InitialD

I think you better stick with babelfish for the moment. The english version of Kyosho's Japanese website is different from the Japanese contents. It is as though they do not want us to know what they are selling <LOL>.

calimassive

Wolf

Yeah. Maybe they don't want to sell the latest car or option to overseas. Or they want oversea customer get a special attention and information. It's quite typical with Japanese company, no matter what product they sell

Taylor-Racing

Well, I didn't say quite that, but also, I don't believe our thinking is all that far apart - read on.

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I'm not quite sure I follow you guys logic though, because on the one hand you're admitting YOU have been able to discern differences in downforce between bodies (which is obviously a critical component of any setup), but then you're coming to a conclusion that bodies don't make a substantive difference in a car's performance or lap times.

No, no, no. I said that sufficient downforce is a must have.
Given bodies with "sufficient downforce", the differences between those bodies thereafter, is less easy to judge.

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I don't see how this is so, I can take a car that is dialed with a GTP and put a Gt2 911 on and it's undriveable off the corner. I can take a car that is pushing mid-corner with a stratus and put a vauxhall on and it rotates around.

Understood, but we don't run lola bodies, so the range of downforce difference we experience is substantially smaller.

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Do I think tires and suspension settings play a more crucial role - you bet! Are all bodies the same and lead to the same lap times? Dunno - not for most serious racers.

Agreed.

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Maybe if you're a driver that doesn't turn the majority of your laps within .5 of eachother then the body doesn't matter because there isn't enough consistency to be able to tell any difference.

Well, let me put this in perspective. My driver (13 year old son) together with "jordanc" are probably within the top ten in our state. "rjl" on the other hand is within the top ten in the country (Australia) and he says that he doesn't see lots of difference between the "good' bodies.

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However I put up 20 dollars right now if anyone can find or show me a factory driver saying the choice of body shell doesnt make a difference in their car's performance.

Gimme a break. Factory drivers are probably top ten in the world. They don't buy bodies. They run whatever they want, and say whatever they are told to say. Well, within reason anyway - you know what I mean.

Actually, I might take that bet and I'll raise you another $20. I bet I can find a factory driver who will hold his hand over his heart and tell you the world is flat. OK, Ok, no disrespect intended towards any factory driver - it's just the way of the world.

And, to repeat myself - Given sufficient downforce, "I " find further differences between bodies difficult to decern. You may be super sensative to these differences.

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If it didn't make a difference someone explain why even though there are tons of crappy bodies legalized by ROAR you only see a handful at major racing events? (stratus, vauxhall mostly).

Because we all recognise the ones with sufficient downforce.

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Excuse my attitude this time but I've just never, ever seen serious racers saying body shells don't matter in RC.

Again, Well, I didn't say quite that.

calimassive

For all you Aussis, what is the most popular gas touring car in Aussi land? V1RR seems quite popular. Which is good, cause its a damn good car.

Manticore

Agree to your comments.

The P referred to AMG's statement. And actually Amg is referring to Protoform "Only" but not others. Well, there are common charactistics on protoform bodies. Big rear wing, aerodynamic bodies(the way they make daytona bodies) and in general they are all perform very similar to each others.

Tell you what, Masami set a fast record with one of the racer's tamiya car (shaft driven with poorly maintained motor) over all of the local drivers record here (HK) and that doesnt mean tamiya makes good car and bodies?!

calimassive

Manticore, so basically what ur saying is:
If youre Masami Hirosaka then the shell you use doesnt matter.

HEYALIGNMENTGUY

Patella: Do you have the chance to drive on different tracks ?
or just one, I myself drive on one track, it is considerd a small track.
Probably to small for nitro touring cars, great for electric.

But on the body issue, most guys where running the Accord or Stratus body before there was an OUT LAW class.
When this class started up and people started to run this class it was small to begin with, because the availability of LOLA Bodies and Foam tires.
Now that they are everywhere,its become just about the only class at the track,
When the big dog factory racers started to run this as well, the sactioning body IFMAR,ROAR & NORCA desided they needed to try to make rules for this class, Now that there is a guideline to follow most of the guys discarded there LOLA bodie in favor of the Stratus and Accord, wich in my opinion have very blunt noses and big rear wings.
Which make a good handleing body on my small track.
Yes I agree, A body can make a difference, but my lap time verry so much do to lap traffic and other things I cannot tell the differnce

HEYALIGNMENTGUY

Speaking of Bodies, I was watching the V8 Supercars on SPEED channel and was wondering if there are body shells just like them and do they seem to handle as well as a stratus or Accord

Taylor-Racing

In our state (Victoria) it would be mostly the V-one-R/RR with some MTX-2's and a smattering of TC3's.
Up north in New South wales they seem to have more MTX-2's than we do.
Further north again in Queensland, where AMG hails from, there again seem to be a domnance of V-one-R/RR's. They seem pretty sensible up there.

As usual, a lot has to do with the available local support for the different cars.

Taylor-Racing

Yes, they are certainly available here in Oz. They even have a utility (pick-up) version.
We have a "stock" out-of-the-box class that use them.

The V8 Supercar bodies look rather higher than I would like, though. I have no idea how they handle.
We run essentially to IFMAR rules - more like ROAR rules, actually, I think.
That is - Sedan bodies, 30mm rears, 4 port engines etc.

calimassive

Taylor,

That's good to hear that V1RR's have a good presence in Australia. In my part of the US, that would be, Southern California, V1R/RR's are not as popular. I mean there around here and there, but NTC'3's and Mugens are alot more popular. I think alot of that has to do with the fact that the Kyosho distributor in the US, and Canada as well I believe, has the market locked up on Kyosho stuff. Its stupid, Kyosho should change distributors. "Great Planes" or whatever they are called sucks as far as I can tell. What do other fellow North Americans think about this???

Taylor-Racing

Not sure what you mean by "locked up".
But, yes I find it strange that Kyosho would put up with, what appears to me, to be a much smaller market share than they could actually attain. And I would expect the US to be a much more significant market than Australia - probably more than ten times bigger.

calimassive

Well, "locked up" is a phrase that somone else complaining about the same thing used on this thread to describe it. I guess what we both meant was that; Great Planes seems to have the rights to distributing Kyosho products and only allows certain stores to carry them, namely Towerhobbies. Otherwise, it seems local LHS's have a really difficult time getting parts. I think the Tower/Great Planes partnership is responsible for this. I asked Steve Wang from Speedtech once why they didnt carry the V1R, and he said that, they've been wanting to carry the V1R and spare parts for it for a long time and he mentioned something about Towerhobbies having exclusive rights or something like that. Anyways, you get my point. It's really lame I think. Kyosho should do something about this.

Taylor-Racing

Ahhh . . OK. This is a "normal" business tactic.
The big guys (Tower) have sewn up a deal. Tower aren't motivated to push the product 'cos they have exclusivity. Great Planes, believe that they have the biggest shop in the nation covering their Kyosho business and believe they might make less money overall if they had to deal with lots of one's and two's type sales from all the smaller retailers - not to mention the fact that with more competition, the retail price would be driven down. It's just too comfortable for both parties. Also, there might be a lot more money to consider with all the other Kyosho products, meaning that the R/C cars business is small potatoes. Kyosho may be either oblivious or happy enough with the "overall" situation.
This might also explain the existance of the licenced clone V-one-R, the Trinity Reflex.
Lots of possibilities here.
As consumers, you can only vote with your feet.