Core RC 5000mah Lipos...
09-01-2007, 08:30 AM
#77
Tech Adept
09-01-2007, 04:32 PM
#80
Tech Adept
09-23-2007, 06:47 PM
#81
Thought I would ask here since it's more specific to this thread...
Do you know offhand if that balancer plug is a direct fit for the FMA Direct Cell Pro Charger...
http://www.fmadirect.com/Detail.htm?...218§ion=45
http://www.fmadirect.com/images/products/2218.jpg
Sorry I'm not familiar with Lipos but wondering what I need if I bought that charger and a Core.
Do you know offhand if that balancer plug is a direct fit for the FMA Direct Cell Pro Charger...
http://www.fmadirect.com/Detail.htm?...218§ion=45
http://www.fmadirect.com/images/products/2218.jpg
Sorry I'm not familiar with Lipos but wondering what I need if I bought that charger and a Core.
09-28-2007, 04:41 PM
#82
Hi Guys,
I'm not much for touring car setups, but I can speak difinitively and intelligently about Lipos all day long. :-)
Background on me:
I've been using lipos in aircraft since they've been available to consumers only as single cells, and Lion hard cells even before that. I came to Castle Creations in 2003 and almost immediately started product development, marketing, alpha/beta/continuing testing of the Mamba and Mamba Max products, so I'm no stranger to high power and lipo in cars from almost day one as well. I've equally used a lot of really good stuff, and a lot of crap over the years when it comes to lipos for both my own RC hobby activities and as a large part of my job at Castle.
When I came on here as Adrian's replacement, I had a little paranoia about the CORE packs. Safety is very important to me, especially in the current market where the majority of folks don't have lipo experience but are jumping on the bandwagon in exponentially increasing numbers (and welcome aboard!) as its use aproaches the mainstream. Performance is also important to me, as we are all learning to control faster and faster cars, and the crop of ESCs and motors are becoming capable of using more and more power so the output differences between packs can be very apparent to the naked eye much less under good testing equipment. And finally, my reputation in this industry is important to me as far as steering folks in the right direction when it comes to the truth about lipo and brushless power/tech/knowledge.
I was prepared for a bitter struggle between this office and the UK if the packs didn't measure up to my standards of safety, performance and cycle life. Fortunately for all involved, and to my great joy in finding out for myself through my own testing/observations, the boys in the UK absolutely did their homework on this one and have hit a home run. I love this pack, I run this pack at races and for fun, and have no personal ethical conflict recomending it to our dealers and customers. The performance in all categories is simply outstanding.
Shawn Palmer
Schumacher USA Sales Mgr.
I'll gladly answer any questions about the pack, and I'll start with the question from the last post:
I'm not much for touring car setups, but I can speak difinitively and intelligently about Lipos all day long. :-)
Background on me:
I've been using lipos in aircraft since they've been available to consumers only as single cells, and Lion hard cells even before that. I came to Castle Creations in 2003 and almost immediately started product development, marketing, alpha/beta/continuing testing of the Mamba and Mamba Max products, so I'm no stranger to high power and lipo in cars from almost day one as well. I've equally used a lot of really good stuff, and a lot of crap over the years when it comes to lipos for both my own RC hobby activities and as a large part of my job at Castle.
When I came on here as Adrian's replacement, I had a little paranoia about the CORE packs. Safety is very important to me, especially in the current market where the majority of folks don't have lipo experience but are jumping on the bandwagon in exponentially increasing numbers (and welcome aboard!) as its use aproaches the mainstream. Performance is also important to me, as we are all learning to control faster and faster cars, and the crop of ESCs and motors are becoming capable of using more and more power so the output differences between packs can be very apparent to the naked eye much less under good testing equipment. And finally, my reputation in this industry is important to me as far as steering folks in the right direction when it comes to the truth about lipo and brushless power/tech/knowledge.
I was prepared for a bitter struggle between this office and the UK if the packs didn't measure up to my standards of safety, performance and cycle life. Fortunately for all involved, and to my great joy in finding out for myself through my own testing/observations, the boys in the UK absolutely did their homework on this one and have hit a home run. I love this pack, I run this pack at races and for fun, and have no personal ethical conflict recomending it to our dealers and customers. The performance in all categories is simply outstanding.
Shawn Palmer
Schumacher USA Sales Mgr.
I'll gladly answer any questions about the pack, and I'll start with the question from the last post:
09-28-2007, 04:44 PM
#83
Nexus,
No, it's not a direct fit. FMA uses a proprietary plug there. It comes on packs from FMA and you can also get it (by special request) from on Tanic brand packs.
I'd recomend an ICE charger along with your CORE pack, and just forget the balancing leads are even on it. (that's what I do)
Shawn
No, it's not a direct fit. FMA uses a proprietary plug there. It comes on packs from FMA and you can also get it (by special request) from on Tanic brand packs.
I'd recomend an ICE charger along with your CORE pack, and just forget the balancing leads are even on it. (that's what I do)
Shawn
09-28-2007, 04:50 PM
#84
Hi Guys,
I'm not much for touring car setups, but I can speak difinitively and intelligently about Lipos all day long. :-)
Background on me:
I've been using lipos in aircraft since they've been available to consumers only as single cells, and Lion hard cells even before that. I came to Castle Creations in 2003 and almost immediately started product development, marketing, alpha/beta/continuing testing of the Mamba and Mamba Max products, so I'm no stranger to high power and lipo in cars from almost day one as well. I've equally used a lot of really good stuff, and a lot of crap over the years when it comes to lipos for both my own RC hobby activities and as a large part of my job at Castle.
When I came on here as Adrian's replacement, I had a little paranoia about the CORE packs. Safety is very important to me, especially in the current market where the majority of folks don't have lipo experience but are jumping on the bandwagon in exponentially increasing numbers (and welcome aboard!) as its use aproaches the mainstream. Performance is also important to me, as we are all learning to control faster and faster cars, and the crop of ESCs and motors are becoming capable of using more and more power so the output differences between packs can be very apparent to the naked eye much less under good testing equipment. And finally, my reputation in this industry is important to me as far as steering folks in the right direction when it comes to the truth about lipo and brushless power/tech/knowledge.
I was prepared for a bitter struggle between this office and the UK if the packs didn't measure up to my standards of safety, performance and cycle life. Fortunately for all involved, and to my great joy in finding out for myself through my own testing/observations, the boys in the UK absolutely did their homework on this one and have hit a home run. I love this pack, I run this pack at races and for fun, and have no personal ethical conflict recomending it to our dealers and customers. The performance in all categories is simply outstanding.
Shawn Palmer
Schumacher USA Sales Mgr.
I'll gladly answer any questions about the pack, and I'll start with the question from the last post:
I'm not much for touring car setups, but I can speak difinitively and intelligently about Lipos all day long. :-)
Background on me:
I've been using lipos in aircraft since they've been available to consumers only as single cells, and Lion hard cells even before that. I came to Castle Creations in 2003 and almost immediately started product development, marketing, alpha/beta/continuing testing of the Mamba and Mamba Max products, so I'm no stranger to high power and lipo in cars from almost day one as well. I've equally used a lot of really good stuff, and a lot of crap over the years when it comes to lipos for both my own RC hobby activities and as a large part of my job at Castle.
When I came on here as Adrian's replacement, I had a little paranoia about the CORE packs. Safety is very important to me, especially in the current market where the majority of folks don't have lipo experience but are jumping on the bandwagon in exponentially increasing numbers (and welcome aboard!) as its use aproaches the mainstream. Performance is also important to me, as we are all learning to control faster and faster cars, and the crop of ESCs and motors are becoming capable of using more and more power so the output differences between packs can be very apparent to the naked eye much less under good testing equipment. And finally, my reputation in this industry is important to me as far as steering folks in the right direction when it comes to the truth about lipo and brushless power/tech/knowledge.
I was prepared for a bitter struggle between this office and the UK if the packs didn't measure up to my standards of safety, performance and cycle life. Fortunately for all involved, and to my great joy in finding out for myself through my own testing/observations, the boys in the UK absolutely did their homework on this one and have hit a home run. I love this pack, I run this pack at races and for fun, and have no personal ethical conflict recomending it to our dealers and customers. The performance in all categories is simply outstanding.
Shawn Palmer
Schumacher USA Sales Mgr.
I'll gladly answer any questions about the pack, and I'll start with the question from the last post:
Just kidding Shawn. I remember your name associated with CC. It sounds like you've been working with lipos for a long time and I'll definitely be picking your brain.
09-28-2007, 04:58 PM
#85
Cool Kuzo, that's what I'm here for, so pick away at what little is left... :-)
Shawn
Shawn
09-28-2007, 05:39 PM
#86
Shawn,
I have a cellpro charger and I want to know what type of balance plugs the core lipo come with.
FYI fma sells different balance adapters.
-thunder power
-Polyquest/hyperion
-Great Planes/ Align
Also you state that a balance charger is not neccessary. I've always been told that balancing lipo's are a way to go.
I have a cellpro charger and I want to know what type of balance plugs the core lipo come with.
FYI fma sells different balance adapters.
-thunder power
-Polyquest/hyperion
-Great Planes/ Align
Also you state that a balance charger is not neccessary. I've always been told that balancing lipo's are a way to go.
09-28-2007, 05:56 PM
#87
Shawn,
I have a cellpro charger and I want to know what type of balance plugs the core lipo come with.
FYI fma sells different balance adapters.
-thunder power
-Polyquest/hyperion
-Great Planes/ Align
Also you state that a balance charger is not neccessary. I've always been told that balancing lipo's are a way to go.
I have a cellpro charger and I want to know what type of balance plugs the core lipo come with.
FYI fma sells different balance adapters.
-thunder power
-Polyquest/hyperion
-Great Planes/ Align
Also you state that a balance charger is not neccessary. I've always been told that balancing lipo's are a way to go.
This is a little off CORE topic but does the ICE have this feature?
--
Shawn.
Since the CellPro 4s only goes up to 4amps would that effect the Core 5000mah Lipo in any way? performance? Or will it just take longer to charge?
09-28-2007, 07:27 PM
#88
Hey Shawn what's up buddy?
Have fun with this crowd. Just check out the "SMC 5000 Lipo" thread to see what I mean. Some here are....let's say.... difficult.
Oh yeah... and you should start working on your own MMM... you might just have it on the market before the KC boys, LOL!!!!
Have fun with this crowd. Just check out the "SMC 5000 Lipo" thread to see what I mean. Some here are....let's say.... difficult.
Oh yeah... and you should start working on your own MMM... you might just have it on the market before the KC boys, LOL!!!!
09-29-2007, 02:58 PM
#89
The CellPro 4s uses the balance plug to charge and balance at the same time from what I understand. The real feature that I like is that you can plug a battery in and see the percentage of charge in it...
This is a little off CORE topic but does the ICE have this feature?
--
Shawn.
Since the CellPro 4s only goes up to 4amps would that effect the Core 5000mah Lipo in any way? performance? Or will it just take longer to charge?
This is a little off CORE topic but does the ICE have this feature?
--
Shawn.
Since the CellPro 4s only goes up to 4amps would that effect the Core 5000mah Lipo in any way? performance? Or will it just take longer to charge?
4 amp charge- no, other than taking longer to charge, a less than 1C rate will not hurt a lipo pack. From the testing I've done and the research/manufacturer info I've read, charge rate will have little or no affect on the discharge curve or cycle life of a quality cell until you get up into the extremely high rates. At 4 amps your rate would be .8C. Theoretically, it should take an hour and 15 minutes to charge it from completely drained.
Just for the sake of sharing opinions, I firmly believe the safety of lipoly cells will soon be much less of a factor. Maybe not in the next 6 months, but within a year or two I feel like we won't have to worry about putting them in bags or secure containers.
09-29-2007, 08:05 PM
#90
Hi zake,
(For those that don't know me already, you'll always get the truth - even if it hurts :-))
I actually don't know what the CORE Lipo balancing port crosses over to. I've even asked the UK, and they don't know either. I've been meaning to look into it and find out definitively, but time hasn't allowed me that quest just yet.
I personally LOVE the Cellpro charger, especially for folks just getting into lipo. It's litterally plug in the pack and walk away. No user error, provides Mah and voltage info, and as above, gives you an estimation of capacity left in the pack. BUT, the one downside of using it with any pack other than those specifically made for it, is that the balancing lead wires are almost always WAY too small to safely accept the Cellpro's 5+ amp charge rate. I personally would have to do a couple of test charges on empty packs with one before I'd be comfortable with that practice. It might be just fine, but I'd have to see it for myself first before I could tell anyone it would be OK for anything other than the FMA packs.
Balance charging as a whole:
I have to separate my own personal views from that of Schumacher here a bit. Personally, I think the need to balance packs (especially two cell packs) is a bunch of hooey. Imbalalance issues come from the following: 1) exceeding the pack's output capabilities, and thus exposing the minute (in a good quality pack) or sometimes egregious differences between the performance capabilities of the cells inside the pack. 2) Taking the pack continuously down to "zero" (the standard 3.0v per cell cutoff) under heavy loads either at or near the maximum discarge capacity - again, exposing and magnifying differences between the cells. Now things are very different between car use and aircraft use (car use is predominantly two cell, and I fly many aircraft with 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, and more cells) So for the sake of this argument, we're only talking about the modern 2 cell packs made specifically for cars.
With the modern ~5000mah 7.4v packs, it's just about impossible to drive a car at or beyond the battery's capabilities (100+ amps continuous) because we're talking about speeds either exceeding 60mph, and forces on the drivetrain that almost no car can absorb. Never mind the fact that 100A+ continuous capable motors and ESCs are all but non-existent in the car world. So we can eliminate cause #1 above for all but purpose built speed run cars and racing dragsters. Cause #2 is similarly easy to eliminate for much the same reasons. If you're actually working modern car lipo packs to their output limits, you're going to be burning through LOTS of ESCs and motors LONG before the pack is in any danger of deep discharge at max capability. Even the Mamba Max controller doesn't quite match the discharge capabilities of most modern car packs, and it's capabilities reach beyond almost all other car controllers, as well as all commonly used 10th scale car motors. I've had a Max system to it's absolute limits in our Menace GTR 8th scale onroad car, and the CORE lipo pack ended up at about 10deg above ambient, which directly means it wasn't even close to breaking a sweat.
So the ultimate conclusion here for the CORE pack, as well as most name brand premium car-directed 7.4v 4800mah+ packs is that short of straight up abuse, my own personal opinion remains that balancing or balance charging is completely unnecessary. If it needs to be balanced, then either you've done something wrong and damaged the pack OR you might want to look into a different brand of pack altogether?
Again, this is my own personal opinion, but it comes from many years of my own direct experience of driving lipos within, right up to, and beyond their actual capabilities as a part of my job in the industry as well as to satisfy my own personal curiosity.
Shawn
(For those that don't know me already, you'll always get the truth - even if it hurts :-))
I actually don't know what the CORE Lipo balancing port crosses over to. I've even asked the UK, and they don't know either. I've been meaning to look into it and find out definitively, but time hasn't allowed me that quest just yet.
I personally LOVE the Cellpro charger, especially for folks just getting into lipo. It's litterally plug in the pack and walk away. No user error, provides Mah and voltage info, and as above, gives you an estimation of capacity left in the pack. BUT, the one downside of using it with any pack other than those specifically made for it, is that the balancing lead wires are almost always WAY too small to safely accept the Cellpro's 5+ amp charge rate. I personally would have to do a couple of test charges on empty packs with one before I'd be comfortable with that practice. It might be just fine, but I'd have to see it for myself first before I could tell anyone it would be OK for anything other than the FMA packs.
Balance charging as a whole:
I have to separate my own personal views from that of Schumacher here a bit. Personally, I think the need to balance packs (especially two cell packs) is a bunch of hooey. Imbalalance issues come from the following: 1) exceeding the pack's output capabilities, and thus exposing the minute (in a good quality pack) or sometimes egregious differences between the performance capabilities of the cells inside the pack. 2) Taking the pack continuously down to "zero" (the standard 3.0v per cell cutoff) under heavy loads either at or near the maximum discarge capacity - again, exposing and magnifying differences between the cells. Now things are very different between car use and aircraft use (car use is predominantly two cell, and I fly many aircraft with 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, and more cells) So for the sake of this argument, we're only talking about the modern 2 cell packs made specifically for cars.
With the modern ~5000mah 7.4v packs, it's just about impossible to drive a car at or beyond the battery's capabilities (100+ amps continuous) because we're talking about speeds either exceeding 60mph, and forces on the drivetrain that almost no car can absorb. Never mind the fact that 100A+ continuous capable motors and ESCs are all but non-existent in the car world. So we can eliminate cause #1 above for all but purpose built speed run cars and racing dragsters. Cause #2 is similarly easy to eliminate for much the same reasons. If you're actually working modern car lipo packs to their output limits, you're going to be burning through LOTS of ESCs and motors LONG before the pack is in any danger of deep discharge at max capability. Even the Mamba Max controller doesn't quite match the discharge capabilities of most modern car packs, and it's capabilities reach beyond almost all other car controllers, as well as all commonly used 10th scale car motors. I've had a Max system to it's absolute limits in our Menace GTR 8th scale onroad car, and the CORE lipo pack ended up at about 10deg above ambient, which directly means it wasn't even close to breaking a sweat.
So the ultimate conclusion here for the CORE pack, as well as most name brand premium car-directed 7.4v 4800mah+ packs is that short of straight up abuse, my own personal opinion remains that balancing or balance charging is completely unnecessary. If it needs to be balanced, then either you've done something wrong and damaged the pack OR you might want to look into a different brand of pack altogether?
Again, this is my own personal opinion, but it comes from many years of my own direct experience of driving lipos within, right up to, and beyond their actual capabilities as a part of my job in the industry as well as to satisfy my own personal curiosity.
Shawn