think that there has to be a level of good faith in just about anything we do. But to be better served, make a rule that states that the company in question will be dis-allowed from ANY competitions within the organizations for 1 year or more if caught doing this and I think they might think twice about sending in a ringer.... In ROAR, the path to the worlds goes through its nationals, I don't think that a manufacturer will risk it if there is a rule like that. The penalty must be steep.
Just a few of my .02's
07-04-2007, 10:15 AM
#80
Tech Initiate
there is a nother point id like to make heer guys as well
im currently running in a 540 stock class of motor or silver can type of class at one track and 27 turn stock at a nother track both were i live and why you ask
well i run 27 turn coz i believe im faster than the 540 guys at our in door circuit and i believe when ya faster you move up not dominate the class like a has been trying to rekindle his youth
now i run 540 at the other track coz the clowns there that finish in the top 5 have been doing it for 2\3 years now what has become of this is
that when i run 540 i take 3 new motors that i hand pick at my local hobbie shop coz to be up front you have to gear up theses suckers and thay usualy get burnt out theses cant be rebuilt and usualy cos about 30 aud now this is surpostly be a budget class now the guys there go through 1\2 motors a meet now the point im trying to make heer is no matter what you will do it will always turn in to how much money we can spend to get the desired result
my thought would be to keep in even is
get on to a sponser like brand x for arguments sake and say well we will plaster ya name all over the place if you sell us the club bl 13.5 motors at cost now the club can hand out the motor every one gets the same motor noe you have a fixed class but the beauty of this is its marked with a serial number at the club and if at any time the club feels like the racer has modified it it will get sent for a dyno reading and if its modified he gets allpoints taken away now you have ya fixed for fairness brand x gets trhere company some out there sponsership and every one is happy you all put brand x on the cars and you get a cheep motor now litrely you can go all out and say batteries and tires well i think all tires should be controlled as well
but you get my thought and run with that then you can decide well do i stay in this class or step up to were im free and can run with the mod guys
im currently running in a 540 stock class of motor or silver can type of class at one track and 27 turn stock at a nother track both were i live and why you ask
well i run 27 turn coz i believe im faster than the 540 guys at our in door circuit and i believe when ya faster you move up not dominate the class like a has been trying to rekindle his youth
now i run 540 at the other track coz the clowns there that finish in the top 5 have been doing it for 2\3 years now what has become of this is
that when i run 540 i take 3 new motors that i hand pick at my local hobbie shop coz to be up front you have to gear up theses suckers and thay usualy get burnt out theses cant be rebuilt and usualy cos about 30 aud now this is surpostly be a budget class now the guys there go through 1\2 motors a meet now the point im trying to make heer is no matter what you will do it will always turn in to how much money we can spend to get the desired result
my thought would be to keep in even is
get on to a sponser like brand x for arguments sake and say well we will plaster ya name all over the place if you sell us the club bl 13.5 motors at cost now the club can hand out the motor every one gets the same motor noe you have a fixed class but the beauty of this is its marked with a serial number at the club and if at any time the club feels like the racer has modified it it will get sent for a dyno reading and if its modified he gets allpoints taken away now you have ya fixed for fairness brand x gets trhere company some out there sponsership and every one is happy you all put brand x on the cars and you get a cheep motor now litrely you can go all out and say batteries and tires well i think all tires should be controlled as well
but you get my thought and run with that then you can decide well do i stay in this class or step up to were im free and can run with the mod guys
07-04-2007, 10:20 AM
#81
Tech Initiate
Why don't we abolish the "Stock" and "19t" Term and go by "Sportsman"(Stock) "Intermediate"(19t) and "Expert"(Mod) Based on you winning percentage you move up a class and/or based on your level of Sponsorship(s) I believe it could be done.(Explanation below).
This would also be a good path to remove the "Brushed vs Brushless" running in the same class problem that we are facing. (Except we would have to come up with a designated set of rules for the Brushless motors that are fair to the class(s) involved, I think to be fair to all manufacturers, designate a time table to do something like this.... Like maybe a good time that manufacturers can all prepare and re-tool. IMO this would need at least a year and a half to 2 years.)
The amount of sponsorship is limited per each class of racing... If we can get manufacturers to publish a list of their drivers and what percentages they are and it can be public record. That way, if there is ANY question, it can be looked up. Not really that hard for a team manager to send out an email monthly so that ROAR or someone can make a page on the website to list.
Of course, this brings in the "Secret" Sponsorship theory... Well, I think that there has to be a level of good faith in just about anything we do. But to be better served, make a rule that states that the company in question will be dis-allowed from ANY competitions within the organizations for 1 year or more if caught doing this and I think they might think twice about sending in a ringer.... In ROAR, the path to the worlds goes through its nationals, I don't think that a manufacturer will risk it if there is a rule like that. The penalty must be steep.
Just a few of my .02's
This would also be a good path to remove the "Brushed vs Brushless" running in the same class problem that we are facing. (Except we would have to come up with a designated set of rules for the Brushless motors that are fair to the class(s) involved, I think to be fair to all manufacturers, designate a time table to do something like this.... Like maybe a good time that manufacturers can all prepare and re-tool. IMO this would need at least a year and a half to 2 years.)
The amount of sponsorship is limited per each class of racing... If we can get manufacturers to publish a list of their drivers and what percentages they are and it can be public record. That way, if there is ANY question, it can be looked up. Not really that hard for a team manager to send out an email monthly so that ROAR or someone can make a page on the website to list.
Of course, this brings in the "Secret" Sponsorship theory... Well, I think that there has to be a level of good faith in just about anything we do. But to be better served, make a rule that states that the company in question will be dis-allowed from ANY competitions within the organizations for 1 year or more if caught doing this and I think they might think twice about sending in a ringer.... In ROAR, the path to the worlds goes through its nationals, I don't think that a manufacturer will risk it if there is a rule like that. The penalty must be steep.
Just a few of my .02's
spot on man i think manufactures should supply the local sceen before team drivers but thay can test at there own facilities i would like to see the same products when the pros get it its about time companies should steep up and throw surport to get some thing like this going
07-04-2007, 11:47 AM
#82
[QUOTE=rotorboss;3454828]
let me put it this way you are at your local track and there are no sponsered drivers there and the locals do 21 laps your putting around doing 21 laps in stock then go to a big race thinking yea im great bang first time out the pros or sponsered guys pop 25 laps on the same track what do you do
now if you raced against some of the sponsered guys pushing 23 24 25 laps previous you wont to push to go faster and believe me you will evently asicly what im saying is that competion breeds better competion
now my point number 2 if it wasent for the sponsered guys in any of our classes we would not have as good of products we have now believe it or not we have theses coz theses guys helped develped them
then we have 540 were some realy good drivers run then stock and mod now
if yA DONT WONT TO RUN AGAINST THE GUYS THAT ARE BETTER run in a novice class
once again the whole point of racing is to go as fast as you can
...............i'm trying to think of the last time i went to the drags, yep, i remember now, there were guys bracket racing, some in the 8 second class, some in the 10 second class, some running alcohol motor, some running nitro motors, if the whole point was to go as fast as you can wouldn't everyone be running nitro motors. just something to think about when making a blanket statement like that.
now look at paragraph two, if the fast guys running stock give you something to shoot for, "cause competion breeds better competion" isn't that a good thing. if those fast guys all moved to mod after hitting 21 laps, you would think your 20 laps was fast, till you went to big race. something else to think about...
let me put it this way you are at your local track and there are no sponsered drivers there and the locals do 21 laps your putting around doing 21 laps in stock then go to a big race thinking yea im great bang first time out the pros or sponsered guys pop 25 laps on the same track what do you do
now if you raced against some of the sponsered guys pushing 23 24 25 laps previous you wont to push to go faster and believe me you will evently asicly what im saying is that competion breeds better competion
now my point number 2 if it wasent for the sponsered guys in any of our classes we would not have as good of products we have now believe it or not we have theses coz theses guys helped develped them
then we have 540 were some realy good drivers run then stock and mod now
if yA DONT WONT TO RUN AGAINST THE GUYS THAT ARE BETTER run in a novice class
once again the whole point of racing is to go as fast as you can
...............i'm trying to think of the last time i went to the drags, yep, i remember now, there were guys bracket racing, some in the 8 second class, some in the 10 second class, some running alcohol motor, some running nitro motors, if the whole point was to go as fast as you can wouldn't everyone be running nitro motors. just something to think about when making a blanket statement like that.
now look at paragraph two, if the fast guys running stock give you something to shoot for, "cause competion breeds better competion" isn't that a good thing. if those fast guys all moved to mod after hitting 21 laps, you would think your 20 laps was fast, till you went to big race. something else to think about...
07-04-2007, 05:25 PM
#83
Tech Initiate
now look at paragraph two, if the fast guys running stock give you something to shoot for, "cause competion breeds better competion" isn't that a good thing. if those fast guys all moved to mod after hitting 21 laps, you would think your 20 laps was fast, till you went to big race. something else to think about...
um well im not sure what you are saying i guess you just wont to race and win stock by your self fo the rest of your life hay
better racers breed competion full stop
and people bracket race diffrent brackets at the drags i currently have a bracket car
um well im not sure what you are saying i guess you just wont to race and win stock by your self fo the rest of your life hay
better racers breed competion full stop
and people bracket race diffrent brackets at the drags i currently have a bracket car
07-04-2007, 05:33 PM
#84
Too lazy to read the whole thread, but you should as a racer be inclined to better yourself and this would mean if you are winning the stock class, you should bump up to the next level (Mod) and race with the big boys. I never understood sandbagging. You must feel like a real "winner" beating up on a bunch of beginners in STOCK class....lol
Stock is THE worst class out there and should really just be dropped.
Stock is THE worst class out there and should really just be dropped.
07-04-2007, 06:06 PM
#85
Modiflied
B for those who have skill`s and experience ...
novice & beginner`s ?
.
stock only ....
simple and the way it should B
B for those who have skill`s and experience ...
novice & beginner`s ?
.
stock only ....
simple and the way it should B
07-04-2007, 06:41 PM
#86
Tech Initiate
im unsure aout the rest of the world
but in pertrh we have at my local indoor track we have
540
stock touring 27 turn
c touring
b touring
a touring all 27 turn
i have only just started but am around stock / c touring
i only run in 540 at our other track coz i only run there a couple of times and
its a fairly competive class to run well all the sand bagging besides that
but ya rite i cant wait till the race director bumps me up though and i cant wait to run in the mod class
but in pertrh we have at my local indoor track we have
540
stock touring 27 turn
c touring
b touring
a touring all 27 turn
i have only just started but am around stock / c touring
i only run in 540 at our other track coz i only run there a couple of times and
its a fairly competive class to run well all the sand bagging besides that
but ya rite i cant wait till the race director bumps me up though and i cant wait to run in the mod class
07-04-2007, 08:20 PM
#87
Another way to look at this is that if you are on the same pace as the top dawg stock driver and you are concerned that hes not moving up for whatever reason then by all means you can move to the next class up yourself, you dont have to wait till you win stock a few times to move up.
If however you are nowhere near the pace or number of laps as the best in your class then clearly you should work on your game before complaining about the same person winning every week. If your not within 1/10th or 2/10ths of his lap times and your not finishing with the same number of laps as the top dawg then you are not ready grasshopper, keep practicing.
I am by no means the top dog in stock at the tracks I race at but Im working on it, chipping away week by week and you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as I win a race or 2 and Im happy with my setup I will be moving to 19t Spec
If however you are nowhere near the pace or number of laps as the best in your class then clearly you should work on your game before complaining about the same person winning every week. If your not within 1/10th or 2/10ths of his lap times and your not finishing with the same number of laps as the top dawg then you are not ready grasshopper, keep practicing.
I am by no means the top dog in stock at the tracks I race at but Im working on it, chipping away week by week and you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as I win a race or 2 and Im happy with my setup I will be moving to 19t Spec
07-05-2007, 09:32 AM
#88
I guess I killed that thread 
07-05-2007, 01:19 PM
#89
another way to look at it is, i'm old, i can spend all the time and money i want, i have peaked. so spending hours cutting motors and changing brushes, rebuilding diffs, and going thru tires like no tomorrow has no appeal to me. my goal is help the new guy get better, faster, its not even about winning for me anymore, its about having a good time and helping others, so if i'm ruining the hobby, well shame on me.
jonny, hows it been long time no see. come runs nats, i got a sedan all dailed in for you.
jonny, hows it been long time no see. come runs nats, i got a sedan all dailed in for you.
07-05-2007, 01:22 PM
#90
Another way to look at this is that if you are on the same pace as the top dawg stock driver and you are concerned that hes not moving up for whatever reason then by all means you can move to the next class up yourself, you dont have to wait till you win stock a few times to move up.
If however you are nowhere near the pace or number of laps as the best in your class then clearly you should work on your game before complaining about the same person winning every week. If your not within 1/10th or 2/10ths of his lap times and your not finishing with the same number of laps as the top dawg then you are not ready grasshopper, keep practicing.
I am by no means the top dog in stock at the tracks I race at but Im working on it, chipping away week by week and you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as I win a race or 2 and Im happy with my setup I will be moving to 19t Spec
If however you are nowhere near the pace or number of laps as the best in your class then clearly you should work on your game before complaining about the same person winning every week. If your not within 1/10th or 2/10ths of his lap times and your not finishing with the same number of laps as the top dawg then you are not ready grasshopper, keep practicing.
I am by no means the top dog in stock at the tracks I race at but Im working on it, chipping away week by week and you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as I win a race or 2 and Im happy with my setup I will be moving to 19t Spec
